Wayfarer64

Interesting.. Is there some knowledge David S and Sean D have of knowledge - that would be dangerous for David, that Pietro doesn't seem to remember? oooh- more mystery and hidden agendas...or just another opportunity to sell tickets to the snake-oil show?. Black-mail can only work if there is somethng to hide. It is pretty obvious that David has poor judgement - just by his setting Denty up as his mouth-piece. It shows a clear lack of ability to see what a person's correct path may be. Why would anyone trust a teacher who makes such a choice? This is his own face to the cyber-world and he chooses an arrogant, ignorant shill. Even if there was some truth to David's abilities who could believe it when promoted thusly... Buyer beware. If black-mail is a real, and self-admitted - threat, then there is something to hide. Pietro -do you remember such a thing? Or is it just that the whole set-up leads nowhere?

Denty- You are a vapid liar and a fool Denty. You have tried very hard to provoke me because I have shown you to be a liar and a fool. From the start I have called you on your lies and bull shit. If you choose to believe that I have threatened you then add that to your other misconceptions -I have warned you that in life there are consiquences to ones provocations. Wise up fool. You are selling to a crowd that has now seen through you-that a few lost seekers are buying into your sale of snake oil is sad for them - the money would be better spent on charity work. I have taken on Guliani and he backed down . The high lords of Latin Kings had a hit out on me -I am still here they are in jail, the KKK left me for dead in'83. Still here. I have fought real fights against lies and liars all my life. You are a fraud representing a fraud. You have shown us nothing but empty book- learning smoke and broken mirrors trying to sell your mentors' lies and empty promises. At this time my activities for tenants rights has brought one of the states' highest profile law firms in to represent the largest landlord in the Nation-AIMCO, my landlord- this in an effort to evict me and "undo" me - many have tried -least of all you punk... liars are a dime a dozen and that is all you are - well read perhaps but nothing but a fraud. You have shown us nothing but an arrogant disregard for the practices of any other traditions - this is foolish. We know better now than to listen to your smug lies and snake oil salesmanship. So -run along boy - your greatest accomplishment in life may be provoking me. At least you have made an enemy worthy of the name -As I concider you as a faximily of a man- you are not worthy to be my enemy pipsqueek- you are pure bull shit wrapped in erudition and smug arrogance. No more

No Denty, I have had it with you. I concider these interactions as face to face on some levels. You have provoked me and I am serious. I am generally proud of my enemies. You would not be much of one. But If I ever do meet you I can guarantee you that you will be shitting yourself within five minutes. And I doubt I will even have to touch you. You are not above your actions and niether am I. We are what we do, and what we say. You have gone too far. You act as if you want a fight and then back off with more BS. Rest assured I hope to meet you one day. I advise an appology is offered to me before then. I repeat - you may not insult me as you have been and not provoke my animosity. This is real. It is no threat. It is my reality. I concider your language a verbal attack on me and a challange to my martial arts lineage. I advise you to stop your provocations, as there will be a reply that you will not enjoy. I think you are a liar, a shill, and a coward. Pimp is too cool a name for you. You have no street cred, fool. Do you really think that you can get away with such arrogance on a Taoist site, belittling Shaolin traditions? I think that David Sham has to be a fool to allow you to represent him anywhere, in any fashion. My training is no game. There are no parlor tricks. We have a tradition of projecting qi with some affectiveness. My Tradition of developing qi is martial. I do not seek anything but an apology from you. Get it done. I am willing to see if Sham can protect himself from my Kung Fu and zap me with his magic crap. I do not take this shit lightly Denty, believe it punk. If you want to start something with real practitioners of ancient martial traditions, you are a fool many times over. Stop provoking people here. Period. Come to what little senses you may have and appologize as if you were a man and then begin again trying to behave as one should on a public forum that has many points of view. I do not concider the people on these threads to be expendable cartoons in some cyber void. These are real people who you have attacked as if there was no reality attached. I can change your mind about that. This is real. You have provoked me and I am not going away just because you now want me to. I will only if and when you appologize. Otherwise I will continue to call you on your empty lies and general BS everytime I feel like it. I have commended your erudition. Book learning is a nice thing to have, but you exhibit nothing but empty knowledge.NOTHING. We all derserve this appology from you. I require it. You have insulted Shaolin tradition, I will defend it at every level. Now wise up boy. Learn not to step on a tigers' tail. I am no seeker of enlightenment at the cost of my inner animal nature. For me it is a complete package - Five animals are part of that package. You seem to want to provoke the snake in me. You do not really want to meet my snake, he plucks eyes. My tiger breaks bones. The dragon creates internal bleeding. Why do you insist on pissing us off? Are you really that stupid? Do you not understand martial tradition? You may not call me out and then act as if it means nothing. In my tradition it means something. It means you want me to be your enemy. If you do not want to be my enemy appologize. Simple and direct.

