spyrelx

Thanks guys, I love that site. Is that guy in the squats the yodster? Who's the babe - Mrs. Yoda? Just curious.

Pietro, Thanks for the history lesson. It's amazing the things I miss. Judging by this string of posts above, it seems that everyone has somewhat different views (1) on how Tao Bums should operate and (2) who -- if anyone -- should be in charge and (3) just about everything else. But it also seems that everyone likes the fact that it's up and running and no one (including Sean) wants to be king. So overall I think we're in pretty good shape. About money. I'd be amazed if Sean didn't loose money on this site by the end of 12 months. And if he doesn't feel like bankrolling us for another 12, then this "community" is going to be in for a little survivability test. (As the saying goes, "talk is cheap"). Again, I think I add value too, but I humbly appreciate the people who are doing the heavy lifting (i.e., time, money and skill). Lastly, you seem like a good egg. Hope you're not otta here spyrelx

First off, I want to express my appreciation, again, for all the work Sean has done on this site. This site exists, and continues to exist, because of his work. My original point was not about Sean or this site, it was about people who post reccomendations here. If you're going to reccomend something, and you've got some kind of financial connection to it, say so. That's all. It sounds like pretty much everyone agrees so let's move on. Pietro, I missed the whole thing about why people moved to this site. One day I came back to healing tao and I noticed a lot of people were here, so I started posting here. I'm not big fan of Winn, but I never felt oppressed or edited at healing tao and I don't feel so here. The fact is we ARE hosted. It's a discussion board, someone's got to host it. And the guy I see doing 99% of the lifting is Sean, so it's fine by me if he's making certain organizational and design decisions (hell, it's not only fine by me, I'm grateful for it). Regarding Sean's own financial interest in this site, I really don't care too much because the site itself isn't reccomending anything (which was my issue in the first place). It's just got some advertisements to keep it running. Neither Sean or the site is endorsing anything, as far as I can see. To sum up, I think Sean's disclosure at the bottom by PayPal is quite adequate. By all appearances this site is a labor of love rather than a money making proposition. I mean if Sean ever makes more money on this site than the cost of a Latte at Starbucks maybe he should announce it to us, but I suspect we won't be hearing an announcement like that for quite a long time. spyrelx

I'm astounded that Cleary would say this guy is the ONLY living authority. But if you know this for a fact, who am I to argue? Good pun by the way. Oh, and for my own (further) edification, what's ROTFLAMOC? (don't worry, I already assume it's a friendly insult)

Thanks to Plato (and Bill). But of course I wouldn't be me without pointing out one bit of disagreement with the Sheepish Lord. "Master Nan is the only living authority on Chinese Taoism". Uh, I think not. (And it is just this sort of hyperbole that tends to undercut your more thoughtful statements). For instance, followers of Wang Li-ping might disagree with you (see, e.g., Opening the Dragon Gate). And I'm pretty sure a guy like Thomas Cleary could name a few living authorities (and I tend to trust Mr. Cleary in these matters). In fact, enlightened beings being both knowledgable and humble, I suspect Master Nan might even disagree. But it's nice to know he's made an impression. Be well, spyrelx

I think there is a lot of truth to those six points in the article quoted above. And I read the other article by Kobutso Malone and there's some good observations there, but I fundementally disagree with Malone's overall race-centered premise. See this quote: "We may buy a book on indigenous shamanism, we may gather the feathers, the drum, the medicine bag, the herbs, the pipe, all the "required" paraphernalia... and pretend to be a shaman. We may go to someone who claims to be such a person to learn from them. But after we've done all that, after we've read everything that can be read on the subject, acquired all the props, dressed ourselves in the native clothes, painted our faces -- when we look in the mirror -- we are still a white person pretending to be someone other than who we are. We are a clumsy approximation of a shaman at best. If we study an oriental tradition we can never become an oriental person, we can not undo our past and somehow recreate a cultural heritage. In short, we are who we are and need to become used to the idea that we do not have the right to steal the heritage of another culture to satisfy our unbridled greed and arrogance." That's a remarkable thing for a "zen buddhist priest" to say, made even more remarkable by the fact that Kobutso Malone a middle aged white guy. I don't know what's going on there but I think he's gotten a bit carried away with his critique. The shopping cart aspect of modern american spirituality troubles me, as does the ego-based desire to "acquire" egolessness like one would acquire a new shade of lipstick. But, I also believe in self transformation. I believe in reinvention. Perhaps that is my cultural heritage as an American, the belief in the endless possiblility for reinvention. I think I CAN become a shaman. Not a rough approximation of one, but a real one, just like some pudgy middle aged white guy named Malone can become a zen priest. There are many paths to enlightenment. It's arrogant and wrong to say there is only one path. But it is just as arrogant and wrong to say that any one particular path can only be practiced by a particular ethnic group. Just my two cents worth. spyrelx

I've been doing the 9bwp for 3 weeks or so. I can't really say I've noticed much of anything in the way of changes (other than a certain light headedness after practice), but I'm keeping at it. In any event, has anyone had THIS experience? Whenever I do it and hold my breath I feel my pulse quite strong down around my diaphram. I mean I can actually put my finger right at the bottom of my rib cage in the center and feal my skin pulsing out. I can actually see it pulsing (I don't mean energetically, I mean physically, the skin moving). I'm a slim guy but not emaciated and it's a bit disconcerting. I feel like the influx and holding of air must be exerting a lot of pressure on my diaphram and this is the result. It doesn't hurt, and I don't feel like I'm staining anything, but it's very noticable. I've been meaning to write Bodri about it but I was wondering if anyone else has felt this. spyrelx

I've been pretty curious about David Shen but have never met him or anyone that's taken classes with him. I heard that Chia was pretty impressed with him and they collaberated a bit but I also know that Shen was saying that some of the techniques Chia/Winn were teaching that were based on his stuff were bad, watered down versions of his practices (this might have been practices dealing with urine or with breath work, I can't remember). I also know Plato (Sheepish Lord) was trying to set up a David Shen seminar but it fell through. So he might have met him/studied with him. Sorry, but that's all I know. Please let us know if you take any classes with him.

Cameron, I didn't articulate this before but I disagree with you that the tao te ching emphasizes empty mind and stillness. I'm not saying its not in there, I'm just saying that the TTC is a very obscure and poetic document -- and the chinese language is extraordinarily flexible in translation -- and all these things can make it all things to all people. For instance, I've read a few different interpretations and it's as if they are completely different books. In what I've read, I don't think there's a strong, consistent emphasis throughout on empty mind (compared to, say, much later writings of other taoists) I do agree that the TTC wasn't influenced by budhism in that it appears to be older than budhism in China. This is one of the reasons I believe that "original taoism" (my phrase) is more shamanistic and much less related to the budhist empty mind emphasis of bodri or the Complete Reality school. Like I said before, this doesn't mean that stillness wasn't there from the begining with lao tse, or that empty mind budhism hasn't been sucessfully integrated into daoist practice for a few thousand years, to the benefit of all. I mean, the daoists are nothing if not flexible. I just think the emphasis that bodri and others place on the empty mind practice has less to do with what I would consider traditional daoism and more to do with traditional budhism. spyrelx

Sean, Just sent $25 via pay pal. Never used pay pal before, so hopefully it got through. Happy reading. spyrelx

Put me down for $25. (If you can share it, I'd love to get a copy of it or see it on the sight, but I'll send you the $25 regardless). Just let me know how to get it to you. spyrelx