Wayfarer64

Yo Minimoke- Thank you for the great link! I've added it to my Health & Science links page @- http://www.pdgart.com/lihns.html The skies were over-cast here in NJ - But the past two years were pretty good. I'll try again tonight, if I'm up late again... (The best time is usually around 2-3 AM on the East coast of North America) - - for those meteors out of Leo's asterism...

Hey TL et al- I'm not so sure we can bunch these players so readily. The Chinese went into Tibet, extending their military power... Ne Win took over Burma from the indiginous military and then his power structure enabled the current Junta to keep power. Also many who profess to be pacifists become militerists when confronted with the evils of despots and villany. Once when sharing a shower with a Khmer woman who I loved dearly, I was killing mosquitos as they swarmed around us. Everytime I killed one, she said a prayer. After many prayers, she became annoyed with me for killing so many mosquitoes. I explained that they caused disease and that it was the same as if the communists were attacking us where we were in Thailand...[which they were threatening to do at that time (1982)]... I opined that most of the young men who were practicing as Buddhist monks would then take off their robes and fight the communists. She agreed- of course every Thai man would fight to keep the commies out. I said it was the same with the mosquitoes. She said no it was not because Buddha liked mosquitoes but didn't like communists!!! I was not about to argue that the universal quality of Buddhist tolerance was possible while being extended to commies too. I would have soon seen her inner tigress! (her father had been a doctor & killed by the Khmer Rouge not so long before)...Nor was I about to defend my own slaughter of innocent life. I in fact just went into stealth mode with my self-defence and let her believe I had learned to tolerate the dangerous little bastards! So my cowardess in not risking a real arguement, made me a sneak while I kept killing in self defence! So all of these reactions are possible in each of us...often enough our inner beliefs can be shunted aside when we find ourselves too angry for reasoning and compassion...As well as the case when those with more inner strength and inate compassion may quell their anger and not rise to the bait-as it were...Or a middle way of accepting that the need for self defence creates hateful conditions sometimes... This is another reason for my holding to Taoism beyond my cherishing the Buddhist teachings and Christian teachings of pacifism, even through villany. I accept the will to fight as a terrible component of human life. Still. I have seen that it is often the only thing that can stop the march of evil tides arrising... I hold those who are unwilling to fight as beings who I am willing to protect if nessecary, be they Amish or Buddhist or even those who are just too freaking scared to confront the force of miscreant powermongers... I'll take the "bad Kharma" of violence over the acceptance of real evils gaining real power over any of us...

Dem Eyes are only in their heads!- I've only just heard of organite on this site. So I have no expeience with it. A buddy o'mine once grew some great herbs with co2 canasters at the ready and very fortified soil and seeds from Amsterdam. It gave me visions of laughing myself into appoplexy in a chocolate filled bathtub...It was astounding how funny everything became when that crop was in the mix...Sublime rediculeousness. Maybe a comfy couch and a TV turned to the food channel would chill out them spudniks- couch potatoes are only a menace to themselves Better to be out a-farmin'!

Dear Senor Turtle, What is that yr doin? Do you bounce the ball with yr legs or roll that ball around pivoting on yr hands or slide back-n-forth on the top of it, or were you just falling off of it there!? I've seen trained bears walk around, rolling on balls like that. So, what is the experiment? It sounds abdominal and may be abominable in a small apartment... Keep 'er rollin!

Hey there Eric! Welcome to the Tao Bums ! Enjoy your experiencs here... There is so much to share amongst us - one and all...

Welcome Sen!- We've connected on the Bahai thread which i started in the hope of learning more about the Bahai teachings and philosophy. I hope to learn more from you as we go along.- Namaste- Pat PS please visit my own web-site to get to know me better- http://www.pdgart.com

