Wayfarer64

Hi there Cat et al... I recently added an idea to another thread that applies here as well... Thesis plus antithesis may come to equate with synthesis, and a step forward with renewed insights and perspective. But this intails the absorbtion of both the thesis and antithesis to be able to snythesize the combination into a new viewpoint. There are far too many axes being ground for many of us to get through the clamor, to then stand beyond the din with new meaning wrought from all the input... Some have even disparaged the very idea of common civility amongst us and tried to bully their ideas into the discussions with the hubris of any supposedly well-educated fool who is selfishly unaware of the world around them...These are the attitudes of our sorry-ass times. If only a course in civics 101 could be offered in our school systems instead of the "f--k yr buddy" approach to human interaction that our new zietgest (which seems geared towards a corporate mentality)...offers our youth. Getting ahead for your own sake and ego is now the accepted rule. When the concepts of common respect, community and Compassion are laughed down as a rule, what do you expect? Boorish louts prevail and succeed with the admiration from those who do not seek a better world, only a better life for themselves. The golden rule, once a corner-stone of almost all civilized belief systems has gone the way of most good manners...Remembered only to be scoffed at... We seek what we value. We find only what we are able to understand. Any idea seems vapid and will only serve as more noise, if it can not be "gotten"... I am hoping that this message was sharp enough to not need honing and I was able to cut-through rather than add to - the clamor... So it may be that we should ask ourselves-What do I value and seek? Why do I do what I do? The Kundalini master, the Shaolin master and other vatious wonderous folks who have shared with and taught me are as yet being synthesized. These forums help to add perspectives and humor and sharing to the mix, but I don't expect much else... And my voice should also not be taken seriously by anyone who doesn't know me...I can only hope that the compassion comes through and no ire is raised... Namaste-Pat

Some folks say what you don't know can't hurt you. I say what you don't know can't help you. I was always a scholarly kid with subjects that interested me, but a poor student in my class-room studies. It seems that with some time just thinking about what you really really want from this life, you may find a place to develope your interests into a way to make a living and be fullfilled. Get to know yourself and your natural propensities. Then learn where these interests and skills may be best nurtured...Trying jobs on for size as it were is what my summers were always about. I worked every summer since I was 9. Very early on, I learned that I do not like working for other people, that is - having a boss. In the 44 years I have been working, I have only had a boss some 45 weeks. But now, if I ever do want to work for someone else, there is little to induce them to hire me. I am too independent for most jobs to be offered my way now. So keep your options open for as long as you need to look around and find your place to be the whole person of your potential's full streych...

Some sessions with my Hung Gar Master consisted of nothing but standing in horse stance. Period. These were two hour sessions and few of us lasted more than 45 minutes, without coming out of the stance. Only deep meditation techniques kept me at it. Pools of sweat were under us after only 20 minutes or so and we groaned and moaned. Usually after an hour or so, Master Chung would come around and kick the backs of our knees trying to knock us down. At first I let this happen, as a way to get some relief. After a few years I could take the kick and stay erect. But I don't think I ever lasted much more than an hour without some relaxation or change of posture, either popping up for a moment or bobbing some etc... I find any forced stillness a sort of instant jump into meditative mode now. On buses, trains, etc. I naturally start to meditate, pray, chant to myself, go inward in some way. That is if I am alone. If with someone I know I usually will converse with them... So meditation may be practiced anywhere, anytime I have even tried to be meditative while making love -as a shared experience trying to stay connected at deeper levels while sharing our bodies. I think that this practice may be called Yabyum or some such...I first heard of it in The Dharma Bums by Kerouac- for which this site is named... I'll bet there are some serious practitioners of this around here, huh

This has been a topic here in the USA for a while... how the largest media giants are trying to convince the Federal Communications Commission and Congress to give them more control of/over web content. Basically trying to make it so the highest paying customers get faster/better services. IE , If you buy advertising with Yahoo, you get faster connections etc... By denying the ad MySpace is pre-empting part the decission that is to be made in the next several hours. The campaign to raise consciousness about the issue has been around for several weeks. The My Space incident is just one recent example of the fight being waged. It is the last day before the axe falls as it were, this campaign has not been directed overseas, so that may be part of the problem you are having catching-up - as it were with what this intails... even tho - if Common Cause and it's (MY also) allies fail, you too will get worse service and a more obvious lack of content where-ever you may be, when trying to access sites going through the various media fighting for the "pay to play" scenerio...

