Wayfarer64

In my opinion another true source of the Tao is found in the less accessable but much more far-reaching YiJing -(I Ching is the more typical spelling)-this is a far older tome and has a deeper grasp of what the Tao may offer in an interactive form...There is some argument with this view as with any opinion but so be it...The Tao Te Jing is easier to grasp so it may well be the best first contact point for most westerners...

of mice and men was a good tale... but the corolation seems dubious to me in this instance

I find the fact that the bio-diversity of our planet is being wasted for the momentary greed of a few ignorant loggers - as the most appalling fact of our current historical time frame. In a very short time the bio-diversity that remains will be recognized as the worlds greatest resource on our home planet and the one thing we have misused the most seriously - (god damn it!!!!!) that both Taoists and other nature-based belief systems recognize this Now is important and something WE SHOULD be addressing as a group- what do ya think out there? should we organize as a group to address this problem?

Again, I am gratified that such expressions/explorations of actual sexual conduct have sprung from this little (hopefully funny) vid... BUT... the vid was a send-up of male ego contests and one-ups-manship...We wanted to make the juxtaposition of types the funny aspect - where by, some old fat guy could beat a young studly African at the games of choice for most in our popular culture...Still, It was the quest for tickets to the world cup that drove the fat guy on & it was the quest for chicks that drove the young black guy on -then it was the quest to make his friend happy with the girl of his dreams that inspired the fat guy then it was the quest for freaky lesbo sex that releveled the playing field...The wanting of things and activities is always amusing. it is when they super-cede the real meanings to be found in our lives that we lose track of our inner worth and create the mayhem that is the human comedy... That is why so many of us here are seekers of higher truths other than sexual gratification etc... I for one will remain on the lookout for any humor in many situations -there is so much tragedy to go around I appreciate the escapism of jokes and the rediculous to lighten the days' travails...

Its those fluffy-bunny wiccans who are evil (like the one in Monty Pythons' search for the holy grail that chewed a mans throat out)...dontcha know...? but seriously IMHO- The powers derived from meditation and connections with earth wind fire rain, etc are real to me ...We can each grasp power and energy from the world around us... But what we do with it makes us good/evil etc... What we call ourselves matters very little to me -a rose would smell as sweet by any other name... The point is... I for one, do not like the smell of roses. I relate the smell to funerals. So It is my experience that gives the rose smell powers to unsettle me -not the name nor even the smell itself -it is my associations with the phenominom of rose attar that evokes the reaction... as it is with so many of lifes offerings... We make of this world what we will as we are able- wishing lottsa love to ya all-