Wait a minute!!! The world is perfect just as it is! It offers us each the challange to make it and ourselves better. What more could you want? We may be able to see the nature of our reality more clearly through the prism of Taoism, this does not lend us a right to lead the world or presume anything other than any given truth we find On Our Way... Each in our own seperate (yet intrinsicly entwined) manner of being in these moments of our lives. I fear for the arrogance inherant in this idea now! Scientists are no better than bums - if the bums create peace and leave small foot-prints on this earth, while the scientists probe with prurient fingers only to be answered with Spring for all the troubles they cause! Making little physical impact on this precisely balanced orb of life has far more merit than changing the chemical structure of plastics to make them pierce body-armor... Read any poetry by Gary Snyder. Also read The Dharma Bums by Jack Kerouac and then see if his ode to proto-hippidom and getting back to the earth has less meaning than genetic manipulations- and then read Desolation Angels, about his experience as a forest fire-watcher deep in the green world of wood and rock and sky and stream,(and away from the world of men)...You will then care less what some egg-head thinks about what things are named and get to the why things are the way they are, the real science of all inter-connected life so apparent in the poetry of Gary Snyder- who is the original Dharma Bum and would be pleased- I believe - to have the Tao bum association as well... Namaste- from an old freight-hoppin' hippy who is proud to be part of Da Bums! - And often ashamed to be part of the human rat-race.

'Cept for the Organite thing - it is amazing how the basics are so very much the same in our experiences... This is very reassuring to me. I think we all may Need to be farmers sometime in the near future; as I am not sure we will be able to trust our food sources to be as pure as we'd like them to be. Now, we can get expensive organic food and free-range chickens and such at great expense... I just hope that our knowledge will keep us all well fed and healthy. Hey TheLerner -Are the spudians' younguns called tater tots?

Dear Sen, Many thanks for the clarifications... This is what I hoped to glean from this thead. I have lobg thought that Bahai is a very good direction for Islam to take. Yet from what you write - many of it's basic beliefs and would-be structure, now seem to be at risk from its' own leadership, as has been the case in all faiths through-out the ages... What strikes me most about the teaching and purpose explained within your entry is how it is just the opposite of what our American president- Bush II is doing to his own country!!! Wth his undermining the constitution to create a demonic/theocratic warping of our basic structure of government! I am a strong supporter of the ACLU and hope that they can use our laws to protect us from our leaders. I also hope that the Bahais find a way to keep their faith's progress into the future. On another thread there is a discussion of what a one-world government will offer unto us...Many of the suppositions are worrisome. I for one feel the prospect to be pretty wonderfull- as long as cultural/religious diversity still may thrive... I have seen neighborhoods become gentrifide and whole cultures subjegated by powerful forces of wealth and the supposed progress of homoginization...The down side of one-worldism is the dehumanization of our delightful tribal diversity.

Yes. -I'm thinking it was in 1997 that he passed on, a couple years after I closed my bricks & morter galleries.. There were sveral memorials and events around his passing....

What about The Tao 'n' homies? -for some street cred or Up Taoners -just to balance the directional yin/yang thing Tao'n' Outers -is also bum oriented Taosers -for those seeking their own watery level Taoners ... is just too sad Taoters seems apt as we seem a pretty doubtful bunch -or similarly the Tao-Ting Thomases or Taoagers for those of us long in the tooth - same as Taodies Or the Tao Jonesers-too confusing! I say NO to each and every one! Sure, change is good but the name change idea isn't!!! I was thinking of using "Taon Pat" as my stage name when I play the blues. People would think it was "Down Pat" and the down-ness of the blues would work, as well as a sort of cocky surity of my craft as a musician... But I've not done so yet... I once had a very over-weight pal at work who I called Tao-Boy... when he asked me why - I told him "Cause yr always in the way!"...He was convinced I meant Dough-boy because he was so big...He never did get it... I'm spent on this thing!-

Lets not cast such wide nets, please... The evil Dr. Mengela of Nazi experimentations was an avid scientist. Yet evil to the core. Science has been misused in many ways- As Openhiemer said "I am become death" at the first detonation of the Atom bomb...And Alfred Nobel-of peace prize fame was the inventor of TNT, which he later regretted...Gattling invented the machine gun in an attempt to make war too deadly to continue waging! Science has created many wonderous tools and benifits. But most importantly it has given us logical tests of our theories, and enabled us to test reality. People could once make-up any sort of thing they wanted and claim it to be real -before science took hold of reason. People, plants and animals could all morph into one-another before magic became unbelievable etc ... Superstitions are usually backward and troublesome. So are many beliefs taught in bible-schools and Wahhadi schools. Truth is a hard thing to find often enough. We are misled to assume any one or anything holds all of truth. Even my much beloved I Ching has a few falasies to deal with.

