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haha if that's enlightenment who would want it

Healing Tao then becomes a method for taming the wild stallion that everyone wants to ride, but one lapse of concentration and he throws you off. Relaxing meditation is more like going around on a merry go round, it can be fun for a while but soon becomes dull. Both have their place, and i agree relaxation is best for burnout in the short term.

But the enlightenment you speak of doesn't continually increase in energy too does it? Only stillness?

I wonder about this. With this definition enlightenment seems very hot. My thoughts are that enlightenment is burning hot, consumes lots of resources or yin and is not sustainable, i find the more enlightened i get, the more enjoyable life experiences, but the more draining. I find it leads to anxiety the higher i go. Disassociation is the opposite is builds yin, and is physically healing, however too much leads to becoming slightly depressed and bored with life. Can anyone empathise with me? I don't have clinical psych diagnosis's, but that's how it feels to me from my reading of symptoms. But also i think there is some overlap, at some of my most enlightened moments i have also felt a bit disassociated, and at my most disassociated times the inner fire has turned on and ive infact felt very associated with my body.

I just mean like balanced exercise (Check out Resistance Stretching by Bob Cooley) That stuff is pretty cool. Healing Tao healing sounds and just watching the breath is good too. And iron shirt. I think if one does enough of these the mental stuff works it's self out on it's own.

The type of healing most are talking about so far is energy and shamanic healing. I think all types of healing are cool. Having done a lot of healing tao qigong/neigong I understand that the mind is mirrored in the body, and in HT we treat our body to heal the mind / soul and everything else. Therefore i chose to learn a physical healing modality that fits well with what i have practiced. I use energy too, but the energy is used more as information, which then allows me to apply a physical remedy to create balance in tissue tensions within the body, and therefore also creating balance of the energy of the body - love. This physical way appeals to me most. To me physical healing is like cleaning my house so that it feels comfortable, and it's easy to feel happiness (love) in a clean house. If my house is a mess, and I try to maintain a feeling of love, for me it feels like hard work - constant never ending. If i clean my house (qigong to clean my body) I feel happy until it gets dirty again, then i work to clean it again - also never ending however there are periods of rest in between where the physical holds the energetic in place. Bowen is my modality, like a very light massage, a bit like accupressure, since most of the moves are over accupressure points, however a directional Bowen move is made across the fibers of a muscle. One direction stimulates the point, the other direction calms the point. Like I learnt in healing tao, there are certain 'weak points' of the body that often cause problems in other parts of the body. Two obvious ones are the jaw and the neck. All the nerves which control the tension of all the muscles in the body travel through the neck, so a problem in the neck can effect anywhere else in the body. For example plantar fasciitis won't always go away fully by treating the foot, treating the neck or jaw is often also necessary. When we have an ailment, it is usually not in isolation, there is often other lesser problems that we discount as being part of the problem. They all need to be addressed. When healing I can scan the body using energy, but also lightly with my fingers testing tissue tension in certain areas which are indicative of overall bodily tensions. After assessing these certain areas i am lead to where the tension imbalances are. I can then apply the Bowen moves (a 2 second roll over a muscle) to release the tension. I leave the room for 2 minutes, allow the body to adjust, re-enter the room, reassess the tension and if necessary make additional moves or adjustments. To me it's simple, yet highly effective (around 85%). And what's more, because the moves are minimal they only START the healing process. Often people walk out feeling i've done very little, however they feel achey the next day, and 3 days after the treatment they forget about the ailment and feel fixed. Because Bowen only starts the healing process, the body has to do the rest it's self, the healing holds better. Illnesses lasting years can't be fixed overnight but, 1 year injuries usually are fixed within 3 sessions over 3 weeks, and remain fixed long term, unless physically aggrivated no need to hold ones spirit in a feeling of love, this is done for you by a balanced body. Bowen isn't FIXING the ailment, it's creating the balance to facilitate the body to heal it's self. Healing myself with energy is sometimes difficult, especially if it is a new problem, because i haven't done it before. However using Bowen i can find the problem, make the moves, feel the changes in my energy, and use my mind to increase the effect. Now my brain knows what to do and often i can get the effects of the Bowen using just my mind. The simplicity of the physical always still comes in handy though. PROBLEMS WITH HEALING I think one big problem that has effected my healing in past is using only energetic methods or using only physical methods. Using both methods i can reassure myself that i have correctly found the problem and have effectively treated the problem. Another problem is that of trying to get too complicated in healing the problem. Too analytical, too much TCM theories. Yes they work, but a simple touch, or light stretching of tissues in specific areas gives real time physical - in the now - information to my brain through my fingers. The information is 2-way, for i can make small moves to effect the tissue tension. The Bowen moves are very simple and can be taught in 2 days to experienced bodyworkers, but I learnt it over a period of a year and feel this gave me alot more skill in using the technique. There are Bowen moves you can learn from youtube and heal yourself and your friends of long term illnesses. The moves are simple, just finding the correct muscles to make the moves over takes some skill. I would recommend anyone to do a search and giving yourself an opportunity to experience some energy shifts created through simple proven physical manipulations. Mind is often a problem with illness, and the answer is often outside the mind, but can be introduced to the mind through the physical. That is true for many healing modalities, even spiritual. Hope my view helps the thread.