I just received this email & thought of this thread- Just mouth wash with the method described clean the human machine very nicely without too much effort. ........besides the "CURES", read testimonials about increased metabolism- weight loss- gum & teeth repair & whitening !!! I'm trying it - http://www.earthclinic.com/Remedies/oil_pulling.html I'm going to try this out: http://www.oilpulling.com/ Dr. F. Karach, M.D., presented a paper before the All-Ukrainian Association. The meeting was attended by oncologists and bacteriologists belonging to the Academy of Science of the USSR. Dr. Karach explained an unusual simple healing process using cold-pressed oils. The results of this therapy invoked astonishment and doubt concerning the contents of his report. However, after further examining the workings of the oil therapy, one has but to then test it on oneself to prove its validity and effectiveness. It is most astonishing that such results can be achieved with this absolutely harmless biological healing method. This simple method makes it possible to effectively treat the most varied diseases, in some cases enabling one to avoid surgical intervention and the taking of medications that can have harmful side effects.The exciting factor of this healing method is its simplicity. It consists of swishing cold-pressed oil in the mouth( Sunflower or Seasme, Pl. note you don't need to go for organic oils only, A normal refined sunflower oil bought from any supermarket proven to be effective in many people). The healing process is accomplished by the human organism on its own. In this way it is possible to heal cells, tissue and all organs simultaneously; the body itself gets rid of toxic waste without disturbing the healthy microflora. Dr. Karach says human beings are living only half their life span. They could potentially live healthy to be 140 to 150 years old. The method In the morning before breakfast on an empty stomach you take one tablespoon in the mouth but do not swallow it. Move Oil Slowly in the mouth as rinsing or swishing and Dr Karach puts it as ' sip, suck and pull through the teeth' for fifteen to twenty minutes. This process makes oil thoroughly mixed with saliva. Swishing activates the enzymes and the enzymes draw toxins out of the blood. The oil must not be swallowed, for it has become toxic. As the process continues, the oil gets thinner and white. If the oil is still yellow, it has not been pulled long enough.It is then spit from the mouth , the oral cavity must be thoroughly rinsed and mouth must be washed thoroughly. Just use normal tap water and good old fingers to clean. Clean the sink properly, you can use some antibacterial soap to clean the sink. Because the spittle contains harmful bacteria and toxic bodily waste. If one were to see one drop of this liquid magnified 600 times under a microscope, one would see microbes in their first stage of development. It is important to understand that during the oil-pulling/swishing process one's metabolism is intensified. This leads to improved health. One of the most striking results of this process is the fastening of loose teeth, the elimination of bleeding gums and the visible whitening of the teeth. The oil pulling /swishing is done best before breakfast. To accelerate the healing process, it can be repeated three times a day, but always before meals on an empty stomach. Precautions (a) Do not swallow. The oil should be spat out. But inadvertently if you swallow there is nothing to worry. It will go out through faeces. Nothing is to be done. ( If you are allergic to a particular brand of oil, change the brand of oil or oil itself to different oil. © Sunflower and Sesame oil have been found to be equally effective in curing diseases. Other oils were not found to be as good. Do not blame oil pulling by practicing with other oils. Use refined oils. Results of Oil Pulling The result of this healing research has attracted amazement and resulted in further research. This additional research concerning Oil Therapy has now been thoroughly documented, especially with regard to physiological similarities between individuals. It is surprising that through this biological healing method a wide variety of symptoms have unquestionably disappeared without any side-effects. This simple method makes it possible completely heal such a wide variety of diseases which would normally be treated by an operation or by powerful or potent Drugs, usually with significant side-effects. The simplicity of this healing system in which Oil is swirled backwards and forwards in the mouth, is due to the stimulating effect which it has on the body's eliminatory system. Through this method it is possible to heal individual cells, cell conglomerates such as lymph nodes and more complex tissues such as internal organs simultaneously. This occurs because the beneficial microflora throughout the body are provided with a healthy continuum. Without this natural bodily intrusive element evinced by the microflora the usual pattern of human health tends to lean towards illness rather than wellness. Dr. Karach anticipates that regular application of this treatment by reversing this process so that wellness is the dominant state of the human body is likely to increase the average human lifespan to approximately 150 years, double the present life expectancy. Dr. Karach is supported in this view by other colleagues in the world. By means of this treatment {Oil } it is invariably the result that diseases like migraine headaches, bronchitis, diseased teeth, arterio thrombosis, chronic blood disorders such as leukemia, arthritis and related illnesses, neuro physiological paralysis, eczema, gastro enteritis, peritonitis, heart disease, kidney disease, meningitis, and women's hormonal disorders are completely eliminated from the organism. The benefit of Dr. Karach's method is that the oil therapy heals the whole body in perpetuity. In terminal diseases such as cancer, Aids and chronic infections this treatment method has been shown to successfully replace all others. Dr. Karach has successfully healed a chronic leukemia patient with 15 years of harsh treatment methods behind him. Acute arthritis in 1 patient who was totally bedridden was removed from his body in 3 days with no inflammation apparent. NOTE: The recommended oils to use are Sunflower Oil, Seasme Oil. We are receiving many emails about which oil to use. Our experience with thousands of people across the globe says USE COLD PRESSED OIL as first choice, if it is not available use REFINED OIL ( which seems to be effective in the process too). We have observed that any oil other than SUNFLOWER or SEASME may not be effective.

thanks Pero-that does make sense - & thanks -the WTF was what I had hoped for !!!this thread pissed me off with all of its value judgements about what is good and bad for others to do intent and interaction are what count -(for me anyway)- having fun at the expense of others is still funny even if it aint PC...(politically correct)...we made something that was 'sposed to make fun of ourselves and male-ego contests in general but this has been turned into another TaoBums slug-fest about conflicting value systems... if the intent were to engrandize ourselves at the expense of others -it may very well be a bad thing, but to use one's wiles to snooker a friend and/or get snookered by them, has been the source of a lot of knowledge in my world view, yet & still... I realize that the rough and tumble of existance is fine by me...and indeed it is very enjoyable for the most part, but some have no tummy for it I guess... my bad??? I don't think so

My Hung Gar sifu always said he was just doing the work of god...I did not believe him per se at each instant he claimed such an occurance had taken place...But I always felt that he believed it... such truths or beliefs in such things as truth do not always seem self evident... our devine essence has yet again manifested in mysterious ways... what comes to mind for me is often doubt when the devine is claimed.

