New Dawn Fades

Sorry to be the bearer again, but it is said that the book contains a transmission from Max, and I received an email from someone who said that he began to have bad experiences when practicing from the book. I won't go into detail but it's similar to things already posted about negative effects spelled out at the top of page three. when this person wen t to India to visit with a yogi the yogi saw that black cloud by his head, realized it was connected to his problems from his new practice, and advised him to stop immeditately. So, the book is also suspect =) I don't know what Kunlun is supposed to be, but I know some nei kung. Kunlun is supposed to be nei kung, isn't it? I always thought of nei kung being entire systems and not just a couple of exercises. anyway you can pick some exercises (postures) that if people hold long enough can cause some potential freak outs, which could easily lead into what is spontaneous chi kung. Now, when I see this thing they call spontaneous chi kung it looks just like the kind of spastic flopping around, falling down, and flopping around on the floor that people do during spirit possession episodes in Voodoo or in Holy Roller rituals. In other words, this is the thing you see that is either caused by spirit possession or is a sort of invitation to spirit possession, which blends perfectly with having just been zapped with some foreign spirit energy. I'm not sure this is happening, I'm just saying how it looks to me, telling what may be, putting 2 + 2 together with some common observations and information about this deal. It seems to me that if you were going to inoculate someone with bad energy then having them do the flopping possession dance might help glue the connection to the new host. Now I think it is Ya Mu who says that his teaching incorporates a kind of spontaneous chi kung, and I feel he is a good person. So this leads me to believe that the negatives brought up by this spirit possession dance could be dealt with by a good teacher person who is there for his students (not just there for the crowded seminar and then off to the next city.), I am also certain that Ya Mu does not have any demon connections and that any energy he might give to his students is helpful. There is a goal of arriving at the formless with nei kung, but as it says in the tai chi classics one must first study the forms to arrive at the formless. Spontaneous chi kung is NOT formless chi kung. Formless chi kung can only be done by those who already know the ten thousand ways there are to move and have committed them to body memory, and they produce a very slow motion exotic dance of utmost surreal otherworldly beauty, the dance of the Taoist sorcerer, not spastic flopping around on the floor. Maybe some day the public will get to see it.

1. Then why is this 'divine' Buddha teaching a harmful practice? (Even as a beginner I recognized it to be harmful) 2. Why is he teaching it at 'Kunlun' seminars? (I'll answer probably cause later) 3. Isn't there enough in real Kunlun? Can't a person be both? I think they can. Otherwise why does one of the major schools of Taoist practice have a warning about just such a person (with exactly the same name) coming down to us from the past? I think they disagree with you, who already drank from that poisoned jar. HA! He not only does that, it's his big advertising gimmick. The question is what else does he put into people?

No, that's not me, you accidentally quoted on the wrong post (I guess).

Beware! ... of the teacher. What exactly is HE doing to you? Max's spokesperson and right hand man, the liar Mantra 68, referred to his teacher without using the words 'divine' or 'Buddha', which is good, but it appears that both his energy and Scotty's has been affected by their exposure, and the effects seem to be downward in terms of joy of life. I can feel the change in their energies.

Ralis, this should help: The Dark Side This is a link to some clear information about the teacher and his methods, I did not write it but I know who did. Max is mentioned specifically in the second part of the third post (practice Y) in that thread but the general analysis in the first two posts also applies to the situation. You will notice a mention of black "things" floating around people who do practice X, these same things have been seen around practitioners of Max's Kunlun by a yogi who had the 'eye', and it was determined to have come from the teacher. Plus, by now, some of you have heard of the story of his being a reincarnation of a demon.

One is a marketer, one is a scholar, and one is a realizer. The marketer claims divine connection, the scholar makes other claims , the realizer claims to be a student. The marketer is rude to his students, the scholar is rude to the innocent, and the realizer is a mirror which reflects rudeness back to the sender, something which doesn't happens with his few students, teachers, or fellow practitioners.

Same thing, and it doesn't even matter who wants to be on top. peace be upon her - pbuh peace be under her - pbuh same thing

What does p.b.u.h. stand for?

I don't think Buddha was so hot. He evidently was the biggest blabbermouth who ever had an enlightenment experience, and that in itself indicates some kind of problem. If he was so enlightened he would have known he was creating millions of mental jerkoffs, oh wait, he didn't create them, they already were/are a bunch of mental jerkoffs, he only attracted them. Like attracts like. I think Lao Tzu (the person or the people) was much smarter.