Sean, You poor poor thing. You seem so empty, so angst ridden, mirroring your fears and faults onto others. My mother died of cancer two years ago Sean, after I cared for her over many, many months. You seem to want someone to kick your ass Sean. If that would help you I would be sad to do so. You can not go around insulting people like this. Some of us may take your childish ass to task. Seriously. Do not address me like that any more. This is a fair warning Sean Denty, I do not take crap like that from anyone. So now you had better get real and fast. You do not want to make an enemy of me. I am an old time street fighter. I have been knifed and I have broken peoples bones. I travel a lot. I expect an appology. After which, I will put you back on the ignore list after all of three days off. I strongly advise anyone else that finds this childish BS from such a fool so very tiresome to do so as well. It makes this forum much more civilized.

Yo Yoda, check out the Green Tara I have for sale - I give you very special good-buddy price... http://www.pdgart.com/Thangkas1.html enjoy dude - she is the real thing

I am blushing Harry with gratitude and humility. Many thanks for your kindness here as always-Pat

I studied with a Grand Master in the HungGar tradition of shaolin. We were not allowed to teach or study outside of the system, but we also paid NO MONEY to become "inner desciples" and learn some amazing things. We painted his house, schleped what ever was needed by him, we even chipped in and I bought a lions' head in Hong Kong and a huge drum to ship it in - that became the pride of our system the next New Year's celebration, and beyond. I was spit upon and had garbage thrown at me as I made my way to the little store that sold the lions' head and drum. It was deep in Hong Kongs' crazy-quilt of by-ways. When I came out no one spit at me and many were contrite. I got many bows and meek smiles. Respect is earned through activity and then the understanding of what the other is doing. My Master's Master had scorned him at one time for teaching us round eyes. But years later he also began to teach westerners. Things change. Anyone can grow, grow up and open up over time - with the help of compassion and an open mind. Maybe even Sean D. I hope so, he seems to have some potential, if a bit emotionally high strung. His erudition has clouded his receptors and reality may be a hard smack to him when he arrives at it one day. Let us try to be kind to him. His arrogance is his own enemy to conquer, not ours. All we can do is help him become aware of it. So- I wish you well Sean, you have chosen a path you seem ill suited for. By the way - I took you off my ignore list a few days ago-just in time for more insults to Sean O et al. You have something to offer, and continue to obfuscate the good that has evolved in you with an arrogance & single-minded approach to these matters. You may be right in what you say - but it remains very difficult to hear the truth of it through the emotionalism and immaturity of your approach. I have grave doubts about David Shens' ability to lead a student to knowledge if your diatribes are an example of character and comportment that he condones, much less wants to represent him. You have my respect as a loyal student , but you lost it long ago as a person. I wish that weren't so. I honor all traditions that I incounter around the world. I value them beyond the vapid and silly culture that is my own country's sad legacy. I have done what I can to "raise the bar" for our cultural axpressions- produced plays in Hollywood and art shows in Mexico etc. etc. . I value human beings' amazing abilities to transform their inner creativity into expressions of devinity. There are myriad ways we do this. They are not all superceded by one lineage of teachers. There are just too many things outside of any system to allow for preeminance in these matters. Many of us here are trying very hard to be the best people we can be, through many systems and traditions. None of us should devalue the others. Questions and insights and amusement at the expense of another's traditions are uncomfortible and awkward, but also an all too human response to what we are threatened by. Namaste-PDG

