Wayfarer64

Now that we have a change of climate and season and day-light hours and a time to be thankful for Passover (ifn yr Jewish), I am thinking of all the posts I've added to various topic threads; while still seeing the new ones appear, develop and then also recede into the memory banks... much as the flow of any one of our own conscious minds dwells on subjects and then moves on. As if our collective mind has created a memory bank... It seems as if we have a shared experience of a wonderful sort here and I just want to take this time to thank Sean once again for this extraordinary meeting of minds! And thanks to each & every-one & all of you too! - Wayfarer

Addressing the absurdism of life may be the best reason for seeking and questing into spiritual realms of consciousness. If good humour is the back-ground hum of creations' manifestation, all the better! Transcending the grip of physical needs and desires to become accepting of each moments' trial or treat - as if it were just a transitory and changable cercumstance, may bring one into the universal flow... The many problems we face and over-come seem trivial after some time has passed, but they take extraordinary attention while they are with us, as the reality we face. Accepting these moments as if they had already passed is not the answer though... We are in the now and have responsibilities to make our choices moment by moment. But what of the times when real wrongs are done to us? It is very hard to let them go un-avenged. In fact, evil needs to be faced and brought to task when it is known of. But that also adds to our kharma in a possibly negative way as in a burden of proof in the intent and out-come is needed to show no blaim attaches to facilitating kharmic retribution. We act or do not act, and then hopefully face our choices with courage. The mathematician, John Nash's theory of the common good being a factor in making choices for the self, is also a sort of enlightened view point. So it seems to me accepting that we are part of a larger whole is key to enlightenment. Morality and other such human constructs are very different from person to person and do not seem to hold much weight in the balance of a life's meaning. Compassion and honesty are more universal in nature and may have some weight to lend in evaluating intent and purpose in terms of judging one's inlightenment. There may be degrees of enlightenment for us to work through as evolving beings. With back-sliding as part of the first levels and a sort of rebirth as a reformed consciousness in the last. It does seem to be a journey as well as a destination.

Anyone ever try to stand an egg on its' end? Does it only work at 12:00 AM as depicted on West Wing? Who knows this? Snow still here too in central NJ. I'm needing some warmth to get stuff done!- Enjoy them changes!

Hi Japphy & Taomeow, Many thanks for yr responses... I guess on further contemplation I can agree that we have atrophied some abilities as a species. But, if indeed we once had a greater communion of spirit in generations past, I think that the scientific knowledge we have gained can now be reapplied to those dormant abilities and we may be awakened at a new level of compitance and undestanding of those abilities. As in without dangerous supersticions. Some of us still commune with nature and each other, so it is not dead as a genetic trait or practice. And I am hopeful for those of us who feel the power of plants and animals and still react to the world with an inner acceptance that is not naive but aware and atuned, (or at least open to) the whole cosmos... In fact it seems from a sampling of just us TaoBums- there is still some damn fine shamanistic potential! The race ain't run-out yet. Sure, we've brought ourselves to a brink and may indeed be gone in a blink - but perhaps we can get it together and pull back from the abyss to reclaim our heritage as spiritual beings on a magnificent planet that offers all the things needed for our spirits to evolve. Challanges and joys aplenty...

Being sensitive has many conotations. Most folks are much more sensitive to the slings and arrows flung at them than as to how their own barbs disaffect those who receive the bad vibes. It seems to me that being aware of how we inter-act with all other life forms needs to be looked at if we are ever to expand our consciousness. I think of these potential sensitivities as part of the larger evolution of the human species. Expanding our mind-set to enclude all of life is a basic Taoist goal for me. The whole stalking aspect goes to the hunter-prey relationship that constitutes so much of the worlds' eco-system. That the honoring and admiration of the prey was a basic part of many culture's hunting techniques may be because it caused the prey to accept its fate through love and admiration and gratitude, not just the hunters' need for food. This scenario may also go to explain a basic inter-action of will and fate. Accepting that oneself is now to become the food of another creature may be the ultimate sacrifice and revealation of some life forms. We each have to give and receive many forms of energy to sustain life and also give it deeper meaning and purpose.

Hey TL, I should have gotten it, as I'm usually throwing around the puns and quips etc... I guess I'm losing my sense of humour...

Hi again, Michael, why do you think that meeting such an evolved person as an "immortal" would bring out such a negative response? I have never met an immortal but hope I could share some time with one if I do. And why wouldn't the very act of transcendance that could manifest as what has been discribed to us as the attributes of an immortals' being - be a job in itself? Artists, musicians, poets and philosophers, even theoretical mathamaticians - have often been chided and derided for not having a "real job". I find such views disturbing. When one is driven and works for years at creating a body of creative works, who are we to deny them merit? The example of V. Van Gogh comes to mind. He was not given any credence when alive and now his works are among the most valued. Many aspects of human evolution may be mental rather than physical from now on.