As an advocate for tenants rights I have changed how things are done by those in power and how people relate to those who pull the strings. Anyone person can snip the puppet strings of many. Educate each-other to our rights and fight for them. The Powerful are mostly paper-tigers. For the most part the rich & powerful are spoiled and insipid with little character to fall back on. One of the great loves of my life was the daughter of George Berthoin - a founder of the Europen Union, and a real force for a world united in prosperity and peace. He thought I had many false notions of the human potential for diversity amid unity -he was far more pragmatic as opposed to my "cosmic" oneness theory that related to my early understanding of Taoism- he is a pretty devout Catholic too...He is part of the power elite of our world. He is also a good man, who raised wonderful daughters. His rise to power was pretty benign, and well-meaning. Even if the wrong people ended up with the most power-(in my view)... Because there are some truly evil people in the world who love to torture their fellow man. Make no mistake they want to rule and make the world miserable, because they themselves are souless and empty beings. They will inslave the fools who let them. I just viewed the movie "My Dinner With Andre " again... It touches on many of the subjects we discuss here. It is well worth viewing. Again I do not watch TV, but have an extensive collection of movies to relax with, as well as several hundred books to enjoy in my leasure moments. I do not miss the intrusions of the mass media much at all- (only Giants football) - at that not so very much! Be a srvant to your fellow humans and get off the tread-mill of consumerism. You will feel much better about the world and your place in it.

There is already a bigining to a one world government & I for one think it a very good step in the right direction of world Peace and mutual understanding. I trust and believe that Cultural diversity will not go away, but our common humanity will grow stronger. The concept of Namaste is one that is very relavent here. If we relate to the inner god-head and soul of one-another we get past the superfiscial crap and fear. I have seldom had a TV in my home. I miss foot-ball watching at home but find going to the local pizzaria to watch a game adds to the fun. (the guys who work there are mostly Giants fans too). I have been very angry at the current administration inthe USA for fear-mongering and devisiveness. I am very happy now that their power is waning. I think that we need the world to be more united and less sectarian. I also think that Bahai can be a help in Islamic countries to bring a more peaceful view of "the others" from their perspective... so I end once more with Namaste!-

Hey there GT et al- There seems to be only a vague notion of M.P. Hall's connection to Taoism. - As you note above. I do not think yr take on Free-Masonry is altogether in agreement with mine. It was first reintroduced as a very egalitarian society/club wherein members of the working classes could mingle with the upper classes in England/Scotland -(where the class system was very strict & is still somewhat more rigid than much of the world's social systems)...This was primarily an effort to get builders and architects together in a convivial setting. It was not meant to become an elitest organization. I was sworn into the Chinese Free Masons many years ago as a student of Grand Master W. Chung. Shaolin was introduced into America via this society long ago. There is little connection between the Chinese Free Masons and the Scotish/British system. I have also been invited to join the Free Masons of NYC and indeed was a guest at a few of their rites many years ago. I did not join them. But I do have a few friends who are Masons and they are not elitist- they are regular guys with little social clout. So, I still don't see the elitest Taoist angle. The Chinese Shaolin- Free-Masons are not the English/Scotish Free-Masons. Shaolin Free-Masonry is not Free-Masonry in the Western tradition. The elitism of the skull & crossbones bunch is just the ignorant hubris of inane frat boys who are spoiled rotten ala our current prez. There is no room for such an arrogant and vapid credo in true Taoist value systems. Though of course there is room for it in the Tao! I find that M. P. Hall is not such a viable source of information. He seems to be pulling much of what I have read by him fresh from his arse! That Jung borrowed from him surprises me. So if that is the case I shall take a new look at Mr. Manly Palmer Hall....But my previous take on him only tendered a strong scepticism.

I have always felt that what we don't know can surely hurt us and it is what we know that will help us get through the struggles toward the light of reasoning-out how this world works... My first pull towards Taoism as a belief system that I could relate to and hold onto - was when I realized how science friendly the philosophy truly is. Are these inclinations toward gathering knowledge to be construed as elitest? The idea of elite Taoists came up before and was made much fun of. I am now concerned that this is a real phenomenon! What the dickens is an elite Taoist? Are we to believe they live amongst us?! Do they ride in carriages and have concubines? What are the dues to be paid for entry into such a club? Can those of any race even apply? Is there a Manchurian connection? Hubris is not a well accepted or sought-after quality in Taoist teachings. It is one personality quirk which any true Taoist would try to rid themselves of. Am I to now believe there is some wriggle room in this activity? Can I let my egotism flower and seek some control over my comrades... ( in true fellowship of course!) I am confused by these tidings of elitism. What gives?

