-O-

Not leaving just letting the avatar and the purpose behind it go away - been slowly getting around to it for the last week or so, but things like work keep getting in the way - while at the same time can't help but jump into the discussions.

I think it is worth noting too that the teachers here, are here to facilitate students as well as other more professional pursuits ; not here as individuals to just discuss and banter back and forth. I know when I was in that position there is an assumed authority and for effeciencies sake you don't want to be bogged down with a ton of questions. Just give the answer and move on. I think when they bump into folks that are not looking for professional advice or may not be interested in thier particular authority, ...who don't just take an answer on their authority, it can become frustrating and I guess if you are a bit sensitive that would become defensiveness... I try to give them that latitude. It becomes a different game when that "professional advice" wanders out of their area of expertise.. say into assessment of the person or assumptions as to what a persons true intentions are etc. (esspecially if that proclaimation is assumed to be from spiritual awareness or some other nonsense). The ones here not as their students can find that a bit over the top and react defensively too. I think over time I would have knee jerk reactions and get defensive if I was here with as an expert and a bunch of folks didn't accept that... What I find obvious is the defensiveness or assumption that certain people are always there just to attack etc. or are always reacting from a certain agenda. I remember once posting a question to a teacher. He had made a statement which I thought was really insightful... the reaction was really hostile - that I was trolling him out to discredit him. It was just the opposite... I think if anyone (teacher of not) is operating from that mindset, then they need to take a break. No matter how many words we've read from other people- we do not know who they are. Our assumptions on their intentions or agendas reveal as much to us, if not more, about who we are than who they are. Its at a point now where I can't post at all without it being assumed that I'm attacking "teachers"... but I have picked up those battles in the past, and I don't take a person's authority on title alone (behaviour is important) so I guess it is not unreasonable to expect people to react that way... all the more reason for -o- to fade way. I think the best is just let them say their piece and move on - the rest of us bantering types seem to get along just fine. And it is from that ilk that I find the best insight aswell.

If I remember correctly, the perr review had difficulty in forming adequate crystals at all, like 1 in 500 might be worth looking at. So the consensus I believe had more to do with chance than consciousness.

LOL

Eastern religions have always been very good at "absorbing" the ideas and icons of other religions when they move into those areas.... for instance in Northern India and Nepal there isn't a big distinction between Budhism and Hinduism - they pray at each others temples etc... and Buddha is considered to be one of the 5 Vajrasatvas - but so is Jesus... There are some who think Early Christian teaching have seeds in the east as well,,, that Christs "lost year" were actually spent traveling thorugh the east as far as southern tibet and the resurection is actually him executing the Rainbow body.... Anyway - might be an interesting twist is to play with what a "hybrid" religion or sect would look like considering these things....

I think any thread with a title like this one is drivel (whether for or against the person) and posting off topic - way off topic - is probably doing us all a favor... I found your off topic posts to be more valuable than anything which could be said on the topic... KL threads have proven to be a "no holds barred" topic area anyway.

I quite often do... in fact my first few months was with the single intention of future readers... but well as things went I ended up removing them - but might archive some of the ones whcih weren't context specifc - thought it would be appropriate for my last few days here. well said

I represent myself and no other. Yourself and 5ET represent the schools you have worked hard to build, the lineage you have had the honor to be a part of, and the student body to which you councel. When you engage in pettiness like this it, it is not about the disrepect to the person you are speaking with, but the disrespect you are showing to the honored role which you hold. It spits on the divine aspect which you are attempting to facilitate.

THe internet also give people an idea of how teachers behave to other, how they handle adversity etc. No need for good karma, or essence of the tao to see when people have respect, or demand it.

I personally am not impressed with these major teachers. Seems really defensive, taking things really personally.... sheesh. I doesn't, to me, seem lke indication of self mastery at all... just arrogance; there doesn't appear to be any intention toward shareing or education - just "being right". But hell, who am I or anyone else to say, seen as we are not "major" in anyother way then as a pain in the a$$ of the "teachers". 5ET YM, I use to respect both of you. Now all I can do is shake my head. That passive aggressive enough?