We were not trying to make a parable or teach a lesson. we were trying to make something funny... but let me retort against this Buddhist bs- a good thing to do? get real! it is a great thing to do. it keeps us on our toes for real troubles that are out there to truly f-ya up... AND... They shared the tickets in the end... no one was conned... 'cept perhaps the guys by the gals who went their own way...BUT- again it was just a video made to generate laughs not some sort of serious contest of world views... again what is this PUA stuff? -PS -our next video will be "How to smoke a good bud..." -kids these days tend to ruin a good bud by rolling it with cigar wrappers or tobacco...UGH!!! laugh if you still can out there... this thread is getting "way" too serious indeed...

It seems to be a good thing that such a serious discussion insued from this video- Or maybe it is out of place for such a simple 4 minutes of supposedly NON-serious video... but I am lost with the jargon of PUA etc -what the hell are those letters representing? Did anyone just watch the footage for a laugh... as suggested?

An old issue of Time Mag had an article about the "God Gene" back in 2004 or so... I saved it and hope to find it to add to this discussion... There was a gene found that was thought to corispond to our spiritual musings as I remember it -there was some mention of Buddhists saying that we had chromosomes from past lives as well as from our perants -that made me wonder how our genetic code could "remember " such items and reastablish them in subsiquent lives etc... anyone else remember have this article?

I first became a vegitarian at the age of 4... I was not allowed to continue after the initial 4 months of practice. I have been so inclined since and often am vegitarian as I feel the need to be so... But it is not a constant effort -nor do I think that if and when I am vegitarian it is any effort at all -it is just how I am at the time... Vincent Vega -said it for all of us who eat those that once were alive- in Pulp Fiction..."But bacon tastes good, pork chops taste good"....(they were addressing that other matter of "filthy beasts" in that topic of discussion) The flesh is weak so others eat it...May answer some of the question... eat or be eaten was the rule for a very long time... it may take us longer to evolve away from that scenerio...

But seriously folks (and thanks Cat for the quip about finding the void as being good meditation) there is always more to find in our searchings -complacency is no way to further our paths' extention into the void or any other realm of being we may wish to explore... Any place we may find ourselves will have a change within it - even "the void" ... there is no constant state of being in nature except that of change... here is a drawing of a boat... http://www.pdgart.com/Lands_files/Pan82a.gif

This is pretty hard to judge over time and per person... In my own experience: When I was 15-20 moderate sexual activity was 2 instead of 3 or more girls a day... But that was in the late 60's early 70's when we had very few sexually transmitted diseases compared to these days & all the girls I knew were on the pill -(and I looked much better too)... Over time things have changed for me personally and in the times we live... there is a great and sensible fear of promescuity now that did not exist when I was younger. Also The whole jing retention thing should be taken seriously by those who are disposed to do so and have a deep spiritual yearning to acchieve what is offered by such practices... so for each one of us we need to ascertain what is best at the time -not go by some formulaic process that may screw-up our well being...

"...consensual reality" instead of "mutual reality." Even with only two people I doubt a "mutual reality" can exist - perception being as individual and dynamic as it is...." Though this is conceptually true - I also trust that the Oneness of Taoist precepts can transcend the individual barriers that our seperate realities dictate...In the molecular levels we are all one...( as I picture our shared existance in the quantum explanation, again only as I am able to understand it)...our minds and physical beings do indeed coexist as interchangable energies/masses in time and space. The question of immortal spirit is another realm that may need to be addressed in these issues - be they trans-mutated in reincarnation or somehow morphed in a heaven/hell scenario can be argued ad nausium... But as a Taoist (wannabe) I hold us all to be essentially one (in spirit) and individual only in the realm of our senses...

There are those who's whole existance resides in the dust...some who reside as the mirror and others who assume the nature of the stand...It can change for each and inter-change for many ... there is no value inherent in each state of being -being the most able of mirrors, stands or dust each has value in our lives and in those of whom we inter-act... Learning what/who you are when you are that being-no matter what form you take on...( or in what circumstances you may find yourself at any time/space coordinant)... is becoming an aware being...Doing the best you can with your own reality is the challange we face - or so I am thinking now-...

I for one will look forward to another shore and make sure my boat remains in good repair...

