Wayfarer64

As I recently wrote here - Its is a "go with the flow" sort of attitude for me... letting life unfold rather than trying to direct the world to adjust to my agenda... This is not always possible - but it is usually desirable!

I see this as just another bright side to being without property! But yikes - what mis-management!

It seems pretty obvious that there have been and will be environmental changes -that is the nature of all things -and a basic part of Taoist belief systems as well... That human beings have propogated some ecological changes should be taken for granted. What the long term bad or good outcomes will be is developing... The view ahead seems to indicate that a more responsible approach to our pollution - be it from domesticated bovines or industrial chimneys, is a smart move. The direction we take on these matters -matters! Why not err towards the likely good rather than argue the various degrees of falability? That pollution is a detriment to our ecology seems pretty obvious as well- Just as smoking cigs - has obvious ill-affects on our health... But we make choices as to what pleases us rather than what is healthy for us... I would rather err towards the cleaner and less intrusive developement of resources than the rampant de-spoiling of any habitate for what ever reason-& I do believe that losing the rainforests that are being cut down at an astounding rate is a very bad thing on several levels - We lose the potential knowledge of unknown plants and animals -for medical as well as commercial, and diet related uses... It depletes the air-cleaning ability of any dense growth and often destroys the future use of the land due to poor use practices... Where I am living now we have plowed under some of the worlds best farm land - NJ IS the Garden State!- and are building McMansions to house mostly Indian new-comers - this is a straight up Malthusian nightmare, destroying good farm land to build private housing for those who are leaving the densly populated Asian sub-continent... It is just not wise land-usage IMHO- love to all- Pat

I have been "well off" with money and without it. I once had money to do many nice things for the people around me. These days I have little of material value, but more freedom than when I was running 3 art galleries in NYC- which offered many "perks" as well.... Life is a roller-coaster thus far...as now I am close to homeless and await the spring so I can live outside with little fear of the elements... and that seems like a fine idea as well... I wrote a book to be a companion to the I Ching a few years ago that a few Bums have bought - http://www.lulu.com/browse/preview.php?fCID=265718 My web site... http://www.pdgart.com ...is being worked on these days to make it more commercialy viable... But my energies remain with my not for profit work with TRAIN - http://www.rci.rutgers.edu/~gray/TRAINmain.htm its all good even tho- I'm without funds I feel very well and quite happy. I do believe this is due to my spiritual strength rather than any sort of slacker mentality... In any case I do not think wealth is a symbol of any sort of attainment other than the attainment of the materialistic stuff that is the wealth itself - energies are applied and often manifest in the direction sought - but not always - if it is not meant to be -it ain't gonna happen!- love to all-Pat

Being kind and compassionate works well with lovers and strangers. Sharing deep spiritual realms is much easier with lovers than strangers- for most of us -I have surmised this through an easy course of paying attention... For me, finding enlightenment may be done thru sexual and meditative activities... trying to express these awakenings is much more difficult...But if there is an inter-active god he 's probably voyeristic! Our sexual drives are very strong and can be used directly or channeled to be of huge importance to our general well-being on all levels...

I just picked up -The Way of the Shaman 3rd edition- and remember the 1st now as well- I think my life is changing.... but thats just as usual!

Actually Alexander (the Great) as well as others were in what is now Iran & India back when -well at least long before the Romans who had some small contact as well... Is there actual doubt that there was a pre-Europian caste system even counting such earlier and still historic contact... Isn't the Hindu caste system a reality of truly ancient duration...? I think the notion of a slam-dunk pretty apt... It is very old indeed!

I've lived pretty close to the edge much of my life, so there is little I fear in general terms - I guess the more responsibility we may have for others fosters more fear as our capasities are strained... There is much to fear in the world -some of us are more capable for dealing with what worries us than others...Real fear is usually directed towards what is the most Unknown -what we are the most ignorant about, but nonetheless has a grasp on our lives -And this varies quite a bit from person to person... Someone who cares a lot about a sports team may be more concerned for the fate of the team than who gets elected to the various seats of power that directly have a say in our lives... So I guess there is a balance between how much we care about something and how much the unknown quality of our experience with that something affects our nervous system! BTW - Reacting from fear is usually a poor stance to come from in any situation -no matter how fearful... it shows weakness...