Well it's your right to see thing as you do. I want to ask you a question and please know it is with the upmost, heartfelt sincerity that I ask it. Are you okay?

I hate to say this... I read Way's question to be sincere, worded respectfully and focussed on the concept not as a question of anyone credibility or authority. I find this response to be the exact type of behaviour meant by the connotation of a "typical TTB'er". If someone questions, or even disagrees - it is not an attack on credibility or authority. It is better to focus on the words written and address it at face value than to try to dig in and infer personal motives. Whenever there is a response which switches focus from the written content to personal motives the conversation decays into personal arguments. We are equals here, furthering each other’s beliefs, understanding, even thought processes through two way conversation, including debate not in spite of it.

I think the confusion might be the association of the terms "Spirit Guides", "Ascended Masters" with new age movements.

Just a thought. Maybe have a special string filter like '...' or 'emt' if you want to delete a post- then in the sql statement for displaying thread add "where post_content != "special text string here". Then if a poster wants their post to not display they can change the post to the special string. This would at least filter out the display of posts like torus's or like Winpro use to do. Just a thought.

I thought is was something similar to what Winpro7(hint) use to do. Post and delete a minute or two later - if you managed to catch it, then it was cosmically meant for you to read - if you missed it then it wasn't. It would be nice to be able to actually delete a post and have it removed completely from the thread instead of posts with " V " or "...".

LOL - all the industrial design of a Mac turns chi into lust. Better to go Linux in an alienware box (or would that be lust for power)

thumb up

I thought maybe he was trolling out to get SEO stats up for the seminar, but did a quick search to see if I could find some of hs writting and found this which he posted http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message1143871/pg1

It's really no different than any other decision we make iguess. No amount of fore thought removes all the risk involved.

So what are they suppose do? What would be the right effort? Somethings that come to mind - leave out mystical solutions like "when your ready the teacher will appear etc." Is right effort simply to show up and find out for themselves? If so, they are still students with out the faculty to decide, how are they to know it is the right stuff they are involved in... It is sticky because... If it is a system of substance then it would take some time before the student was ready to see it. BUT If it is a system of bollox then no length of training or right effort would afford the faculty to know if it was any good... To me, relying on the reviews and results of people already studying it doesn't add up because those people would also note have faculty to know either (and would also then carry a biase).... And in some cases a living lineage to back the teachers credibility is not an indication if that teacher is a wise choice (I say this as one who was involved in a living lineage, with a long history, which it's senior members act quite questionably at times), and also know of people who simply lie about it... I've also seen teacher get really offended when their credentials are looked into by potential students (which I find odd if those credentials are for real - unless of course there is a traditional or cultural offense that I'm not aware of). How is someone with no expereince (or little experience) able to make an adult decision about who and what to study? So regarding the young'n which called 5ET - what advice could we give them?

That aside... question which I think will tie all of these terirary things back to the inital post.... Kali mentions the importance of right effort. It's not only enough to put the effort in but also the form it take (yes?). So if this newer generation takes the time online to say compile a list of schools and reviews, maybe even educate themselves a bit with basic premises to ask informed questions. Then at that point emails or calls these teachers to "interview" them - is this the incorrect type of effort? (It hink Sloppy's stance was about the form versus the effort) And just to quell any thoughts that I'm trying to be antagonistic, I'll add this possible answer... I read years ago a Karma Kagyu quote re: teachers and students which mentioned something along the lines that a student, knowing nothing, doesn't have the knowledge, karma or expereince enough to know if a teacher is credible or good etc, so such efforts are pointless. Is the form the effort of the internet generation is taking simple not the right one? If so I'd love to hear why.