Hi -I have always used the YiJing (I Ching) to apply Taoist ideas to my everyday life. I sugest the Wilhelm/Baynes translation to start with. You should meditate on an issue for 20 minutes or so and throw the coins (or toss yarrow sticks etc... with your questions in mind. I will take this opportunity to plug my own book- Which Sean has so kindly been running a banner for here at the TaoBums... The wayfarer Sonnets which were written as companions to the YiJing- http://www.lulu.com/pdgart- There are several poems on line to give an idea of the books' content. Enjoy - don't worry about the path you are on, go Jedi and "feel the force !" It may help ya- PDG

Hi Leigh - I sent you a reply already on yr in-house email, I hope that works out... Here's an idea of what I can do with/from some of the works I've created in the past...- Namaste-Pat... http://www.pdgart.com/pdgswrk.html

After thinking about this for a little while - I would replace myself going for Darin H. going as he seems to actually be in need of such possible help. What do ya say sky-jumper? Can ya do this thing?

This has my interest. I have an idea that I am supposed to go to China to find a teacher, but am having trouble working it out. So I add myself to the list with Sean O and Cam as the other two candidates of my choice... I meet with the man who has offered me a job in China tomorrow, so I shall know what my position is much better on Monday. I am sceptical about Sean D.'s claims for David's system due to several factors that I have expressed on other threads. But with my past training and general open-minded approach I see this as a good thing. So I volunteer for this learning experience also. If the many items I have for sale on my web site would sell, I could pay for much of the trip myself...as planned. I would only require the added expences of the course itself. So pray for sales @ www.pdgart.com and I will be able to pay for the trip to lessen the burden of the efforts at hand... So help me help you help me to do this and maybe we can have two perspectives to glean info from about this remarkable sounding system. Seans' and mine as well. I look forward to all and any experiences ahead with an open mind.- Pat

Thank you all for those thoughts. They got me to think about this some more as well. I hold a belief that each of us, as well as the other life forms in this universe, are made up of several types of components, or energies. We have our bodies that are each a shifting - ever changing mass of molecules put together into a magnificent "machine" that offers us a life form. Humans are very lucky and have amazing capasities that most other creatures do not. But those functions also distract us from the simpler systems that most animals enjoy...tho they are there for us to experience if we allow ourselves to get back in touch with that part of ouselves... that is being at one with the natural world, not just our human constructs...This is not to be confused with returning to "the Tao" as it were -but just returning to the more down to earth aspects of our potentials. I also believe that we have a spiritual componant that has the capasity to go through many deaths and rebirths until it is fulfilled and then melds back into the Tao, from which it came. There seem to be a huge number of levels of consciousness. Some of these are available only under extreme circumstances such as near death , intense meditation and other esoteric practices often mentioned on these threads... After having experienced a few out of body events I can hold a belief that my consciousness is not dependent on my body. Some may argue that these experiences were halucenatory etc. I don't think that they were. So I believe that I will have a life after the death of this body. What that will be like, I do not know for sure. If it is half as interesting as this journey has been I can only look foreward to it with anticipation, and little to fear. I suspect it will be even more interesting and full of wonders beyond my ken at this time...

I got a big kick from looking through this site- It may not be new to some ... But there is also a sense of humor here that attracted me. http://www.globalserve.net/~sarlo/Ratings.htm

Do you mean find a teacher? You need to be a bit more specific in what you are looking for. Please check out my own web links for some ideas... http://www.pdgart.com/lipnf.html And if you spend some time with us here at the TaoBums you may just pick up a few hints as to what Taoism is (and aint)... happy searching!