Hi Michael, I've already shared most of my experiences of out of body and near-death and of my sharing thoughts with beings that exist in another dimention than the reality we all experience, ( in a way that is at least similar enough to recognize as the same). These experiences happened to me. They are difficult for many people to conceptualize as an accepted part of our potential experiences in this shared reality. They were not psychotic episodes. I have communicated with friends and loved ones while asleep, and we shared the remembered experience in "reality" over the phone - soon after. I have deep bonds with those who have died that I loved when they lived. I often know when someone dies before I hear tell of it. Our spirits are real. Our consciousness can exist outside of our bodies. I have no doubt of these aspects of reality as I experience it. I do not think it extraordinary. We are all connected on a dynamic level of energy and consciousness. The tic-toc of time and matter has a firm grasp on us because life is so very sweet and sharing this reality of energy slowed down to become matter is a real blessing to learn from. We are here to learn and propogate more life perhaps, or whatever our purpose may be, I hope we may each find it for ourselves and find our bliss in the doing of what calls to us. I do not recomend the path that I learned these things on. It was brutal and terrifying. But in the long-run a great boon to me as I continue to grow. I sure hope this quest bares fruit for you, as it seems to be very much on your mind here... Peace my brother- Pat

I first heard Dawkins' ideas on a PBS series that I remember as -"The Incredible Accident" or something silmilar, which was a round-robin of profound thinkers from several disciplins. I understand many people's frustration with the many narrow-minded concepts being pawned off as religious thinking. Religion has aften gotten in the way of spitituality. In many cases religion has been the evil depicted by Dawkins. But as is the case with any net dropped onto a subject as large as religion, the myths are thankfully nabbed, but alas with the experiental being swept into the catch-all... & so, an injustice is done to those who's minds are expanded and nurtured by spirituality as well as given depth through scientific disciplines. These ways of seeing the world/universe are not mutually exclusive. In fact this is one reason that Taoism has such a strong pull for me. It is based on observance of nature, and an acceptance of nature as the role-model for our own evolution as spiritual beings. I just reread the Celestine Prophesy and enjoyed it again. Even these sorts of books that offer a novelized version of spiritual questing have merit for me. I wonder what it is that Dawkins fears beyond the obvious nonsence of so much religious thinking? His narrow-minded approach is as worrisome as any other dogmatic approach to the subject of human spirituality.

Hey there Cloud Recluse, I've missed your input of late. I hope you remain somewhat less reclusive for a while. I agree with your points and can only add that I do not know why/how the Yi Jing works as it does... Jung has some explanations due to synchronocity and the oneness of all life, but it is something of a mystery for some folks' logical levels of mental constructs. It works for those who "get it" and trust it. It seems to give in a meaningful way. This is extraordinary to me. Even my family and friends seldom give me gifts I want or need and they supposedly thought about them as offerings to better my life as they see it. Meditation helps the process and an open hearted attempt at doing positive things with the results is also a boon to the process. It has not let me down in the 40 years I've been using it as a window into the wider world and where I fit into it. stay well out there -Pat

Please be VERY careful when reducing the meds for bi-polar sufferers. I once dated a woman who was bi-polar and when she missed her meds she became very dangerous to herself and others.

I just read that Mayan Shamans are cleansing sites that G.W. Bush visits , to rid them of evil spirits....Trying to follow up on that story I found this and thought of this thread- http://www.mayanmajix.com/art2234.html

I don't want to intrude with a very intense aspect to the subject of this great thread, but the interactions I have had with celestial beings, that seemed intent on helping me, all happened when I was under severe duress. I have had a few near-death experiences, and each time I experienced a being or beings that seemed to be living as light or some glowing manifestation of being. In any case they were always female and incredibly kind and supportive and giving and nurturing and each time I believe they gave me the strength to stay alive. Once after several days of suffering, one even took my spiritual place within my own body to tender some relief to my inner, deepest self. I think of these beings as angelic if not angels -how else can I put a name to them?! These entities or spiritual manifestations were always sharers of an almost pure compassion. Very similar to the experience I had upon meeting the Dalai Lama -which I have written of here before... Some say we are each blessed with a group of angelic spirits that serve to protect us. I believe I have met a few of mine. With strong faith in the inherent "goodness" of that which we hold as our true spirit, many harsh realities may be overcome and transcended. Sometimes we need gentle reminders or help, from our guardian angels.