I didn't come here for this but I guess I just stopped by at a synchronistic time and wanted you to see what you wrote in your previous post. There is a trick that can be played on people to make the first words out of their mouths be truth no matter what they intend to say. In any case, best wishes to you and good luck with your practice. ______________________ I came to correct someone about Sai Baba. Someone stated that Sai Baba's materializations are faked. Well, that is only true sometimes. I can't be sure of his motivations, but I think sometimes he fakes materializations for people who want to think he is a fake, or possible the intended 'receiver' doesn't have what it takes to complete the 'circuit'. Maybe he's just a tricky guy that likes to keep people guessing, I never saw one of those before There is every chance that he actually does materialize some of these objects and then pretends to do a botched job of sleigh of hand with them. However you can bet your life that he does materialize things for real for some people who he likes, and that, after all, appears to not be quite as special as we might think, because I know a person who can create an energy vortex, what he calls a wormhole, and if you put things in it they will disappear, and he aint no avatar. I don't know if he can make things materialize out of the wormhole but we shall see. Maybe the stuff that disappears ends up in Sai Baba's hands

I feel very fortunate, and I don't feel deserving of it. We sure can Very good, I've done similar things a few times, experimenting with the person facing away. Actually we practice something like that in my Yueng Chuan class, trying to make people fall down who are trying to punch us, and doing it without touching them is the fun part. I think Santiago is probably more advanced than I am because I haven't gotten into the long distance stuff.

I need to make a correction here, actually I have one and a half female students, one of them is an eleven year old girl with some special healing abilities; and to ward off what the smarties are going to say I will add that I'll only teach a child if a parent is present. This is just an experiment anyway. I had to leave just now because the teacher of a class I have tonight was busy and then the other guys sort of flaked out. We couldn't get ahold of one of them so I decided to go just to tell him. Well that guy didn't show up, but while I was waiting in the lobby, about a minute after I got there, a guy and his wife wandered in and looked around a bit and then he stopped kind of close to me. I don't usually talk to strangers, but I asked him what he was looking for and he said he was looking for our class. He was just in from Michigan for the day and wanted to see his old buddies. So I got to tell him about the class being canceled and we talked for a bit. Evidently I actually went to tell him rather than the other guy. This is an example of synchronicity between those that are on the Way. Concerning starting my own thread, I had no intention of talking about my system on this forum and it just got pried out. I do though sometimes write about it on the Tea House forum. I hope we can say this is all done now, and everyone have a nice holiday season.

Hi ex weenie, I'm a Maha Butthead too I had to leave in a hurry earlier so I want to follow through here a bit. I would kind of like this thread to end for me too, but I kind of got 'stuck' here, and I think we can thank Becker for that. I just want to say that by what I wrote that happened in the Shaolin Grandmaster's class, I didn't mean to imply that he wouldn't approve of Santiago, because I think Santiago has teachers with similar abilities to mine and that the Grandmaster may well approve. Biff had asked me, in a PM, about my position on teaching, and I knew others were interested so I thought it would be best to just follow through here.

Tell the weenies not to give me crap and then I will have nothing to answer. Don't feed the troll.

No, I don't think so, too far gone along another path. I'll try to give you an idea here of how the chi kung industry looks to other high level masters. I'm currently studying with a Shaolin Grandmaster, he can make people stumble, pass out, or die from a distance, as can a couple of my other teachers, with mind power. He also knows the art of invisibility and has pushed a person through a solid concrete wall. One of my students started with him recently and they were in the Dojo and the student mentioned he was learning chi kung, and the master said in an alarmed and threatening voice: "WHO ARE YOU LEARNING IT FROM?!?!" My student said: "Steve Gray". Then the master said: "WHO DID HE LEARN IT FROM?!" He should have known because I told him before, but he's a couple years shy of being 100 so he can be forgiven for forgetting in the heat of the moment. My student answered" Fook Yueng. Then the master, suddenly relieved, said: "Well that's OK then." This will give you an idea of what one of the most advanced masters in the world feels about most chi kung systems being sold to the public.

I didn't know she was doing KAP, but if she likes it that's great, and I already knew she wasn't interested before I offered the invitation. Guess what it means - I'll spell it out for you: I'm still willing to accept the right person as a student, I have room for about one more but I prefer referrals, word of mouth, friend of friends. There's evidence of a lot of 'selective' memory around here No, I have a business and only teach chi kung as a hobby, trying to make a living by teaching a spiritual path is not for me. In fact, after two years I tell my students they don't have to pay anymore, but I don't tell them that ahead of time. No, but I would be happy to shake their hands. You cwazy I prefer real to imaginary friends, my friends in the martial arts community have so much common sense and integrity that they are great! Not to mention special abilities. That's a result, not a goal. How about a blend of both? Which side do you focus on? Wait, we already know. I have three male students and one female. Either sex is fine, I just liked her energy is all. You wouldn't want me to teach someone that I don't like, would you?

Thanks, that makes sense. I left some possibly pertinent information out: we always do our sittings after a couple of hours of moderately strenuous (yet gentle =) moving chi kung, and it was around 8:30PM. Of course the energy level in the room goes up quite a lot as we are all radiating energy and also sharing it since it is confined in the room. In our chi kung we practice indoors.

