Wayfarer64

This lack of open-minded discourse is not what I for one, have come to expect here... Please let me know why you are so very sure that you can hold yourself in a position that allows (or disallows) what we want to think... This topic has some weight for some -little for others - but the sharing of ideas here is very important to me. Hubris is amusing/annoying but seldom useful...

Thank you JJW... Yes! I also see the Taoist Way as a practical feet on the ground application of the real (scientific?!) knowledge we have amassed as beings seeking a meaningful path on this planet and within the wider scope of universal forces we hope to one day understand better, and then use as evolved and (I hope) still evolving beings... the kunlun thing has my interest and I will at some point look into the practice with more intent and deeper questions... But I am happy to be exposed to it here and will watch with interest as the practice expands. There does seem to be a humorous/pranksterish attitude eminating from the group...that is both compelling and apt to create a dubious element for some... I for one hold humor in very high regard and even feel it is more important than any "political correctness" that "poor taste" may offend... people are funny. we ought to laugh at each other and ourselves for the many foibles we manifest so much of the time...

I was just speaking yesterday with a woman who was introduced to mescaline ( the raw cactus) as an 11 year old - by her grandmother as part of a "coming of age" ritual attended by tribal elders I was not aware of that ritual until yesterday as being expected for females as well as males-(which i knew about)... Vision quests and holy connections are made with the help of natural psychotropics in many cultures, and I do not think I can dismiss them. I have also done many psychotropic drugs as a path to higher consciousness and as an aid to "partying" as well.... I have seen much harm and much good come from experimentations, so it is certainly not for all and any of us. But for some it may be a real eye opener to higher realms of being and seeing. Precautions and guidence are critical and the use of powerful psychotropics should be done with serious intent- not for kicks...

This is a very interesting topic. For me there is no one way for us all to be, only our own one way to be... -which is to be that which we can recognize as our best of selves as much we can manage. The will to transcend our lower animal natures is strong for most cultivators and spiritual seekers. For some, sex can be a pathway to spiritual awakening and a shared cosmic/spiritual realization. Tantric and other aspects of spirituality use the force of sexuality to transform and transcend. I have always found sex with women to be an exceptionally wholesome and fullfilling aspect of my spiritual life. My only experience with homosexuality was being gang-raped by neo-nazis-(the Stanton-Pagones KKK cell famous for attacking Tawana Brawley)... That both actual incidents were covered-up by the "powers that be" and good men were discredited (Maddox in particular) is a great travesty and sad commentary on our society and legal system... Those men were/are homophobic homosexuals -who have a truely demented and evil aspect to their personalities and have no loving/caring/nurturing aspect to their sexuality...For such evil beings sex is about power not love. I have been able to transcend the attack and have done what I was able to support those who tried to expose those miscreants. I do not hold their mis-guided homosexuality to blame, only that which twisted them into sadists instead of honest "gay" men... It was their pain and inner anguish which drives them to hate and attack, not their gayness...I believe this is the case with most hate groups, nazis in particular. So I see it as the fighting of ones' true inner nature that creates evil miscreants not their true inner nature -(unless they have some sort of sociopathic/chromasome problem) etc... Homosexuality is natural for some, repugnant for others. Cultivation of ones' true inner spirit is a matter of transcending all "self" related issues and becoming one with that which is beyond self or personality or that which dies... It is the eternal within us that seekers seek... if anal sex is a step in that direction for someone -who am I to ask if it is a true path? Forcing any viewpoint on others is the sin for me... acts of cowardice and bullying are reprehensible and degrades all concerned. Conversly, it is the loving, open expression of the inner self shared in erotic love that counts (whatever that may be agreed to) when reaching for higher levels of awareness and loving embrace etc...Whoever that may be with, consentual love is never a bad thing... and that may not even need any sexual componant...

I miss his physical input here

There is quite a lot of esoteric "wisdom" bandied about here. Much of it is quite good. But For any path you take, keeping your feet on the ground and your awareness of where you are at each moment -and appreciating the splendors of this life while yr there... is usually worth the attention paid in any case.