I have been growing veggies and tomatoes etc on & off for many years. I advize finding out about your home turf and what grows best there before planting. I also know that sun-flowers put out a chemical from their roots that will inhibit the growth of other plants-so keep them seperated and use the same spot for them each season. I have always been a digger/planter. Worms are very good in the compost heap- and also in the ground where you plant as they will airate the soil... Any additives depend on what sort of soil you have to begin with... Have fun!!! & Bon appititttte!

This is a very confusing topic. I also thought that Bhodisatva was the topic what is/are bodi-savas?

As an avid proponant of the Beat Generation's contributions to our culture, I have a deep affinity for the title of Tao Bum. Before their deaths, I got to know Allen Ginsberg, - (just a little through a few of his students and family friends) . Herbert Hunke often visited my art gallery on E. 11th Street. Other Beat poets were great influences on my life and work. The Dharma Bums itself is a wonderful story of seekers at work and play... Also - most of the greatest Taoist monks would also be considered "bums" by those striving to maintain a more materialistic life style... While shedding our selves (that which dies) - to develop our inner beings (that which is eternal)- leaves little else to be desired, so such internal efforts may indeed develop within us a propensity, seemingly - to be bums. I like being associated with the Bumitude/Beatitude that transcends the attitudes of materialistic worldlyness... The freeest I ever felt was riding freight trains from St.Cloud to Spokane, bein' a bum indeed! Besides all of that -the sniveling Dick Nixon used to call me and my tribe "bums" when we worked to stop and indeed did end up stopping his damn war in Viet Nam. I have always thought of the term as one of honor since then, even after that louse was ousted! I think we would smell as sweet by any other name, but hey- " bum " works for me! -so I say- Hallalluliah Im a BUM! Namaste- from an old freight-hoppin rail-rider.

Yo Yoda! I believe I added a link to my health & science links page for these guys- http://www.pdgart.com/lihns.html. There may be other links on that page which could help find what yr looking for as well-I hope so- Namaste-Pat

Hi there Jordan, I have been pretty down at times also. And stress has jumped on board to give me anxious moments and even then a seemingly endless train of events piled up until i just couldn't believe how bad things had gotten...and I too felt on the edge of desperate means to find some relief. I began my efforts to change my life by realizing & remembering that I had already been through the worst of it and managed to be able to laugh at the irony and unbelievable aspects of what had befallen me - and even though the joke was on me -I had to laugh at the sheer folly of my situation. Then I began a serious schedule of walking. I tried to walk five miles every day and usually did so. In the most beautiful woods I could find-old growth and full of wild-life. If this is not possible any quiet destination will do- a church or a good friend's home or the bakery where you went as a kid, anything to improve yr mood will be of some benifit. But it was the walking itself that gave me an outlet for my pent-up energy and tired me some and just made me feel much better. I also began an effort to meditate an hour a day. I cut back on red-meat as I understand it may create some chemical reactions that raise blood pressure and machismo etc... I cut wayback on my coffee intake and ate more greens and fruit and generally did those things I've always heard were good for me. The effort to make my self feel better was reinforced with a sense that I deserved to feel better, and that my life style was what had layed me low to some extent. I also drank a glass or two of good red wine every night I admitted to myself and those who I had troubled that I had made mistakes and taken foolish options. I then thought through what the mistakes were and how I could get beyond them and basically took stock of myself. Honest introspection is our greatest source of strength. With this tool we can see ourselves and our place in the world clearly and truly. Walking and thinking honestly about my own values and how they relate to my true needs helped me put my life into focus. My very understanding and supportive girl friend at that time was also a great help in keeping my spirits up. Sharing love just can't be beat for giving hope and real joy to the shared life it creates. It does sound as if you may need to speak to someone who can offer a deeper evaluation of what is really troubling you, and help you to work through the mental processes needed to regain your best way to be. In any case I wish you well and hope that the wacky/wonderous nature of this forum can loosen-up some of the angst yr living with. There is some very heavy and amazing stuff on this site and the sheer wonder of it all may just lift your spirits some! I hope so.