Hey there Sean, Save for the tree being sort of scraggly by pictoral necessity, this is a pretty usefull depiction of the many "branches" of activity and stillness that we can practice- thanks - I for one appreciate that activities addressing social concerns are placed in close proximity to the "sun-light" each branch needs to flourish...... Stay well all ! & as someone once said ...stay mindful!-

Dera MF- The issue was created by the activties of Big Corporate Media trying to have a Binding RULE passed BY THE FCC, that would allow them to further tighten their grip on web content. Common Cause has opted to make this issue one that they address. (A view of one of their ads can be seen at the bottom of my art biz's web-site's front page - http://www.pdgart.com ) As a founder and President of a Not for Profit organization, I can attest to the cold need to ask for funding at every opportunity. There is never enough money to counter the interests of those who wallow in wealth and power, yet would take these things and more, away from us. On a personal level, I lost a dear friend when his family sold out their Media interests to Murdock several years ago and I chastized him for it. They got 5 billion for the media outlets they sold to him. That sort of wealth is hard to turn down. It is the way of the world and it is very hard to sway opinions on any issue. But the knowledge to choose and react is an important element in the equation. Common Cause has served to make me aware of several issues that I would not have even known about if it weren't for their activities.

In Paul Levy's book The Madness of George W. Bush: A Reflection of our Collective Psychosis he points out that one of the fundamental psychological dynamics in-forming the crisis that is playing out in our world is the unwillingness to "consciously experience" our own sense of shame, guilt and sin. This turning away from the darker part of ourselves that pervades the entire field exists within each one of us in potential. This contraction against our own shadow side is an active dynamic reveals itself to us as it gets "dreamed up" in the "outside" world. This inner psychological process of turning away from our own darkness is giving shape to collective events in our world. I just came across this on another site - newrealities- it seemed pertinant to a few threads going on here of late

I believe that every spirit is already immortal. The attainment of Taoist immortality is the realization of this. There is no new gaining of being only awareness.

"Physicists and biologists report that all our cells arise and pass away, that even atoms and molecules shift away, degrade, change" That is sort of my point... Even after our cells have died off (which happens every 7-8 years or so), there is still a conscious being within/without. My thoughts on this spring from a few out-of -body experiences and memories of pre-birth times and faces etc... An interesting aside- is what happens with Alzhimer's, where the memory is gone but the body remains. The spirit could very well be vacated also...Who knows how such anomalies pertain to these questions, but they are worth looking into... The difference to me is the difference between spirit and personality, what we are if/when we become immortal, is not what many may think it to be. Memories go with consciousness, the inner being has not become other, only the personality has been minimilized. This having been said, I believe that manifesting Immortality on this plane of existance is surely possible. I have friends who have played the part of immortals in parades in Taiwan, and they claimed a taking-over of their personality occured- much as fire-walkers on Bali go into trance and can withstand the fire etc...Consciousness of self is transformed. The body/personality and spirit/consciousness can be seperated is my point...Personality is that which dies. Spirit, Life-force or Qi whatever we wish to call the manifestation of the Tao within us will go on. How seperate it remains from the rest of this energy is perhaps the question. Why would one wish to remain seperate as an entity? Star-Jumper- Since you are kind enough to offer me a clue, I wonder how it is that you do not know the difference between being and awareness, one can be aware of a state of being, while not being in that state of being, or BE in a state of consciousness, and unaware that there are others)... The search for immortality as I have often enough read of it here, sometimes seems to be counter to the concepts of building a productive life in the here and now. Craving a life beyond that of our fellow earthlings is a very hard and esoteric path to choose. I am only hoping that 50 years hence those who have spent so much time and effort in these questings are not disapointed by the lack of change within themselves, as they keep a hold on their personality and hope to change their spirit through their bodies. Letting go of the personality and strengthening the inner being is the idea as I understand it. Manifesting consciousness changes/erases the personality, let your ego go and you will not be so presumptuous as to offer a clue to someone in an effort to make a point.

Is there a similar role played in the growth of these systems, by the later-day proponants of new directions??