I for one want to learn how to be a better wise-ass... I believe the root of all wisdom is in startling away the complacency within any given norm...Creating new view-points to bounce around with etc...This seems to be how the new eventually becomes the norm...only to be shaken up by some new wise-ass . (I stir up too much fuss now and then not to admit an adherance to the benifits of trouble-making) Making fun of serious issues, sometimes has some merit... in other words contention is part of life as is humor and all the other etc etc etc..eras but realizing the spirit within eachother usually mellows us out enough to converse amongst ourselves on this great forum... If my ass is wise...then my head must be screamin mad full of wisdom- (if only!)-- just some fun to keep things silly rather than up-tight...- peace- Pat

The Yi JIng (I Ching) was the beginning for me. Breathing and posture and the will to be the best you that can be managed in this wild and wooly world are basic to predispose you towards your path. But the path is always there in the first place!!! Opening your awareness to your place along the path and what you may do to progress with insight and spiritual joy and deeper appreciation of the moment by moment existance you are blessed with- to reach a fullfilled perspective and resonant stance in your day to day activities takes patience and dedication... So just be yourself as best you are able -that is the way to be of the Tao in my interpretation... and enjoy your life! It is so precious, do not waste it in needless worries. If my little book of poetry helps thats cool too- http://www.lulu.com/pdgart namaste & peace - Pat

Hi Darin, I've been a proponent of the Yi Jing (I Ching) for several decades... It has been a source of wisdom and peace of mind for all that time. I have also written a companion book of poetry that I hope will be enjoyed by any and all who are Tao-curious... http://www.lulu.com/pdgart Please visit the site and enjoy a look-see for free. Any comments are welcome too !- Peace- Pat

I hope this works out for you. But the DSV thread shouldn't be the source of anything other than a laugh... Still- after all the great entries you have made and shared here I do hope that yr retreat is quick and painless. Retreat is a dangerous time and yr actions must be done with great caution so as not to allow yr weaknesses to be taken advantage of... then it becomes a time of amassing great strength and the resources you gather will be of utmost use to you in the future...- Peace- Pat

Long ago Descartes wrote (in French)- I think therefore I am... It has become an axiom of logic in a way, maybe unprovable, but a given for many of us... If I die and am still "thinking", then I guess I will still "be" on some level, and this is indeed what I believe to be true, because... I have experienced several states of out-of-body awareness (as Iam not adverse to experimenting with my consciousness just for the sake of gleaning new insights into what that consciousness may be and/or become)... I say what we don't know can't help us...NOT what we don't know can't hurt us - ignorance is deadly and usually wasteful too... Further- I do not hold with some basic Buddhist themes - such as all life is suffering. It is also glorious and breathtakingly devine. It seems in fact to be pretty much as we make it- if that is Karmic in nature , I can accept that as well. But I do not seek a Buddhist "Nervana"... I seek a Taoist awakening in this mortal body and through my eternal spirit, with practice, patience , dilligence and compassion , I hope to find some peace of mind that will last as changes disrupt my life. This seems very doable to me at this time ...I can let go of most problems, possessions and even dreams as I advance my inner selfs' strengths and get past the draw-backs and weaknesses that I still maintain... I assume a good teacher would be of some help in my questings, but have not heard of one I am willing to "follow" as yet... Peace my brothers & sisters - let yr changes be all for the better- xo-Pat

It is not so hard to hear truth spoken/written, there is a "ring" to it that is real- yes there is the ring of truth in words or there is not. Most words are dull and have no resonance to assertain. When we hear truth or read it ...it becomes something more real than just the words uttered/shared... it may even become a real part of our own lives. We each have chosen paths that enclude seeking higher wisdom than is "typical" in modern cultures for the most part. I have expressed my very serious doubts as to the path offered by Sean Denty- it does not ring true for me. That this thread has become something more than the plateform to shill one method of search is a true blessing for us all, we continue our searching with open minds and hearts- May this day of thanks resonate for you all- seeking answers to the deepest of questions...

When I become thankful for taxes, I will be in a different nation than the USA... But for the rest I am indeed grateful for all of my many blessings even those with more obvious silver-linings, those that take less good will to appreciate!!- And i am also truely grateful for Sean's efforts here at the Bums! Happy Thanksgiving to all !!!- Pat

I've been getting images like fractals or circular changing mandalas when I meditate and concentrate on the area of my central forehead...(The third eye or perhaps 6th chakra). The colors are not vivid but the movement there-in has distracted me in a sort of hypnotic way. I find this disconcerting, though beautiful. As if there is a messsage I should be getting somehow. I am not sure why I find this disturbing, but it is somehow... Any clues as to what this sort of experience indicates?