SURFING A PHILOSOPHY SITE I CAME ACROSS THIS ENTRY AND THOUGHT OF THIS THREAD... http://www.iep.utm.edu/s/sexualit.htm... Among the many topics explored by the philosophy of sexuality are procreation, contraception, celibacy, marriage, adultery, casual sex, flirting, prostitution, homosexuality, masturbation, seduction, rape, sexual harassment, sadomasochism, pornography, bestiality, and pedophilia. What do all these things have in common? All are related in various ways to the vast domain of human sexuality. That is, they are related, on the one hand, to the human desires and activities that involve the search for and attainment of sexual pleasure or satisfaction and, on the other hand, to the human desires and activities that involve the creation of new human beings. For it is a natural feature of human beings that certain sorts of behaviors and certain bodily organs are and can be employed either for pleasure or for reproduction, or for both. The philosophy of sexuality explores these topics both conceptually and normatively. Conceptual analysis is carried out in the philosophy of sexuality in order to clarify the fundamental notions of sexual desire and sexual activity. Conceptual analysis is also carried out in attempting to arrive at satisfactory definitions of adultery, prostitution, rape, pornography, and so forth. Conceptual analysis (for example: what are the distinctive features of a desire that make it sexual desire instead of something else? In what ways does seduction differ from nonviolent rape?) is often difficult and seemingly picky, but proves rewarding in unanticipated and surprising ways. Normative philosophy of sexuality inquires about the value of sexual activity and sexual pleasure and of the various forms they take. Thus the philosophy of sexuality is concerned with the perennial questions of sexual morality and constitutes a large branch of applied ethics . Normative philosophy of sexuality investigates what contribution is made to the good or virtuous life by sexuality, and tries to determine what moral obligations we have to refrain from performing certain sexual acts and what moral permissions we have to engage in others. Some philosophers of sexuality carry out conceptual analysis and the study of sexual ethics separately. They believe that it is one thing to define a sexual phenomenon (such as rape or adultery) and quite another thing to evaluate it. Other philosophers of sexuality believe that a robust distinction between defining a sexual phenomenon and arriving at moral evaluations of it cannot be made, that analyses of sexual concepts and moral evaluations of sexual acts influence each other. Whether there actually is a tidy distinction between values and morals, on the one hand, and natural, social, or conceptual facts, on the other hand, is one of those fascinating, endlessly debated issues in philosophy, and is not limited to the philosophy of sexuality.

Cat -I really meant that to be funny-I guess ya had to be there... Didn't someone mention you as being very attractive several weeks ago? Maybe I reverted to more cyber-flirting there...Please realize I meant no offence. But the question does seem to be one of what Joe Campbell called the Anima/us or basic male urge to connect to his object of desire -which is in Freaudian terms an archtypical mother image...Where eros first developed in the first year or two of being nurtured. Infants - both male and female pick up on the resentments or devotions displayed by the mother. Much of our later sources of attraction stem from those early feelings of nurturing. There seems to be a more refined system with women than men. They have to "select" a type to be attracted to more than men do. The male figure is usually gleaned from the male population in a way that is less about physical attributes, as the father was a secondary image introduced from the outside of the original early post-natal period, when mother was the whole world to any infant. So women are usually more complex in their societal discernments then guys who know what they want at a pretty basic level which was formed earlier in life. I read a study once that proposed the idea that very premature babies - that were kept alive for their first weeks in an incubator never develope an emotional context to relate to the world with. They remain undeveloped as people, seldom reaching a normal level of emotional maturity... So it would seem that the first few weeks of life and how we are cared for- ends up forming much of our later developement... Even our druthers concerning sexual partners on up the maturation ladder to who we may grow/fall into a real love with.

Thank you so much Taomeow! That is what my take is as well, clean and neat and functional, is the first and foremost direction to take. It makes me feel good to have that reaffirmed by you. I have read the idiots guide and did like it. I may buy a copy... the others I don't know. I was given a copy of Master Lam Kam Chuens' book and like some aspects of it relating to the astrological and ordinal considerations. And it is pretty user friendly for beginners too. But he too brings up a few Buddhist considerations in his jacket notes, which didn't really bother me at the time. See ya 'round cyber space- Pat

I think it is pretty common that fear (in general) can become desire fo sex.... feeling sexy after any tense and exhilerating or fearsome experience- Often after being in danger many and various folks get horney as hell (when they are safe again). That the guy in question was looking at an over-weight woman when this kicked in, justs shows his preferences to be loosely based in the first place. - The explanations are pretty interesting though - of how this shift of "mental energy" travels through the neurol net ... Fear=sexy=stuff happens... I guess it is possible to seduce someone by saving them from danger, without being James Bond. Maybe the dangers of promiscuity make it all the more sexy?!