The 9/11 responxe has been mentioned a lot. When those miscreant maniacs hit NYC I felt a personal blow had been swung at me. TRIBECA had been my stomping grounds for many years. It was home turf. The courage of the people on the flight forced down in PA also seemed a show of strength that belied the Wahhabi's assumption of inherent American weakness. The pentagon attack seemed a bit more "reasonable" or expected perhaps. All together it was a shocking morning's coffee-time. I went to work anyway, feeling confused and angry. (which often seem to travel together within me) I expected our government to respond to this aggresssion. The world rallied around our nation and we banded together. It seemed for a time that much good could come from this heinous plan, and that it could back-fire.. I had long been a proponant of curtailing the Taliban's insanity by then, so going into Afghanistan always seemed a viable act of agression for me... Then I analized the reasons that brought on the attack. As the Yi Jing has taught me, look within for the cause of your troubles. I don't go so far as Churchill Ward's "little Eichman " scenerio, but I get his point. The corporate control over our government has fostered grief world-wide. I know how I see things is a far cry from how many see it but I'll lay it out here anyway... Unfortunately the Military Industrial powers that be co-opted the situation and led us all astray. The Saudis wanted Iraqi oil controled by their puppets in Washington. (Look at the Carlyle Group for more depth). We were misled in every conceivable way. We gained only more enmity where we could have gained support. To my way of thinking, the cause of the attack and those who misled the response are one and the same. The control of the USA by corporate entities with no soul and no goal but wealth and power. This is what makes me and some others angry still. We have changed nothing but our direction of applied force. Our response was not apt nor appropriate. It has only made the world situation much worse. We should have gone after the Saudi supported Wahhabis, not support their interests. We were duped by our leaders who are puppets of the house of Saud. That the current administration has never had any credability doesn't help. Each of these issues foments anger within me and some others. I direct much time and effort fighting corporate greed and control of governmental processes. The anger helps me to go on...It is not a bad thing - when I am able to direct it at the correct target.

This is pretty interesting stuff! Here are some random thoughts relating to the issue... Caffine was only mentioned once. It has been a catalist of angry energy for me over the years. I still have my morning cup, but try to stay aware of the resulting energy. It has become manageable. I think of anger somewhat like pain. It is there to alert me to a problem that I should be conscious of. If the coffee is a catalist , then I need to look at what the inner cause of anger is, not what manafests it in my energy levels. Sometimes it can save your life , putting one into a fierce state of being that is needed to stave off attack. Like most emotions it can be a useful tool towards self-awareness. This is a very irksome world much of the time. There are sure enough reasons to get PO'd... Both Tolle and LaoTzu have been very good sources of calm for me. Even tho the techniques are different, they are - yet for me, compatible. With Lao Tzu I use memory and projection of the security of gathered qi. With Tolle I use imagination and humor. All are useful tools to reach a calm center. A run/walk always helps as well. But I am sure everyone needs something oddly their-own to deal with these situations. Is it counter-productive to be angry over stuff that I find stupid, like the USA's present administration's direction and activity? I think not. Some anger motivates me to take action and "right the wrongs", I see done in the world... My advocacy and political activity stems in no small part from anger. My anger here has stemmed mostly from what I see as salesmanship as education- a real teacher is not trying to put one over on nor be one-up on others...(which belongs on another thread)...

Hey Sheepish Lord, I want to thank you for sharing this idea and site . I plan to try to raise some funds and consciousness for Tenant's Rights with these kind folks as well. I trust this activity will not step on yr toes at all...If ya want to swap books some time let me know.- PDG

That more than one TaoBum has the same reaction to something you wrote is hardly a hen-party. Communication on any forum isn't easy. There is no need to appologize for any lack there of. We are each only trying to make ourselves clearly understood as best we are able. I am just expressing that I am confused by the series of entries you have offered here. It was a reaction. We are not waiting to pounce on each-other, but most are pretty fiesty about much of what is written. I guess seeking answers is almost always looking for some sort of trouble. If it were easy we would never gain any merit or wisdom. As I just added to another thread- salesmanship is not education- a real teacher is not trying to put one over on, nor be one-up on others.