Last week I noticed something interesting. I was meditating with two students who are both young healthy fellers but on is more yang and one is more yin. We were sitting, holding the ball at tan tien level. After the meditation I massage their hands and necks, and noticed that each of us had a warm left hand and a cool right hand, and that's the first time that has happened. Any ideas?

The Point you want? Here it is: there is a saying: "When the student is ready ..." Serenblue is ready. _______________ The top chi kung master in the world only has one student.

The Moral of Auntie Sharon A teacher gave her class of 11 year olds an assignment: To get their parent to tell them a story with a moral at the end of it. The next day the kids came back and one by one began to tell their stories. Ashley said, 'My father's a farmer and we have a lot of egg-laying hens. One time we were taking our eggs to market in a basket on the front seat of the car when we hit a big bump in the road and all the eggs got broken.' 'What's the morale of that story?' asked the teacher. 'Don't put all your eggs in one basket!' 'Very good,' said the teacher. Next little Sarah raised her hand and said, 'Our family are farmers too. But we raise chickens for the meat market. One day we had a dozen eggs, but when they hatched we only got ten live chicks, and the moral to this story is, 'Don't count your chickens before they're hatched'.' 'That was a fine story Sarah.' Michael, do you have a story to share?' 'Yes. My daddy told me this story about my Aunty Sharon. Aunty Sharon was a flight engineer on a plane in the Gulf War and her plane got hit. She had to bail out over enemy territory and all she had was a bottle of whisky, a machine gun and a machete. She drank the whiskey on the way down so it wouldn't break and then she landed right in the middle of 100 enemy troops. She killed seventy of them with the machine gun until she ran out of bullets. Then she killed twenty more with the machete until the blade broke. And then she killed the last ten with her bare hands.' 'Good heavens,' said the horrified teacher, 'what kind of moral did your daddy tell you from that horrible story?' 'Stay the FUCK away from Aunty Sharon when she's been drinking.'

Sorry, I'm not very good with definitions, but I continued adding to my previous post while you wrote yours.

I agree, the idea of 'to be' enlightened is not real - except for the enlightenment experience itself, which is real, and in a lot of ways it's like a drug, including the withdrawal later, but it does ignite an alchemical change which some people put to good use and makes others go mad. You could say that while a person is having the experience that this person 'is' enlightened, but it won't last long, and while they are in this state, which can last from several hours to a day or two, it would never occur to them to talk about it, only later will they talk but then they are no longer enlightened, are they? You could say' has been', but to say 'is' is incorrect in my view. Whatever question you have, about the deepest workings of the universe, or human nature, the answer come to you, but then later you forget the answers, and then you forget to ask questions. The questions and answers only come during the withdrawal part of the experience, during the experience a person has 'no mind' or 'all in one' mind (same thng at that point), and a deep sense of peace and bliss which is contagious. Answers don't really matter.

OK, That Guy, I'll try to get serious here for a second or two. In the beginning, as my new persona, New Dawn Fades, I just came around to have a little fun and drop a gem of wisdom about practice or two, incognito, but when I did I got dumped on, a traditional Tao Bums pracice. Not that I mind that, mind you, the response to getting dumped on is: "It is an honor to be insulted by a person of your stature", and I don't mean you personally, That Guy, but that's what you say, or at least think, when it happens. So I had some time to kill so I decided to come over here and tease Santiago a bit. I never came here to advertise for students or to say I was great in any way cuz I'm not. Then mjjpecker exposed my identity so I had to put out a few wildfires. When I first started teaching, at my teacher's request, I wanted to set the world on fire and give this great gift to thousands so I tried to do a little marketing. I found that marketing a spiritual path is fraught with danger and it is best to stay hidden. In spite of wanting to help many I found it just doesn't work that way. You can teach a lot of people a little bit, or you can teach a small amount of people a lot. It is a sad and unfortunate way the world works; and my teacher advised me to just teach a few people in my garage, like he did, and like the other guy does. You can use energy to heal sick people or you can use it to create masters and healers who will go on to teach others - I chose the later path. So, where does that leave us, I got found out and so had to say I'm not here to sell. In fact, after seeing the kind of marketing that you find on this forum and the kind of people who respond to it I was completely turned off to the idea. It's sad that there are so many sincere and good people that are seekers and they have such a hard time finding a high level practice. As far as KAP is concerned, it's not my style because I come from a martial arts background, and one that is old and traditionally 'hidden', but it appears that Santiago and Mama are good people with highly cultivated energy and so I think that they are fine people to go to for more training. To Lino about empowerment and transmissions: Chi also contains information, information about who it came from. If Mama can give energy to people and they feel blissfull then that is a good sign. I do that for my students every week. When Maxifreak does his terrible thing people have some horrible experiences, that's because of the information in his energy, it's a piece of him that makes people feel so bad. I hope that helps. I have to go practice now,

ROFL, it's worth it in entertainment value alone.