Wayfarer64

At least in part the laws of heaven are Astronomical, (& interpreted/seen as somewhat astrological also). The changes of the sun and moon and planets that have such a pull on our earth's seasons etc...The Tao moves the heavens from a broader base of creativity and receptivity...Wheels within wheels as it were... But also within ourselves we are potentially guided by higher-(heavenly) ideals that are in turn generated by the Tao...So thats how I see what is being addressed here- love to all-Pat

"I had known that Bruce had trained with Gin Foo Mark in Southern Mantis, but not Tien Shan with your teacher - Mr. Yeung Chuan? Could you tell me more about him and this style, btw? Is he still alive and if not, are there any good websites on it?" This is a coincidence yet again...Tho I never studied with him- I met Gin Foo Mark one CNY thru Bill Chung who was his student and is the sifu who also worked with Bruce Lee...I mentioned on this thread earlier Grand Master Chung is still amongst the living... Gin Foo Mark is a reknowned master of the mantis style, and also still teaching I believe -I posted his web-site on these pages about a year ago- and we can find it again I'm sure... The info about Mr. Y. Chuan I leave up to youse guys- another coincidence!-I just received a photo-of Master Chung receiving an award for a lifetime of Martial Arts achievement from the guy next to him, Gary Alexander (who I hear is one tough SOB)...I'll try to drag the photo to this site- but I'm not sure I can-PDG

My NYC excursion is not likely to happen after all- hope to meet you all one daysoon anyway--Pat

What with all the build-up I do have much curiosity about Max- where/when is the free lecture being offered? I am quite bizzy building a coalition for homeless/jobless folks in AC these days... meeting with apponted officials etc... but am needing a dose of NYC as well- I guess a meeting around the 34th St. train & the 41St. bus stations works best for me...That has been the limit of my NYC experience of late- boo hoo- When I need to go to my storage in Trenton I can go thru Philly or NYC, (flopping for a night in Plainsboro usually) -its about the same time /$... McMannis's Bar in the theater district's is on 8th at 46th Street & is a great place for a hearty meal & a beer... let's stay in touch but this weekend seems unlikely- next with the Max thing's better- (I Hope)

I agree with this assessment. Trapping is best used to subdue an apponant rather than take them out of the fight. Tho one system I learned included breaking bones while trapping which will generally take the fight out of most antagonists... becomes... But somethings done as traps do not get countered-because they are successful, & because they happen first to thus end the situation...Any move or counter move relies on timing as much as skill of execution, maybe more so...Used at the right moment -particularly if a bone feels like it may get broken- will end it as you stated... It is what you have in mind as the best out-come of a fight that has to be decided first... and even that may change if the intent of one's adversary changes... From a mere show of force to pushing an advantage if they feel superior or conversly from strongly adversarial to "I was just kidding" as mentioned in the origanal scenerio- As usual change is the only constant-

My mom and my dog died on the same date 15 years apart. The depth of loss for each Being that we love and lose is different for each of us, and can not be simplified. It is very difficult on our hearts. So - Death is very difficult on emotional levels for the ones left behind, even while we accept the transcendant nature of our loved one's spirits going on... I dream of many of my dead friends and family often, & try to offer the comfort of my blessings to their spirits as I feel their blessings remain with me still.. .All of those whom I've loved the most in this life have died already. But I look forward to new love and a life shared with new people who will connect with me on deep levels once again... Take yr grief as deep as yr able -it will pass (if not fully)- in time and leave you stronger and more able to deal with this sometimes trying world we share- love to all-Pat

sure a composit word... usually/useful...

Lovely, lovely life Yummy, smooth, sticky, so sweet Honey, just like you

Great thread this. I am agreeing with Ya Mu's perspective. At different times of our development we need different inputs to manifest the best that is within ourselves. The intermingling of our aged spiritual selves and the Karma that comes with those spirits has a certain amount of fate or predestiny to deal with - but the energies that we manifest within the framework of our human existances has the real work to manifest whatever is to be done. I am a proponent of the notion that as everything is in a state of constant change it is up to us as evolving beings to stay current with the life of the world around us, if we are to be effective elements of progress and spiritual developement ourselves. If some here have the qualities of Bodisatvas- and adhere to a state of giving from their spiritual "wells", rather than receiving on a more physical level of existance, it actually means at least a little in the over-all scheme of life on earth. If actual "great teachings" are being offered then it is up to the recipients to manifest that, or not as their own beings will. The Teachings of Jesus and Muhammad have often been twisted into rather unhealthy ideas and actions. There have been Taoist Despots and Buddhist tyrants and thus human foibles will often bring sorrow from ideas that started out as only being part of the goodness we seek. I can hope to be blameless in this incarnation, but it seems unlikely that new karma will not be added to my spirit's burdens...That is why I try to protect the new ideas from the tyrany of old ideas. I also see how the tyrany of the new threatens the valuable and durable that should be treasured... But as the premise of this thread states it IS up to each of us to find our own paths thru -to keep our spiritual growth healthy. The paths we chose are important, we will try to find our ways alone and together with teachers and peers. While mistakes will be made, we can learn from these and share what we learn here. I appologize to Mak Tin Si for my vehement disapproval of his attempts to help us all here. I felt attacked by his recourse to name calling when admonished for his intrusive behavior. We are all equals here, no matter what our spiritual levels of attainment, much less our societal positions or personal wealth. The purity of this egalitarianism should not be questioned as long as Sean has final say. He has proved himself fully capable. This site is a true blessing for spiritual seekers of any ilk, cult, sect, or coven, and its open forum is unique for its variety of content and ability to absorb all who wish to participate. It is not a soap-box for anyone, but for everyone...alone & together we grow. Happy New Year everyone!-love to all-Pat