TaoMeow - It seems that what you are asking for is a fight. Why are you being so cantankerous? Do you expect us to pussy-foot around you while you are complaining about how some of us express our views of your delema? Jung is one of the west's most rational and staunch proponants of Taoism - and much revered by many here - as a pioneer in the exploration of the Tao. The supposition that you are projecting is not so far fetched, nor a closed-minded approach to your question. That you take such umbrage indicates some truth in it. Taking various tacks to get to a destination is the way of these forums, to squelch responses to your question just seems oddly out of synch with what you are asking in the first place. Do you presume to teach us how to respond to your question? Are we to change our ways to suit your needs and assumptions? I am not irritated as yet, just puzzled by your take on these well-meaning responses to ya...

Hey Michael- the doh is all about Homer Simpson having a satori! And again- I don't think many are here to presume to teach, we just want to share our various thoughts and enjoy the comradery of the web. I've flamed out at a few folks that seemed to be up on a high horse-, even while noting to myself that my mount was no less altitudinal in nature when I did so... But now TaoMeow- I need to say that your view of the right and wrong of how we explain ourselves is pretty subjective -the way you are phrasing it...So please don't take these entries so personally -even this one directed right at you is just a wisp in cyberspace... It should not dis-comfort you in the least! namaste- Pat

Hi All- I'm not so sure we can equate sharing with teaching on a forum like this. I know I sure hope to communicate my ideas and will fight pretty hard for what I believe to be the truth. But Does that really also mean I am trying to change other people's minds or they are trying to change my mind? Maybe, or maybe not, as we are trying to help develop our own minds with the discourse as much as anything. This is to say that trying to teach is also trying to change what is in the person's mind into which we are directing our ideas... But sharing our ideas is more of a give and take, with as much fiestyness as we like. I have learned from His Holiness The Dalai Lama, and Grand Master Chung who I studied with, They have exhibited extraordinary abilities. Yet it is also easy for me to see them each as just other men. They changed my life to some degree, but I do not see them as god-like. At least not as seperate from any other person's potential. ... I am grateful and humbled by their powers and attributes, and hope to develop some of their knowledge into my own life. There has not been anyone on the internet that has offered themselves as teachers or offereed their teachers as potential teachers that I could take in the least bit seriously. Some sound better than others, trying to sell one's system of knowledge, as a few have done here, seems sort of desperate. But as the ever apt TheLerner has stated I see myself doing these things too! (as I indeed try to offer my book on line)...Tho I also feel I am trying to share an artistic effort rather more than trying to teach Taoism. I read all of us as equals no matter what levels of becoming enlightened we may have already reached.

Plato, well if this book's program is more about nurturing and bonding than what was first indicated there may indeed be some merit to it... You did not describe the attitude you maintained as anything but clinical, and I do not believe that any program or technique is universal. I am devoutly anti-systematic about techniques for addressing world-wide problems. When I was in Indonesia two American social workers were actually run-out of Jogjyakarta when they tried to "educate" the local moms about modern practices. A sales corp was also similarly shunned when they tried to sell some Nestle's formula to the locals in Thailand - tho the free samples were taken at first. I have written on past threads about how Balinese children are never allowed to touch the ground for a year or so after birth etc...They are always slung in front of mom with breast in reach...I doubt that this tome is as world-shaking as you assume it to be. While I have only dealt with infants in six or seven countries, I have picked up women in some 35 countries on 4 continents. There was never any set approach. I was not calculating. I am as likely to offer myself as the object of aquisition as to be the "hunter" in our mating game. I never had a set stratagy. I think that halped me to find the most vibrant, challanging and interesting women who were available. So yr analogy just does not ring true for me. I guess if I just went to local bars in a section of the USA or some other localized scope of effort, this could be the case- othewise the norms around the globe are far too various to chance a set ruitine. What will bring you a new love in Brooklyn will get you killed or at least castrated in Malaysia. I guess we just have very different world views. So good luck. & happy new year anyway. Side note -I always have a harmonica or two with me everyday everywhere... So I can work out tunes in my head or practice or just amuse myself. I have found that this habit has been the most useful when a baby or youngster is crying. A few bars of lilting, happy music distracts the kids long enough for them to forget the cause of their frustration- which dove-tails with the idea that some babies cry with very little to cry about-I guess that agrees with yr touted book's message some what at least...Only I would rather distract them with the musical attention I give them than listen to the catterwhalling...Chanting should work as well if not better... As this thread has been much more down to earth than most here, I for one appreciate the topic very much!-Thanks again-PDG