Are you suggesting that you are a bit unattractive but sincere, with such an offer? Or are you just trying to point out that attractive women get more responses to sexual come-ons than sincere, but less attractive women do? That all depends on the recipiant of the request, of course... I responded at first to what I thought was an honest person seeking to learn a new, perhaps healthier, way to share her sexuality. I admit if there was a, (or I had a mental) - picture af an extremely UNattractive woman for my mind to ponder, I would not have responded as I did. I would not have been attracted. But i would have been supportive. One does need to be attracted to give a positive response to such an offer. In fact Michelle became quite unattractive to me - due to her insincerity. Even if she were a real knock-out -she still would have lost much of her charm by displaying such dishonesty. Honesty and openness are crucial to transcendant love-making. Being attracted to a sexual partner is far more complex an issue than just good looks vs character. How many marriages have started full of passion and yet the partners never reached a state of compassion and thus there was no real and lasting love? There are just too many levels of connectedness to make a simple answer for ya. But rest assured physically attractive women get more attention from sexually active (and not gay) males than do the much less attractive. But there is someone, or even several someones -in the mythical Michelle's case - for everyone's taste alive. And yes indeed Dublin is a great place to visit and live! I wish I had spent more time there!

Thanks Taomeow for those concrete stories that point to Feng Shui's possibilities. I am very interested in how feng Shui works -and sense it as a function of space and time as you discribe. I know just enough for folks to come to me for advise on it which I tend to disallow. The basic -keep yr home clean and clear; creating harmony and the easy flow of energy, as well as the basic placement of the baguas is all I will offer. I always preface the help I offer as scant and surface, without depth. But I am trying to learn more in an effort to be of more help. For myself, I have delved into the influence of my horoscope and the home itself, and the alignment of my horoscope with the directions of the compass...All very basic. My concern right now is how the everyday vageries of life will disturb the feng shui so often, creating clutter and blockages, or color changes and the arising of pointed projections into the living area. These things are pretty unavoidable. What aspects do you think of as most important to maintain? Also what books do you suggest to get a better grasp of feng shui's potentials? with many thanks- Pat

Ian & Paul- Obviously we all know nothing, yet we each believe that we know something or other. Still, the communication is often hard to grapple with. Some try to use this board to field ideas and get feed-back, others use it to express opinions with scant regard for feed-back, others to assert opinions as fact. The communication varies greatly between us. Some connect; some don't. That's only natural IMHO... Ian, I too find Fatherpaul to be obscure at times, but also at other times enlightening. That has been the case with most who enter their thoughts regularly. It is an irksome style that you offer to us here FatherPaul, but I for one, am willing to wade through the obfuscation to glean what your content may tender. My go-round with Denty is an extreme example of contentions getting out of hand. I learned a lot from it. I now would rather cherry-pick from his entries than nit-pick at his (IMHO) - rudeness and meanness of spirit. Communication is the heart of the matter here. So there is bound to be some contention. But to the thread- Dream time in some cultures is the real life of their beings. In what I sumise from quantum theory, all is mind and energy at a basic level and our "reality" is ephimeral at best. I believe that we each have had dreams that seemed "real" and that we have experienced aspects of awakened mind that may have eluded our conscious mind. I recently posted a philosophical look at mind and brain interaction. The difference between in body and out of body consciousness is a deep and often disturbing question. My experience of out of body consciousness is pretty unsettling. Durring out of body consciousness the mind is free and very exposed to forces and energies that our brains shield us from when we are "awake" in this reality that is shared and agreed to by us all as that which is "physical".... I have experienced some out of body consciousness while asleep, while in dire danger, while making love and while meditating. The qualities were very different as were my own energy levels. But it is an aspect of my own consciousness that I wish to explore further. I have accepted the word -Kah as that which names the disembodied spirit. I am not sure which culture this word derives from. In a sense it is as if we are our own gaurdian angels, being aware of that "seperate" reality- as Castinada called it - only adds to our deeper experience of this "reality"... It does not threaten my rational mind that such experiences are available. At one time, my rational mind tended to just reject the "reality" of those experiences. But my spiritual self remembers and relates to that larger sense of self. It may not seem rational to want to experience that sort of death-like consciousness, but I believe it keeps me tied to my original spiritual realm of consciousness. I do not "remember" past lives but I do remember being in the womb and being born, and much more of my early childhood than most seem to remember. Children and animals sense the world on very basic levels of being. Sensing the inner spirit of things, places, other animals &/or other people... rather than the outer realities. For me the difference of these types of consciousnesses is just a matter of depth. The spiritual reality is always there to be aware of or "in". This is if and when I am able to manage it. Which is seldom enough indeed.