I'm not so sure tolerance is always such a virtue. I hold opinions that are at odds with other's opinions. I do not tolerate intolerance for example... Nor do I put up with religious zealots who insist that evolution is only a theory and that the world has only existed for 5,000 years. In fact, my last post was a heart-felt castigation of Mak Tin Si who has become fascistic in his attempts to hijack this site. He has even gone so far as to accuse those who resent his unmitigated intrusions as "communists"- which is actually just silly... I do not sit by and let bullies have their way if I can try to stop them. So courage to face enemies is a virtue as well as open-mindedness, which is not the same as tolerance... patience is a virtue to be practiced while exchanging the various expressions of others and our own ways of thought and life etc... but if I'm attacked I do not tolerate the attacker's activities. Te has many facits- doing the right thing at the right time seems to be the Way in my view... and that may enclude a good swift kick from time to time!

Mak has begun to actually annoy me. He demands respect and gives none. He has narrow-minded and DOGmatic views on a plethora of subjects that can and should be contained in far fewer threads and or posts. He seems much more ignorant than wise to my old eyes. I have met many masters and practitioners all over the world, from the Dalai Lama, Shao-lin Masters and yogis to the Guru Maharaji. I will not waste my time with this fella- When his answer to so many asking him to be less intrusive is to call us communists - a plain mis-nomer and as ignorant a response as any I've encountered here. I'll add the "- -ck-off " to his fu... and add him to my IGNORE LIST, too bad I'll still need to wade thru the line after line of his fascistic crap to get to anything of real interest and open-minded value here.

The Burmese word for the number seven (7) is shit... It may be more than lucky huh? This has become much too DOGmatic for me to actually pay attention to as valid philosophy. I am no longer interested in what master Mak Tin Si has to say. At first it seemed so full of promise... but now it just seems full of ....... bad luck. Any castigation of any animal seems much too non-enclusive to have much actual merit. Besides - the ancient lore of China is full of reverance for foxes, and many other creatures- that each must excrete whatever thay eat...I have a great and abiding respect for all life- and their shit comes with them, just as our own comes with us. I have acknowledged senscience in many animals- dogs in particular-This is not giving human characteristics-to them. Many animals have Buddha nature and empathetic or compassionate reactions to other life forms...Interspecies relationships that exhibit empathy exist all over the world... My view holds no water, beyond my own experience, but these intrusive announcements of what True Taoists are and what values we should hold as Taoists are as narrow-minded as any Fundamentalist approach to any other philosophy or faith I've come across. This sort of wisdom seems ignorant when delved into beyond dogmatic and non-logical interpretations. I have eaten dog in Asia -out of politness to my hosts, as well as horse, whale and lots of goat. I am not a vegetarian -tho I have been a vegetarian at times (from the age of 4 on...)-As a spiritual being having a human experience, I regret my omniverous habits far more than my sexual proclivities -which are indeed quite "normal" if once quite voracious.. I will remain respectful to all here as my temper allows and my natural (as taught by my mom)- manners dictate but I am loosing it with this hucksterism imparted as dogmatic knowledge...It reminds me of SD... Happy new year, good will, and yes love to ALL -Pat

No means no. - If (s)he says (s)he doesn't want you- take that at face value! If you wish to not enjoy yr own desires, or manifest lust- there are many ways- - Turn it to love... this is a good thing that has spiritual purpose and content and adds meaning and joy to living - Become a monk... peer pressure helps- (avoid the Catholic Church those guys are just wierd about boys) - Take cold showers... this actually works! but dont catch a cold. - Grow old... old folks just seem to stop being horney after a while, the libido just skulks off, ignored and rejected. - Remember the dead are watching you all the time. Spirits judge yr performance and laugh at yr foibles. if you are young - wait until you are old to become celibate. There is a time for everything... (leave the live-stock out of this- they have their own problems!) enjoy life it is a greater gift than any man-made belief or fantasy could offer.