Dear QiDr & Tao Meow, There seems to be a slight discrepancy between the way you each measure from what day the new year starts. I assumed that it would be started at the actual new moon -17/18 around the world but TM you are saying that the two week celebrations start two weeks before and end on the 17/18th. Are there variations in practice here or just some confusion as to standard/modern practice...? TM are you using a more purely Taoist measurement or practice? The actual new moon is a given in this, so I guess it is a matter of practice and custom that are variable... When I used to go to my Hung Gar master's Shaolin celebrations it was tied to the actual new moon date - as were the rest of NYC's China Town's related activities...But if TM -you have another way to calculate these dates I am very interested... In any case I sure hope that the new year brings ALL the Tao Bums much prosperity and progress in our cultivation and searchings!

In some areas of China it's a popular custom to give oranges - because in Chinese, the word "orange" sounds like "Ji", which means "good luck". People present oranges to their friends and relatives to express their respects and good wishes for the coming year. Gong Ji Fat Choy or Gong Hoy Fat Choy are typical ways to wish good luck for the New Year... I bet just googling Chinese New Year will get ya some recipes worth trying. TaoMeow- why the 4th and not the 18th as the New Year is more typically celebrated by the Chinese this year!?

SL- I think it best to not take you very seriously when you presume to get Freaudian about my response. I do not supress my crying and indeed I think that in many cases when a baby is crying it is best to let them cry. I am reacting to the cold and calculating way that you explain how you treated the infant intrusted to your care. And the entirely flippant way you describe why you became involved in this project. Also, I do not believe that your limited envolvement with infants gave you the needed insight to make a call as to what was actually irking the kid... To let it cry FOR HOURS and do nothing but observe it just seems plain cruel to me- in the way it was described. I have gleaned very little about the book being proposed from this thread. I did get the idea that this project is more of a whim than a real concern of yours. You are tired of thinking and not doing. In most of the world parents are nothing if not tired of doing. Raising children is seldom taken on lightly. It is not a hobby. I am also a gret believer in keeping very young children close to mom or dad and off the ground. "Nesting" as it were. with kids in bed with the parents is also a very healthy invironment indeed. These attitudes of nurturing were not being expressed in the discription offered. You state that you know exactly why baby's cry. I think this may be the most subjective statement I have yet read on this site. You believe that you know, but we don't even get what each other is saying half the time when writing it out in plain english! This being said- I too can get empathetic ideas and messages from both infants and animals - I believe most of us could if we opened ourselves up to them. I still havee to ask -So why let the infant go through the catharthsis for so long? What did the adoptive parents think of these goings-on? Do they plan to sue you for child abuse? The last is just a quip... but stranger things have happened.

Thanks Lozen, This is a very in depth report on the fire-pig. I enjoy the contemplation of atrology, but don't put very much real faith in the day-to-day aspects of mass-attributes per se... There seems to be much more variety than semblance in these groupings...But I have been astounded at times by some spot-on insights, so I keep an open mind and watch the stars as if they were heaven itself...Which is to say I love astronomy as well... Happy New Year!- Pat

Thanks Sean- great pics! I envy them their ability to give up the wider world for something like true peace of mind -I would hope that such "dropping out" seems to offer such... Maybe when i'm an old(er) man... I also hope you had a great holiday season!- Peace -Pat

Dear Plato, WHOA Baby! Are you actually telling us that this whole idea is just a way for you to get pro-active with your energy and "just DO something!?" This is totally irresponsible! The psychology of an infant is nothing to play games with, no matter how well-meaning you may indeed be with this idea- it is seeming more and more selfish as you explain it! What am I missing? Is this actually some sort of test of us, to see how concerned we are at this proposal? It just gets worse as I get the drift of this thing. There has been no indication of any positive response from the baby after this traumatic eposode. Where is the end result? What is the end result supposed to be? I can not fathom the good to be found in these acts of attention without compassion. WHAT DOES THIS BOOK SAY ABOUT SUCH TACTICS?! No baby I would ever have responsibility for would ever be allowed to take part in such bullshit. It may indeed be concidered illegal by some folks -so- TAKE THE TIME TO THINK!!!! And better yet open your heart to feel and share and respond from your heart to ANY life in distress! I regret that this has brought out such a strong negative reaction to something that may be well-meaning but I really see no value in such tactics...