I think we are addressing two seperate forms of avoidence and or reaction here. One is of the moment and reactive to the physical attack on one's body... the other a manifestation of inner anger stored or acquired at previous states of being... There are very different reactions and states of mind attached to these states of being. One calls for instantanious choices to be made as danger arises and the other is more contemplative and long-term in nature. Taoism does not hold such a passivistic view of life. All actions have a place and time to be natural and non-judgemental in nature/attitude. The moment by moment reality is where we find our awareness of proper activity, being in the moment and accepting of all facits of nature . We then address the limits and extensions of our powers to live as best we can... There is little value placed on non-violence per se...As long as - It is not used as a force to coerce or inforce will... it is used to protect and administer just admonishment or the staying of excessive coercion from outside... BALANCE is the key in my minds' view of these things... the "right and wrong" of them is almost irrelavent in the most part, because the appropriate response can be a smile at... or a blow to the head of... those we confront/share with... in our mutual reality... I for one do not accept many Buddist notions of right and wrong action...the value judgements used are not my values.

I found myself startled at the juxtaposition of ethics and science... I thought about how we must indeed have a huge amount of ethics for any important work IN science... because the results of our knowledge of science can (and Has often) been a threat to well-being when misapplied... we have a need to grow and learn as a spieces step by step spirit and physical awareness hand-in-hand...

That goat knew damn well that something "bad" was happening to him... & NOT that the outcome would be a physical change that could bring a more peaceful life (such as it is)... there was no "knowledge" of this in the goat...He knew that there was pain and terror at hand... he had no way of knowing that he would be a calmer goat there after- or until the herders wanted another piece of him... We, as humans, have a better grasp of what futures will arise from present cercumstances... or most of us could if we put our minds to it... The ignorance that evokes violence due to inner anger is not the blind rush of avoidence due to real pain and terror that having ones' balls nabbed would incure...There are very different things to fear and/or accept in life. That some of us can transcend the horrors inflicted upon us and others lash-out is the question here... Are Buddahs teachings of "turning the other cheek" a threat to our well-being? Not if Karma is real to us... Other wise it is prudent to take that eye for an eye...

Papa Paul- 'tis cool daddyo- yr thoughts are a blessing here- BUT...may I please have a bit of syrup with those pancakes!? Aunt Jemimah is in the cupboard and I am off to get some aggs and milk -I am inspired!!! -love to all-wayfarer (8x8)

pussycats are dangerous too! Though usually I try to be forebaring and let things pass that are only related to money and matterialism...Since some lawyers stole my inheritance, I am feeling dangerous these days and need to calm myself into a state of acceptance of this just being my karma... Jing retention and meditation ain't cutting it when there are a few lawyers who I think are evil incarnate...So at this point in time... My energy is dangerous and no amount of calming influence is making me deal with my anger other than keeping me from actually doing harm to these miscriants... I shall stay as calm as I am able until this awful feeling passes as all feeling pass...

Maybe Mao was right that religion is the opiate of the people!!! or... perhaps we just need to take a step back and relate our deepest inner beings to a realm of existeance that does not differentiate from a place of ego, but from that of cosmic oneness... Then all thoughts are dangerous and all thoughts are laughable and all thoughts are sweet as a baby's breath...Intent and direction - moment by moment - dictate harm and blessings... any given thing or idea has no intrinsic value or danger without the moment that it exists in as the true context of its character for each moment it exists.... or maybe not...

Albert Einstein once quiped that god does not roll dice with the universe...As a great scientific mind he still related his views of the cosmos through a belief system that encluded a "diety" that held sway over the whole scheme ...This has always fascinated me. I for one, have deep faith in reason as well as reasons to have a deep faith...but this last is not like a Christian belief system nor any other religious belief system that I have studied as yet...But there is my " Taoist" sense that there is a oneness of consciousness within the essence of all of life...I have not yet found a true scientific study of such a force within nature but I do believe it to be so... If someone belittles the scientific process as too "humanistic" or self serving they may have a valid point...even as quantum theory predicts that the observer will always change the result of the experiment etc... The subjective /objective realities touched on by father paul as to inner space and outer space having their own realms of discovery that exclude each-other does not ring true for me... I do think that there is a common ground for all searching through various means and techniques that will eventually show us that spirit is a real thing as is any other form of energy...

The rooting aspect of the horse stance used as a basic of Hung Gar is well known... I have found it to be very useful and most folks who have studied any ShaoLin should have a "firm" stance to begin with. Isn't stance work, that includes a "rooting" aspect a prerequisit of most martial arts?