I see so much thinking that indicates "one or the other"- or maybe one but not the other - sort of mindsets around me. Do we as Taoist practitioners (or even wannabes)- have a middle way to live indeed or is it only a goal? Why are so many practices so extreme? Does the much touted search for enlightenment have an element of open-mindedness inherent to it? Does finding the "Middle Way" have applications for our everyday living, even if we choose other paths of conduct? Is it living in the moment and making our choices each moment to find that "true path" each human heart alone may calculate and articulate? What say youz bums? I'm interested in what Taoism's basic premises have in our behaviors ... love to all-PDG

Interesting points made so far- Buddhist takes on the middle way interest me too, (but I generally do not follow Buddhist thinking in many instances. I do not wish to escape any part of life, nor do I qualify suffering as something to be avoided. I see suffering as an instrument of teaching, not to be avoided... ) The Taoist search for harmony between opposites is more to the point of what I seek and try to impart here...That nature has extremes is a given and is the basis for the very human effort to control and master nature- it scares us so often, like Catrina, and Tsunamis -But, for me it is the shock of nature that is arrousing and instigates change. Pain and terror can be mastered if we keep a level headed (centered) approach to those turmoils... Death is inevitable and may be welcomed at any moment if one has centered themselves in calm acceptance of nature's ways...This does not preclude us from fighting for one's life, family, beliefs or what else may matter to us beyond personal safety... For me it is finding out what actually does matter to me in this existance that creates character and a moral center...Any practice that leads me to that center has merit...and gives meaning.

If one ingests TO FU- Is that putting ones foot in one's mouth? Does he walk on the paths of wisdom?- or is it just a kick?

Funny thing is Fu translates as truth... so as I wrote elsewhere one man's truth is another's heresy... The Middle Way offers us a mean(s) to an end that holds some truth for each-

All kidding aside- I understand Fu to mean truth as a basic translation.... Alas one man's truth is heresy to another...

we can only look to Fu-turistic speculations... what will be added to this fury of fun...

One Fu-tile is but a piece of stone... A mass of Futile is a mosaic of empty promises... Futile is as futile does... it builds castles made of sand... and as the anciant joke's punchline goes... if the fu shits wear it. (I actually forget the build-up to that joke and only remember the pun-ch line... In fact I enjoy many of those Fu posts and think they have some value - but a good laugh has much more value in our world of wonders...than just about anything I can believe in...

Gossamer- Now I am confused..These actions by "David" are actionable and illegal- bring legal forces to bare-down on him and be done with it... Use your own political power and rights to deal with him- If these things are being done press charges! also the Colazapan you write abouit is what my friend who tried to commit suicide takes -so it is much more than a muscle relaxer- it has psychotropic applications/indications as well...mostly it relaxes the brain -not the muscles- used to calm the nervous. so I say this whole thing is not ringing true to me - if it is a real set of problems that you discribe take real action and confront him in reality as one who has been victimized by him. Sue him or get a big friend to "lean-on" him, but take responsibility for the situation as you see it and address it as a human being with real life options. asking a distant Taoist priest to intervene this way just seems foolish to me. sorry for the "tuff love"- I have sympathy for the trauma that has been induced by this miscreant -but it is what you have to deal with - face it and deal with it- we can help and obviously many here will try to help- but lets do it in reality and as a natural out-growth of our networking, not as some cosmic push-back that will only create more negative energy... peace -PDG

hey this is funny- the amount of energy put into this thread is far beyond the input onto the numerous threads started here by the subject of discussion. - all the Fu threads - I guess I would politly ask: Please sir be kind to those of us who feel inundated by this onslaught and condense yr output that then becomes our input...Is not so much to ask on a public forum. Still, I find more to question in some of these "attacks" than in the original topic of discussion. We can be open and opinionated without rancor. even if the number of seperate topics is intrusive on a site that gladly makes room for everyone I think that the response to this thread far out-numbering the responses to the many seperate Fu threads says it all- to condense these Fu threads just makes sense. We started as a rather smaller community that seems to have been invaded over the past year by tens of thousands of new folks -this is a wonderful and great thing but there seems to be some need of self-restraint from each of us in how we comport ourselves now that some "over-crowding" has set in here. There is room for everyone, but singlular and maybe vested interests need not start crowding out others...It is somewhat like gentrification, when one set of interests commands the realestate at the expence of others... It may be that we need socialistic questions to be asked of each other as to how best we can get along...That is not communistic- a word too often mis-used all around the world... These Fu threads have interest for many of us. That is also a real and good thing. It adds to our knowledge and is of use. It is only the manner in which it is offered that has created an issue. That should not be so difficult to adjust and make more "user friendly"- Peace -and happy new year to all-PDG

Its actually pretty interesting/fun.... I've gone as part of my sifu's entourage many years -but not recently- any window of opportunity is fine with me as long as I can muster the bus $ to make it- Pat