This is a much bandied about topic here over the years... I am of the... "Sex is a natural, healthy and useful expression of our spiritual/physical/mental union and health"...School of thought. At 55 it is not as importatnt to me as it once was. And that is just part of our common human growth on many levels... Relizing the joys of our changes, even amid the sense of loss we may happen to experience through aging... That too, can/may be part of the process towards enlightenment and spiritual bliss...When we pay attention! This tenders grace and perhaps even some wisdom as we grow older... But in my experience shared sexual love is as great a spiritual act as any other!

Back to the basics- The only constant is change...

Search until you find what you need...Putting added value onto natural human propensities is wasteful. We each seem to at least recognize that we are in part - spiritual beings, if not beings of spirit having a human experience... We participate in the growth and culture of our inner selves...questioning everything always - why question questioning? why not keep asking?

Here are a few scatter-shots of interesting juxtapositions... In a Shaman's education there is communication between (animal)/spiritual helpers & with other students, as well as teachers... I guess spirit helpers could be angelic, but the tension between earth-bound powers and the etherial powers is just another piece of the puzzle- Speaking with animal spirits is perhaps even demonic in the minds of some Christians ... Thats a pretty big hurdle... The Mormons seem to have been out-casts more than I realized. Maybe they like it that way... Rather than look at what is alike, it may be interesting to address any fearful instances of ideas seperating various faiths. I think this needs to be scrutenized, perhaps then minimized at least in importance, if not in dogma- which brings us back to it being perhaps a faulty social contract... one that nature would not likely support- But rather than negate the contrast in differing social contracts, just reduce the anomoly's importance as part of sacred behaviors VS proscribed activities...Creating a more universal cultural norm... or maybe it would be better to just wing it when it comes to druthers!? In any case I will question any answers...tendered by any system... What is wise and what is arbitrary? Just because something is the norm does not make it the greatest...& there are too many norms to ever likely manifest a world-wide norm any time soon... that too may change... I like the differences and the variety of systems...It seems much more logical that the Tao would take on many forms as it were...than there being a universal expression of spiritual interconnectivity...If all was all of a kind all of the time, than why even have a system of connectivity? I hope the ability to change is an attribute of all systems and philosophies.... love to all- Pat

Faulkner had a good line about that -something like -"Knowing remembers before memory allows -or somesuch...As in - Actual knowing is a natural inclusive part of what you have become perhaps... I guess learning -both self taught and teacher-taught comes thru many avenues... Touching hot stoves, petting stray dogs, the basics can be learned both ways... but getting bitten twice by the same dog means it didn't take the 1st time thru! Or perhaps that dog just doesn't like you! In any case a teacher can be a great boon to learning, and a few things can only be learned through the few folks who have the answers...Esoteric knowledge is often that way... But there are probably enough stray dogs around to learn from in general...

I have just found "American Prophet a video about the life of J. Smith -narrated by Mr. Gregory Peck no less! will report back after viewing... ITs now the 27th- I've seen the movie and spoken with a dear friend who is Mormon for several years now- both she and her husband - an inter-racial couple that took some flak at first but now she says she is very happy with the help her Mormon friends offer her. It is certainly not for me but there is a great story to Mormonism and a deep Americanism that both scares me and offers a sense of patriotism I seldom accept as a good thing..But may well be good?! In any case it is a growing concern as they say...

I too have had poor results after spending much money on a therapist many years ago... It seemed I was just another way for him to sell some pills... I stopped seeing him -saving about $450 dollars a month and felt much much better without the pills and listening to his self-serving BS... But that IS only one case -there may be good shrinks out there - I sure hope so... Love to all- and yes once again - deep meditation has always been the best theropy for me... Know thy self 101!

What you do not know can not help you. Learn with every available vehicle as it is offered to you...

