Wayfarer64

I agree with you but as stated. We humans are still pretty infantile at this point in time - How do we survive these dark-ages until a majority of humans transcend their lower natures to become evolved as it were?- It may be that a full refrigerator is more to the point than full reintegration? Base, animal cravings are not easy to lose for most folks. Too many hungry, scared and troubled souls... Most do not even try basic meditation as a regular practice, much less even think about non-agressive ways to interact with their fellow-beings. We want what we want and will fight to get it -is the norm... Maybe not amongst us Tao Bums as much as the larger population, but there is often a decided lack of harmony here too... from time to time... We are still for the most part a world of animalistic and scared beings who see the threats of our world as the main concern, not harmony not spiritual growth not even basic getting to know each-other. Baby steps are needed before great strides may be taken...I like the idea of yr manifesto -but my honest appraisal of our current world situation precludes my honestly signing on... As sweet as it sounds - turning the other cheek - is not an option I long to practice...Not to just save face mind you - but to continue on as a viable warrior, which is my way. I trust my instincts to do the right thing and not to create disharmony - but to use my abilities to maintain harmony against those who promolgate disharmony- As the reality around me dictates...

Hi there Wanderer!- I am glad to see yr still around... As we came to the Tao Bums around the same time and I've sometimes wondered if you'd stayed in touch... I am glad this thread has brought you back to the surface!

Now we are getting at some good spiritual content!- In my humble opinion of course... Tho there are many ideas that I do not find useful to me in Buddhism I thrill to the enlightening words and ideas offered by these works of harmonious spiritual wisdom!- many thanks for the posted translations!- I'm thinking of compiling a set of various translations -in an effort to create a sort of "Gistaldt" - sorry spelling is not my strong suit- Love to all-Pat

I don't have read? Funny typo! Anyway, I avoided this issue on purpose so as not to cause more dis-harmony. I re-read the book of Mormon just last year and found it beyond belief...Hysterical in fact. I could not bring myself to see much truth therein - And I really really tried... The actual first time that a book of faith held no truth -beyond a sort of bromide-ridden truthyness that may pass as wisdom somewhere ...I actually think Smith wrote it as a prank to prove how gullible people can be... You asked -thats my take... I suggest that you read a few of the Buddhist sutras as a way to look past such wierd religiosity and find some actual linkage to spirituality... But if YOU do find some truth in the Book of Mormon... be there -stay with it - what ever actually brings us to the realization that we have a spark of devinity within us is good... We each will find our own way eventually-

This is remarkable in its illustration of what it takes to foment harmony- or not... as the case may be... I again say that it is our preconceptions ( and lack of LISTENING) that gets in the way of true communication.... Our carried baggage is just too cumbersome to permit us to join hands as Stig asks... But I could also ask is it needed? The tower of Babble that is our human history of philosophy and faith, even our supposedly united, or at least potentially unifying "spirituality", - is the way we just sort of get along, its not comfy-cozy but it is invigorating...

Do they each have web-sites!? They all have places of worship & followers, don't they?.... They usually condemn anyone who doesn't believe in their system to some sort of hell! These ideas do not lead to harmony.... What is it in each of these disparate systems that will eventually lead their practitioners to harmony? I'm not sure that without a lot of time and exposure to many different systems and philosophies that people will come to realize where the simple agreements exist... I just hope that they all have open-minded and open-hearted seekers within each system and thus are able to explain themselves to each other...

Yeah -truth has a ring to it, or maybe a gravitas...BS just can't knock it around...I wish my language skills were better -I bet truth sounds like the real deal in any tongue! BTW- check out the Krishnamurti site there is a lesson about a neighbors' violence...It seems apt here some times -what may appear to be violent is sometimes a "soft" response -perhaps our softness was violence disguissed? I think not... but there is harshness here sometimes as well as comrade-ship -these topics stir the blood!

Many thanks ! I have been touting his wisdom for many years... don't follow leaders watch yr parking meters!- oh that was Dylan oops- I'll add it to favorites ASAP- love to all- Pat

Make no preconceptions... As I wrote else where - it is difficult to tell if yr laundry is dry if you check it with wet hands... Pre-conditions, and pre-conceptions get in the way of new knowledge...

I've noticed babies keep their eyes on the parent who is with them, just watching and listening... I remember just wanting to be in contact with my mom for most of my earliest memory - later on things changed but in the beginning it was all about ma...

That is a fine way to say it indeedy! -A. Pope has often come thru with real wisdom... I can't help but think he had some exposure to Taoist thought... love to all- Pat

Hey where can I get this piggy-bank for a brain? I can't seem to collect my thoughts some times!

I've been bizzy elsewhere, so this whole rancorous scene went by me unawares... I expect some rancor when discussing both religion & politics. Your emotions only hurt you and did not disturb me at all. I take this site seriously. I am not even sure what "trolling" is... That I try to keep my entries light-hearted may be offensive to some - that I take some of what I add here too seriously myself may also be problematic. But The discourse is important to all who seek open minded answers to deep and troublesome questions... I in fact have spent many hours in prayer to our Christian Lord and do not disparage any enlightened teachings of love and brotherhood. I find it remarkable that anyone would attack anyone else in the name of Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism or Islam - (I have also read the Koran all the Sutras I could find and tracts of Zoroastrian, Shinto, Gnostic, Animist and Wiccan belief systems...) Its funny how they all profess neighborly love and open-hearted good will... yet foment so much duress and trouble through the ages... Its just a bitch that we each can't see the superiority and greater value of those thoughts that do not agree with our own at the moment!