This has come up in a few topic threads already, but it may be useful to mull- it over in ernest. There is a tangable yearning for answers to questions about humanity's spiritual potential here. Generally we have been calling it seeking enlightenment or awareness, as a way to express the subject in words. For some it would be called something else yet still have a primarily spiritual component. Several techniques and methods have been shared. It has struck me that there is a gulf between the striving methods and the letting-go methods. It may be that these techniques have there place at different times in one's search. It may be that the imagined "goals" are very different for each of us. Each being may have a very different experience of awareness and spiritual realization. Or it may be the difference between self-realization and the loss of self in the One/All... I think that we each continue to evolve as spiritual beings while having our various human experiences. Our human potentials seem so vast, there is room for huge variations on every level of those potentials. Can one strive to let go? Or is it let-go to attain? Is there a Taoist middle way for us to travel?

I like how this thread has aspects that now relate to the recent thread about our recollection of dreams from Lerner... The wakeful mind and the sub-conscious mind often seem to vie for attention within me. And therein is the crux of seeking for me! The attention given to any aspect of existance is what being in the moment consists of. Our attentive mind is the observer that can look down on our bodies as we have out of body experiences or near-death incounters...Our attentive mind is that which our conscious and sub-conscious seek to occupy. If we stay aware of the attentive aspect of our nature- or that which holds the reins of being in the now, perhaps this is when we can consider ourselves to be awakened??! How we let ourselves flow or drive ourselves into this level of wakefulness seems to matter very little.

Hey there Lerner I very much like the new psychadelic avatar! Did the shrooms discussion awaken the old hippy in ya? But into the breach of this thread- I usually can remember my last dream pretty well, and sometimes a few of them. I also have been meaning to write down these recollections of my dreams when I awaken, but often find my mind racing on into the day ahead, (and what I need to do to catch-up with "my life"). I find if I go directly to take a shower The hot water and soothing atmosphere allows me to mull over the dream(s) that I can recall. But alas even when I do this they seem to fade quickly if I don't make a real effort to hang onto them. My conscious mind doesn't seem to want to spend time going over what my sub-conscious is processing. I have kept pen/paper by my bed for many years to jot-down "real world" ideas and lines for poems etc... but seldom tried to keep a record of my dreaming - those I did try to keep seemed pretty incoherant and got tossed out anyway! -Tho much of that problem stemmed from really crappy penmanship, leaving a scribble is worse than nothing, it reinforces my waking mind's resentmant of wasting time... So - to do a real study I would need to create a true discipline for myself to make the effort. with maybe a voice activated tape-recorder... Jung is an aid for my interpretations, at least more than Freaud... I was just interupted by three Jahovah's witnesses -they got about three words in edge-wise as I explained several different religions to them! (Mostly Taoism o'course)...And why I have problems believing in the bible... Namaste- which was Another thing I explained to them as they left...

Sean Denty's recent forum entry has an interesting letter about this subject. I will defer to that thread. But my personal answer would be: one and two are contradictions of each-other. If there is the second there is no need of the first. #2 1st- Becoming energy and transforming consciousness into other life forms seems likely to me after having experienced a few out of body, and near-death experiences. #1- I have seen no evidence of physical immortality in any life form on earth. The earth itself is due to be engulfed by the expansion of the sun in the far distant future. So there would have to be space travel to another solar system, in the mean time for an immortal earthling to survive that-- in a continuous physical form. So I guess since my mind is turning this way I am thinking these are scientifically and spiritually debatable propositions. Again I would defer to the letter that Sean Denty posted earlier. Still and all, I can't imagine such an incredibly ancient human to be viable, because the energy intake would eventually not be enough to maintain the ever-aging human body. I believe that everything has a life-span and if we live life in a way that benefits the whole of life of this planet, we will not be sorry to go on to new existances. Which is a way of saying that we can achieve a kind of immortality by being wonderously giving of ourselves and our "god-given" talents while we are here. Bach or Mozart are immortal this way, Bobby Dylan is likely a living immortal in this regard, Many, such as the founding fathers of the US of America, Confuscius or the likes of Shakespear and even Jerry Lewis, to say nothing of Jesus and Lao Tzu, may be seen today as immortal earthlings. And perhaps there is a life-span to that as well. Many one-time greats have been forgotten in our collective consciousness...So it may be that "Collective" consciousness is the key to such an incarnation...It is not answerable with my limited knowledge, but interesting to think about... This planet may have produced many hundreds of such spiritualy immortal beings. I for one look forward to jamming with Jimi on the next one, I don't plan on being late.