Come on folks - This thread is important enough to be kept seperate - PLEASE... do as suggested and create another thread - It is an interesting topic - but things are so hard to find here these days anyway - can't we at least try to keep our threads on topic!- at least after its suggeted already! A joke here and there is great - off topic is not a bad thing quite often it dove-tails and creates a continuum - but this is just another topic... Love to all

That is what I was told. But maybe H.O.M. has the full reasoning behind why that activity ist proscribed... I know that many Mormons own boats and go out onto great salt lake - but must do so as a practice for the great flood that is supposed to come in the future- to boat for pleasure is also proscribed...

Just this past Friday night I almost got into a fight with a guy less than half my age-- (I'll be 55 in a couple weeks...) Scenerio- Birthday party at the apartment of an attractive 22 year old girl - some several 20 somethings and several older folks like me as well... Tho I was probably the eldest there ... We are in a pretty smalll town with only one bar so we get to know one another, watching sports, playing darts or pool etc... Towards the midnight hour a few of the younger guys were getting into shoving matches etc... basic testosterone crap...The older guys just calmly cooled them out with humor but one guy was being very rude and macho- when I kissed the birthday girl goodnight to leave -he was next to us and reached over to tug at my (gray) beard... I smiled & swept his hand away and said -"we're all friends here" then turned my back and said some further good nights- he immediatly had started to follow as if my brushing his hand away was an afront to him... Other older guys just stared him down as he came up behind me... I was aware of him having followed me and felt myself steel-up for letting loose, having sensed his ill will... But the few older guys just showed thier comradery and the event disapated away - but that kid was looking for a fight, a united front of good-will disapated his urge for violence...or so it seemed -it could have been the force of numbers and not the general air of good-will who is to say!? In any case the soft curtailed the hard in that case... The or does it... still rings as a question -what actually stopped his seemingly ill-willed activities?

oh oh Carson- Duck! Slings and arrows are rife amongst us...that is an old problem here! Stick around, I believe that there are more than a few serious practitioners here, with long hours of meditation and some small glimpses into awareness that may be shared... have patience, don't let the blah blah blah get ya down...

That is the real deal - the essence of the word Namaste - that we use here so often... The awareness that we are spiritual beings sharing a world of wonder and terror and beauty and strife - It is simply a world in essence being all that we make it as we muddle along... moving towards the light... each on our own often lonely path -yet shared in deep knowledge that we are of the spirit...

Unhappily some Christians used his name to invade Palistine a few times and called those military actions Crusades -as if they had a divine purpose -beyond the search for glory and pelf...We humans can be such bastids and name the cause of our attrocities the will of Allah or Jesus or anyoldthing... To defend humanity against the facts of our own history is no easy task ! -impossible perhaps - but there are better days ahead it would seem - our history does show some progress- yes?

IT DEPENDS... Seems to pop up quite a lot in this thread... And that may be the most pertenant point. -It Depends on many different elements - where yr at in yr search who who have access to what yr capasities are where you wish to go with yr searchings... etc etc... There are just so many questions that arise that depend on conditional realities that it is not a certainty that any answer will fit -- (and that many thats are that!) Meditation is a given to my way of thinking- a basic start that will lead you where you need to go... Start there and let yrself progress as you are willing and able...It is hard work to delve deep into ones' inner self and dismantle the inner walls and create paths to calm and power and the other tools we find within ourselves... Teachers may help any one of us...or just waste time - but if you are drawn to a guru or martial arts sifu then it may be the right thing as circumstances opened up for that experience...But it may also be a sort of cosmic way-lay to give pause and warning of what/where NOT to go- and there again it is up to us to meditate through our options...

Thanks Carson- When I reread the book last year it was at the behest of two female Mormons who came round the store where I worked - I spoke at length with them about many religious ideas in an effort to broaden their knowledge and they seemed to be quite receptive... They actually seemed to be using their time in New Jersey to get to know the wider world around them as much as share the book with others - so there is hope for them at least to move into a larger role in the world... But they were "shocked" that I had met a Mormon who let his kids play in the ocean ... when I related to them that I had met a few Mormons in Atlantic City... they seemed very prudish in a funny way about coffee and food etc... Very contrained and of course -thus curious! I must say I am Mormon-curious -it just seems so odd a system to me...- Love to all-Pat