I have little Chinese to speak of (pun intended)- But I think that the "the" in the way as tao translates is meant to indicate it as a noun... Will the Chinese speakers among us please clarify!? In any case I don't think that there is an inherent non-tao in using the word as a noun... the concept is still the over-all unifier that unites the many dichotomies within it...as the source of all and the manifestation as well as the realization through time and space of all ... it remains a oneness...Without ever coming into being as a seperate "it" ... all energy, matter, anti-matter and thought are still manifestations of the way things are... We change the way things are by our activities...As does all of life, manifesting change and life and will and being... or just what have you...and even that does not come close toexplaning anything!

I mean inept in terms of expression. There is traditionaly no way to express the Tao and to try to do so is to miss the point of its essence. There is no apt way to express the Tao,-traditionaly... I in fact, believe that we do a fair job of it here... Amongst ourselves we are searching through the structures of language to find a bit of terra firma to stand on, in order to survey the landscape of what we are exploring. All this in the inner-space of our own consciousness...How could we not be inept in using any word to discribe The Way? No words can discribe the process of understanding our union with the one and all...Still, we try... and inept or not; we often get our inner meaning across... namaste- PDG

Wecome to da Bums! I hope your inner searchings bring you new & wonderous ways to be you- Namaste-Pat

Here is a link to some of my Taoist Poetry. I hope you enjoy them... http://www.lulu.com/browse/preview.php?fCID=265718

Hi there One & All- Once again the variety of responses speaks volumes. The points I would add/argue are: 1- The Tao is indeed a more appropriate usage-the Tao says nothing. It is just an inept word to discribe a mental concept/construct. 2- There are no proscribed activities in Taoism per se... there is a time and place for all and every activity. The inner meaning of our activities will remain a mystery much of the time. But we can maintain mindfulness as we go about our lives and concern ourselves with the resulting reality our activities will produce. Motives are important here... 3,- I hold the Yi Jing ( I Ching)- to be the "bible" of Taoist literature- it is the touch-stone of The Way for me. But this is not the case for all Taoists. 4.- The Tao is a concept of universal unity... That at a basic level of existence, all life stems from the same source, and that the seperatness we live in may be transcended to allow us an existence of being that is at one with the universe, natural and whole.-All this in a realm of constant change. 5.- Living as part of the whole universe more than as a seperate entity is not easy to do. We are hard-wired to be selfish in our intentions. Stay well- PDG

What are the levels we feel? Contented,Happy, Joyous, exstatic,transcendant, at peace...These are each conditions that offer us energy and hopefulness and help us to look forward and advance our questing... Apathy, dullness, sadness, sorrowfulness, grief, and anger distract and impead our way forward. These are many ways to feel and some lead to others, or even the shedding of them leads to the opposite sense of being... The way of Moksha has only joy and the shared sense of well-being. Connecting with the oneness of all life within ourselves offers the way out and up from our sorrows...Our deepest most profound selves know only joyfull oneness with the cosmic spirit of life. When we keep our minds on that prize we can remain in a state of grace as it were. My own Consciousness is a pretty flexable ride that often seems like a freaking roller-coaster. My inner self has found a great fountain of peace that keeps getting dammed and diverted by the things in my life that I allow to disaffect me. It is indeed very difficult not to become angry and sad when things go wrong in our lives. These down-turns away from happiness can come from our own failings or when other people let us down. Not many of us can limit all of our desires or keep our intentions pure. But we can try to be the best we can be. And that tenders a pretty good chance of inner peace amid the world's confabulations and tribulations.

I can relate to feeling deeply about fictional characters. Emotianal connections may seem vapid when they are induced by fiction, but they still touch us on deep levels of tenderness and/or antipathy. Just as our friends and relations make us both angry and happy. There are many books, paintings, music and movies, etc... that I think of as old friends, because they touched me in a way that stuck with me through time and changes. There may be a deeper sense of emotion wrought by the seemingly silly modes of communication than the more serious. Intellectual depth does not make for better much less happier people. Often the more we know the sadder, and therefore more useless, we become. Sadness saps us, happiness invigorates. We humans are a complex lot. I believe that we each have a deep internal connection to the One & All. In other words, our deepest being is of spirit that is connected to all of life. That we are also created with hard-wired urges to project our energies and striving to support our selves on the physical plane is often at odds with our inner realization that we are all one, and not seperated by our ever-more insulated lives. It would seem that the toon you mention was written to tug at heart-strings and show the dichotomy of our nature. One recent movie- The Departed, for another instance, likewise had many conflicted characters who were both evil and well-meaning. In fact, the most evil people I have met- (neonazis), thought themselves to be agents of The Lord, clearing the earth of Jews and Blacks and Catholics et al... I wrote that it is the deep inner connection to all of life that I believe is the purest good in people's nature. Anything that works to advance our own druthers-(not needs or protections), but negates other life on earth is a wrong done, in my way of thinking. Basic needs and protections from the hazards of life can not be set aside easily. That a fictional character gave her life for one she loved above her own life is a deep and sacred act of selflessness. If such an act can change the nature of an evil character by awakening the knowledge of love, once shared and now gone; and the prescious nature of such a sharing. That it is a tender thing that may even be possible beyond imagination... I am not sure if such a redemption of inner self will count for much against a life-time of horror; but it may be all any one of us needs to start on the new direction towards awakened consciousness. I see things as if what comes our way while we strive to live/have our goals in life, is what becomes our lives. How we go about manifesting our energies creates our Kharma.