Dude, you didn't hit a nerve... work ethic not only comes from th parents. Parents hard work can be undone by influences like, school systems, friends, parents of friends.... and it can also be re-enforced by thee things.... parents (and schools and etc etc) do not have any control over the impact and comclusions children will draw from their own life experience.... Laziness is not bad work ethic - it ia a part of it. There are other important things which go into a good work ethic, pride in the job done well and done properly like kali mentioned it takes skill, right effort... an lots of other things. So I see that it is the distinction of work ethic versus laziness which is important to you. I didn't read Vortex's post as pointing a finger at the parents but at a change in values which yes parents are a part of, but i found his reference wider than that which would encase these other influence as well.... So I can see that you believe the lazy cannot be taught. (I'm fine with that too and do see that reasoning) (side note big guys - no nerves where hit except for the one that giggles when I come across flawed logic. I respond to the words written - not man writting them. Doing that levels the field and allows the lowly to call the high on their crap etc... so when reading my post try it with a cold monotone and perhaps a cheek full of tongue - I don't get upset at these things easliy and get offended even less - especially here)

Because the following is a sweeping statement, not about a cultural or social observation, but specifically about something I shared about my life, of which I have all the facts and relevant information and you have none.... and no, I'm not responding on a personal level by stating this... Simply put, you have taken an authoritative stance on something which you have no authority, namely my life and how my parents raised me. Not to be rude - but just stating that your point is obvious (no shouting please - lets stay civil) is, well, lazy thinking. There have been many studies into the nature versus nurture thing, no I'm not going to cite them, but I will say, and take this opportunity to expand on the idea that you stance is typical for people without kids. I will try to explain why.... Say my daughter... she has a perpensity to talk over people and interupt. No matter how much I have coached her, reminded her, reprimanded her, even changing the way my wife and I communitcate to set a better example she has this one very rude habit. This has been going on for almost 2 years. Now matter what I am doing to educate and guide her it is a lesson she is not picking up on.... On the other hand, one day she asked for something from her grandmother in an abrupt manner and didn't say please. When they were done their interaction I explained to her there was a proper way to ask for something and we practices the proper tone and practice saying please. Even now I very very seldom ever have to correct that behaviour. Yes got it pretty much the first time around. I didn't believe myself until I was in the position. They get it, when they get and all you can do is be sure to be providing an example persistantly for them so when those synapsis come together, when they are ready, the lesson will be at hand. In in some case they ust might never get it. They may not be wired to make those connections. There are so many factors that go into the growth of a human, at any age, that it is simply naive and lazy to raise a hand (or write a few words in caps) saying it is the parents' fault, and stating that is obvious knowledge. In light of that, what I will not do at this point is turn to you and say "go have a kid and come back to me in ten years" like others have done on this thread. More, IMO, above the neck laziness. Also - after looking at a day in the life of adolecent -o-, would you really say there is an "averse or disinclined to work, activity, or exertion"? So is there now a distinction between work ethic and lazyness that needs to be drawn? (if there is I'm okay with that) And to put a context to why I was working with my dad and at the bakery.... well that was to help with the mortgage and allowed me to save for a car (as we were quite isolated and walking to next town for school, because I went to a different school district to get University entrance courses, in -25C winters in Canada is not reccomended) Lazy, is lazy, and can be applied to thinking as well. There is a study going on right now regarding serotonin receptors and "lazy children" accept they don't use the word lazy they use the word "output failure". Regardless of the child's knowledge, and capability their "output" whether that be checking their spelling or double checking their math solution, the "output failed" consistently at key points in the process. No matter how often they would run the exercise the output failure was there. They even noticed that as the kids were tested more and more, they did spend extra time on the process steps where they were "failing" but with no change in the output. It was as if the brain simple stopped being invested in the task regardless of the person conscious intention to be engaged in it.... This was not limited to intelectual tasks. Repetition and constant correction had very little affect on the outcome (like 2% over the few months of the study)....now I'm not saying every lazy kid is like this, nor am I saying that it is never the environment they grew up in which leads to their behaviour.... (if I can get my hands on the study from my buddy I will try to post more) So it came to me as an interesting thought that perhaps there could be more going on with the "lazy" then what appears. And to add to that I guess the only think holding us back from discovering it is, well, laziness in our thinking. (I actually expected a response more along the lines like "how can you help someone who won't help themself" - I am surprised at your response. IMO it re-enforces the point that this might be a real prejudice in the world).