I have read the King James version cover to cover and a few other interpretations side by side... If Christians could ever see eye to eye it would be a niceity for the rest of us... The differences between Fundamentalists, Strict Catholics and Lutherans is astounding. That I can't see much to take to heart from any given interpretation shouldn't bother any true believers... That I doubt there was an actual Lao Tzu is a matter some Taoist could fault me for as well... I do not think religion is useful. I do believe that open minded interest in every form of philosophy has a use... Name calling on a forum is just silly-

I'm with Michael (yet again) on this one... Violence is a last resort -but our world is not a non-violent world. So I opt to agree in spirit and keep my options open. The fundamentalists of many religions are just too dangerous and narrow-minded to assume they may be passively tractable without a show of force... As a well trained martial artist... I NEVER use violence. I only use what seem to be harsh tactics... Real violence is seldom used by open-minded and kind hearted folks - we do not need a pact. It is those whos' propensity is usually towards violence that need to think about the option of non-violence - and they wouldn't sign anything that deflates their bubble of fear-mongered relience on physical force and coercion..more's the pity...

Your analogy is spurious at best. that you can read my mind so inacuratly is no surprise though- So, why do you come to a primarily Taoist site and look for a fight? We here add our two cents as we see fit. Unlike doctrainare sites. Did you expect ONLY agreement at a Tao Bum thread? - and further more I just wrote that I see little to link the bible with Jesus not that I believe the Rabbi to have been a false prophet - The Gnostic teachings are very different than main stream "christian" teachings - and as far as most open minded people see it -the Rabbi had no intention of becoming your messiah... So- to recap- I see little to connect the teachings of the man we now call jesus with the new testament- so yr whole premiss is just a bag of wind...I do not disparage the prophet -only the main stream churches now associated with his words...

I sure do agree with this spout assessment! They seem to just pump me up!!!- Like very fresh sushi does too! - the fresher our food the better no doubt about it!

Perhaps by example? I do not believe this is knowledge that can be caned into someone or yelled into understanding or even repeated over and over and over and over...

That is truly one wild-looking pup! I hope all the laughter its' bizarre looks generate doesn't give a complex?! Dis-figurement is a tuff burdon for many, not just pups...Inner vs outer beauty is still in the eye of the beholder...

I once knew a wonderful woman named Maya and one not quite as wonderful... I guess this is true on other levels too!? There are many Mayas and we each project our own... If not for maya we would just be bored silly with the bliss of cosmic harmony! & have no where to keep stuff from being stuff or getting stuffed! Illusion is as wonderful as a beautiful woman named Auntie Maya- so is there an anti-maya to revoke the power of maya? Can illusion be dis-spelled as it were - I sure believe it. but that may just be my illusion too?!

I did when it 1st was added to this forum... & this just does not ring true for me...sorry Mr. Kash I do not get the notion that this is actually a good idea to follow up on...

The bible seems to be a pretty poorly thrown- together assembly of disparate teachings stemming from many cultures ... Ur to Judea and then added to by Emperor Constantines' minions to create a religion to hold together his empire... I do not see a strong link between the teachings of the Rabbi Jesus- now known as The Christ and the Bible's portrayal of those teachings - It seems to me that Gnostic teachings may be actually closer to the words uttered by Jesus as he strove to rid Judea of the Roman influences... And I believe him to have beeen heavily influenced by Buddhism ( 500 years old in his day), as well as a most profound adherence to Judaic laws... But perhaps I'm just too into reading many sources that refute the bible as anything worth following - sorry if that offends-

I am in a large part agreeing with yr last statement and also do not wish to argue but to clarify. Points of view are just that, and do not constitute what actually does or does not transpire, only how we perceive the events and how we deal with them from our seperate states of mind.... Going beyond seprate awareness to objective awareness is what I was driving at above... The awareness that we do indeed create our own worlds I'll grant anytime - but it is not always thus in a universe that is so complex and inter-active moment by moment. Our understanding of our own powers to manifest our own reality are not absolute. If they were, then all spiritual practitioners would be as gods in our realm!

I'll email my buddy who introduced me to that system in Taiwan... I don't recall the actual style's name -if there was one?! we mostly trained at disarming a knife-weilding assailant from a sitting position...my friend is now teaching Chinese studies at U. Texas Austin, and may need some time to respond -

That is why I can see Taoism as the way to explain "reality" for me - because there is an acknowledgment that even "evil" exists as a componant within the whole structure - it is not relating to the rest of our shared existance - in any realm as if it were not a part of the oneness that the rest of our shared cosmic contruct is manifesting...It participates... It is that which does not want to belong to the rest and is yet an actual part of the whole nonetheless...The willfullness of otherness as it were...Subjective and self aware maybe - but often at odds with the efforts seemingly applied to the "greater Good"... The realization that such energy is also part of the larger structure and actually creates the tension that generates actual balance is a mind-blower...