Great advice QiDr.... My ideas have some similarities... I keep hoping and praying that youth is not wasted on the young. It is the time to gain experience, a time to be exaltant in life's exquisite bounty. Youth is not the time to dwell on the coming of one's old age, beyond the basic awareness that it will come and time is a precsious gift. There are stages to all growth, seed to sapling to tree to compost, so it is with all being. Use what you have - to the fullest while you may. The journey is a great joy much of the time. I do not believe that life is only for overcoming our selfishness, but also to develop our selves to become pure of spirit, one in all. So I suggest to all who are still young to dwell in the now and grow beyond your current limitations as you are able. Gaining both strength and wisdom to enable your spirit to manifest wonderous examples of human ability, and learn the joy of using those abilities to help the world you live in become a better world for all of life. Old age is not to be feared. It may be approached as a perfect time for reflection and meditation. Think about how you use time. We all do waste much of our lives in needless worry and desire. Being contented with small progress or impatient for large changes each have their place in the flux of change. Learn to adapt to the changing world around you. That seems to be accelerating at a very rapid pace to me. Many securities may be left in the dust,so your inner self needs to be strong.

The variety of answers sort of speaks for itself. Each of us have a purpose and a way to be ourselves. To be in our own Tao as it were, while cultivation is expanding awareness and development of our energies to become one with the natural world by developing a greater awareness of, & ability to manifest, our path as part of it. And to realize that it will always be changing! That is cyclical in nature but also linear as a moment by moment progress... There are the three basic levels of being, Kharma, Artha, and Dharma. Each level has requirements that need to be met and lessons to be learned. We each have a path to walk that all lead back to the source of our being, or the Tao. So it is natural that we are each at different points of awareness and levels of intent etc... It is bewildering that the Tao is everything and also the source of everything and the result of everything and it is always changing. And even that does not begin to touch on it. So for me it is now just a way to find some peace in the world. A quiet spot to grow older and wiser and let the world do its spinning. But that may not be my fate, I may end up livin' large as an entertainment mogul in China...Who Knows? Karma is real to me and I know that I can not avoid the path I am meant to take, just as the Earth has its groove in the fabric of space/time, we each have an orbit to live within. Most of life is a surprise and we need to be adjustable to the possibilities. I find the Yi Jing has always been a big help for me to calm my center and get a grip on the changes as they are predicted and arise...This is the root of my Taoist sense of being. Linking to the wider world as a whole being aware and contented to be just a mere particle of life in the vast ocean of flux and energy and yes the Pattern of life that is spreading across the expanding vastness of cosmic time and space... Our possibilities are boundless, and remain so as long as we open ourselves to life's changing ways and find a way to be ourselves amid the amazing organic oneness of it all...Blending ourselves into the dance,with the whole of existance as our partner. In such ways our orbits may expand and we grow as beings. The more we take in and make our own the more we become a part of the wider world, be it qigong or hatha yaoga or stillness meditation or learning how to play a musical instrument or making love, cooking and eating... its all a part of our being in the Tao. Enjoy and reflect, suffer and grow, staying aware and in the moment. This reality is an amazing gift to share !

Hi there Bums- Here are a few more links that may be of interest in these subjects... http://www.metmuseum.org/toah http://www.timelineindex.com http://www.utexas.edu/courses/denbow/worldmap/archworld.htm

Dear TaoBums, After two days of cleaning and re-feng-shui-ing my crib, I took the 17th as my traditional day of mourning-(my mom et al died on Feb. 17)... This year, it seemed very apt to finish the past year in a real transcendant spirit of leaving the past as it is and moving on... The 18th I spent 2 hours in meditation, trying standing meditation for the first time and finding it a great change from my usual sitting style...I'm thinking of now going from my morning's hatha-yoga stretches into a standing meditation as a usual rutine...So looking at new beginings and better ways to be has already started for me this lunar new year... I wish you all great good fortune and all the blessings of spiritual furthering that may be attained... Namaste- Pat