If I were hanging by my teeth and someone below me was triffling with me I would pee on him and try not to laugh.... or perhaps, I'd just laugh and wave bye bye... Maybe this is a sort of bi-polar reaction -as in an unresolved paradox, but if I became foolish enough to be in such a position I guess I'd be ready for a new start from any direction...

Please refer to the YiJing's hexagram -enthusiasm- I think it is #16... music has always been a part of humanbeings' spiritual expression. - There are lots of instances where it is very evident to my ear that something transcendant it going on- "Bird(s) of Fire " by the Mahavishnu band -(John McGlaughlin et al-) Is a quick example that comes to mind...As do Bachs' violin concertos and many other pieces- Hey-that may be another thread- what are the more spiritually transcendant tunes that come to your mind... christmas tunes don't work so well for me anymore but when I was very young they were magical in the extreme...- Peace

Thank you each and all for yr great feed-back on this... It was never worrisome, only of interest to me how often such imagry occurs with other meditators... But I do somehow feel closer to you all when I read yr kind words and get the notion we are all on a wonderous journey through this realm of existance-or is that plural realms?- In any case I am still getting the images from time to time and am feeling at home with them now, much more than before - peace -wayfarer

I just finished a cigar- my first in a few weeks. I enjoy a good smoke every so often, it is calming but also I find if im walking in the woods it is intrusive on my experience of that kind of calm. Don Padron makes good inexpensive cigars - American Spirit would be the only cigarette I would smoke now...

around here everyone asks - "Whats up?"... I just point skyward and watch their eyes...

how about- "Get in The Way..." - On the front & @ www.taobums.com - On the back just another two cents- peace to y'all

I've not gotten any odd questions from our Taobums site -only from my Tenants' Rights cyber-connections... I hope this crap is not too distracting or disconcerting for ya !-

As an artist it is very important that I know the differences ( and costs ) of each pigment I use - the real world has strict needs for, and restrictions on, many things that are maliable and compliant in our minds... The Taoist approach keeps my feet on the ground whereas the Buddhist approach has me floating- that is the difference I feel... it is not intellectual just gut reactive... whats up with the dings?

This has become an interesting thread after all... Just because we know things that others wish to know - and vice-versa- these potential natural exchanges may be frought with dangers... Lessons need to be learned before progress can be made... there is a "critical path" in this progression... One step at a time... COMPASSION is the guiding force in my opinion -without a kind and gentle heart - all that one will receive is rancor from anyone who has true wisdom to offer- No one who is on a path towards enlightenment wishes to lead. as such -just to be a good example, perhaps.. nor to be lead astray.... Nothing is - nor should it be - easy in these matters. as i said befor here it is The Razors Edge we walk... ( & yes please do read Maughams' book by that name if you have not yet) -- peace & love -Pat

yikes this thread has really moved along in a day!- First- I also have spent most of my adult life without a TV. (or a car)...and have found that it is a great boon to my well-being and capasity to observe my fellow Americans from a reference point that tends to keep me on my toes ... As I am often challanged as to my "normality" and ability to "fit in" - by such practices.... The whole Buddhist/Taoist points of contention are pretty interesting -but why do we bother ourselves with these things? Our perceptions may be chamged, challenged and inhanced -I should hope - but otherwise it seems futile to try to change one-anothers minds about how we view these conceptual differences. There are just different ways of expressing our alternate perceptions. I hope that some where each one of us will become progressively more open and enlightened as to each-others stances and view-points.... We seem to be learning quite a bit from each-other already!

I for one have seldom -if ever, been complacent. Restlessness is a far stronger trait in most who do not wish to settle down. A cave offers one little of reality to ponder as one ponders oneself, and then all you are left with is yr intrinsic nature. This is not much to show for yr time if what you are working towards is just not found at those very basic levels of introspection... I'd venture a guess that, it is the depth of knowledge as well as the quality of knowledge that can translate into levels of being and DOING that actually transmit a connection to the path where one is becoming closer tobeing "blameless" in the Taoist sense-as one makes their way through life. For me it is a progressive journey with many ways to be me and hopefully a better me as I go along. To be able to do this with another person as a couple is twice as difficult an operation. So I think anyway can be come one's way to being one's best self... which may be found in both self reflection or using those around us as "sounding boards to our observed selves"