Darin, I know you are human and I hope you know that my heart is going out to you with this problem. Taomeow hits on many truths there... I too have known my own idiocy too many times to remember all of them. (nor would I want to dwell on them)... I also in no way think yr attempts through the strict following of your course was in any way a failure or waste or anything but a stepping stone. I just wanted to express the joy of having options available that may differ from the ones you have tried -and that they may also be worth your while. As I think on this I can also see the merit in giving the whole thing a once-over and actually getting a teacher such as J. Yuen to help-it can't hurt. I realize that perhaps you were only expressing a certain amount of exhaustion, not lameness-sorry for the harsh wording. It is just the deep sense of "nothing" being found that you expressed -that has me seeing real change as the way to go. But please be assured that many here are with you in spirit and with an all too human love that will often fail in the use of words. Hang tuff sky-jumper there is furthering in your efforts no matter what they are!- Pat

Darin !!! Unless you are kidding-?! What the hell is this ?! IF you have indeed gone through all that you relate to us here -then this just seems bizzzzzarr beyond belief to me. I am now incredulous about this whole thing. I am sorry, but it no longer rings true to me. How can you be so diligent in one way and so lame in another? Or it may be that there is one of those psychological blocks at work here-as fearing to succeed may manifest...Or a fear of meeting a teacher who may indeed change yr life ....It just seems so - odd. I wish you luck and all the joys of the world. I believe that the whole process has indeed left you more empty of life and purpose than if you had just spent yr time "smelling the roses " as it were...I do not wish to cause a rukus with this... but my mind has been blown by yr last entry here!- Namaste-PDG

Hey-! I ain't getting on his back! I agree with ya Mythmaker to a large degree- but I also guess that when someone asks for advice they just want some feed-back and new perspectives to mull over- to be taken with a peck o' salt anyway.- It would be rude and maybe even cold to not respond with our own perspectives on the issue at hand. So Darin please accept my thinking as just that -it is not meant to sway your activities in any direction!

Darin, After going through all of that, you deserve some sort of something!. It is a path that I would not attempt -because it would not be a natural path for me to attempt. I do not believe it is the modifications you made but the expectations you retain that get in the way of your finding some realization from all this- (what would be for me)-a dire trial. I suggest going out and finding someone to share all that pent-up sexual energy with. Find a loving, kind and giving soul who wants to share. Share your deepest self with another whom you love. Stand back and have a good laugh with yourself and realize that there is no fooling mother-nature. My take on this is as such... One's own spirituality can not be programed nor built like a temple is built. It is not built at all, but found when our consciousness gets in touch with the sacred/devine spark within our selves. It is not created out of the manipulations of our mortal substance; but realized from our opening up to the world around us. The immortality is there already. It is your own eternal being that came from the spirit that all life shares. You just let your consciousness get there and it will let you know. The body consciousness (karmic) does not really want your spiritual consciousness (Dhamic) to get any attention. I'd try the opposite of all you have done and see what happens... I think you will feel a very different sort of self emerge that may have a stronger contact with the purely spiritual part of your being. No amount of any sort of practice will grant awakening, until your own mind accepts that no matter what happens to you the rest of the world will probably not notice anyway...And that encludes your own perceptions! In any case it is a remarkable story of devotion and effort that can be an inspiration, or an object lesson in striving's empty promise. Maybe just open your mind to the possibility that stepping off any given path sometimes offers a new and deeper perspective than the one you were given directions for...The journey is almost always more rewarding than the arrival anyway. namaste-Pat PS -edit in - I thought of one of my sonnets that may apply...Sticking to one way of doing things is a limitation... (60) Limitation With destiny and the projected self vying for choice and force We need maturity to not regret lost options now made clear to us. Will and fate can each hold sway, and both have a claim on course Which brings us to understand why youth is esteemed so dear to us . We watch improbabilities pass expectation's borrowed dream Where the possible extends all boundaries with no end of range. When lake water receiving rain slips its bank becoming stream Who can remember anything that has not known a change? We each cope with unique starts, fresh circumstance galore Which sets us on various paths to find our pursuits fulfilled. With fresh options bestowed in time, each moment a new door… Winning efforts convince us that our performance is self-willed. While an elder’s jaded grasp on death’s surety may be kept on hold Whelps and neophyte’s sense of immortality induces them to be bold.