I think that sickness is an illusion is a useful mindset to visualize the love concept. But it is a visualization. People say they are sick, because they feel sick. Isn't that what sickness is? I remember when i used to lift lots of weights and my shoulders used to click. I would visualize them moving through the motion without clicks, while doing the weights. Even though the clicking would continue for several reps, i would hold the visualization strong. Usually within 4 reps the clicking would stop, and so long as i held the visualization strong there would be no more clicking. Continued on over more training sessions the non-clicking would become more solid and physically manifest as no more clicking, without needing to visualize any more. I know it works. Same as I'm sure many people just forget about an injury and then it goes. If they are always reminded of it, the problem lingers. One major thing in healing is the concept of the viscous circle. The worse it gets, the harder it gets to get rid of the illness - rather common sense. However when you understand how the viscous circle is developing one can stand in and try to slow the circle/loop, and calm the elements contributing to the disease and stop it developing further, and later unwind the disease backwards.

I have heard of Dirk, he co-wrote a book with Mantak Chia too. I think a lot of it has to do with habits. It's usually a habit that causes the health issue. Any injury then becomes a bit like RSI in a way. One can either remove the habit, or create a new habit which counteracts the old habit and helps balance the body. The new habit may allow for permanent healing so long as the new habit is continued, however the old habit is still often a problem later on and we may need to reduce this habit. I think this is part of getting old. Our bodies can't keep up with the old habits and we need to change them or create new

Concentrate on a physical healing by a physical based therapist, or use exercise or iron shirt. Heal your body then you dont need to be as careful with your mind. This method suits me more.

But its not always about winning... We are not all the same, we are all different, there is no one best fit training method. There is nothing wrong with showing off to ones self, and nothing saying one cant be a turtle and a rabbit.

I think it depends on the type og ah-ha moment you are seeking... Practicing the same thing will just get you stronger and more continuous effects along the same lines. I've had plenty of different wow moments, but the biggest new wow was usually when i started practicing something different, a new method or formula, though not necessarily a new teaching style. I'm mainly self taught.

1) Doing is just the opposite I know what you mean it's hard to know because the not-doing practices you describe are somewhat difficult for me too. It's not that I can't do them, it's that i find them somewhat boring and uneventful. Like I have experienced good things from them too, but i enjoy the work of working my way to the goal myself rather than having it just handed to me, which is what happens if i practice non-doing. Check out Mantak Chia's healing tao, that's good and has lots of doing. Do inner smile, MCO and healing sounds. I'm guessing from what you've been saying and your results of the program that you will probably get the most out of fusion but you gotta learn the basics first. I don't know so much about Michael Wims version but i like Mantak Chias. Perhaps a little too much doing for me, but i'm guessing extra doing will be good for you to help with the balancing between the two. It doesn't require visualization and imagination, but they can be used as a tool, just like watching the nose and the breath is a tool, it's not the goal. 2) Just like you're watching within and gaining wisdom you can do the same externally. For example weather patterns from current conditions, peoples reactions, according to energy or movement in the environment. It becomes a kind of feng shui. Just watch and see and find patterns. That is the 'doing' i guess. As soon as i build up some energy i feel compelled to do again, it's very hard to not do. Computers and internet are one of the worst distractions for me. 3) Try different things. Can you make it worse? If you can make it worse you can make it better. Try and play around, this is the 'doing'. For me i'm so engrossed in doing, for me i have to 'do' 'not doing', it takes patience to not-do. Get some passion and start doing and try different things to see what works. What to 'do'? Start with the Healing Tao formulas, then make your own stuff up from there. Your perspectives are very interesting to me and give me more insight into the not-doing. Would be good to have a chat one day on skype or something. See to me this sounds like stress too, especially since emotional states can set it off. One way I really enjoy checking is to have a few beers and see if it goes away, If it goes away it's tension From my experiences with doing and not-doing, not-doing can make you happy living uncomfortably. Eg. Your could have tension in your neck but it shouldn't bother you. Getting worse or getting better, it shouldn't matter, it should all just be how it is. It's realizing that nothing can be perfect all the time, and even when something becomes perfect, a short time later that's not perfect any more. So being happy with everything how it is raises your spirit above matter (this is an illusion however). However the weakness is, as you seem to have noticed that the spirit is interconnected and relies on matter, the physical - yin. Its very hard to just 'watch' as a spectator as one twists their ankle, and why shouldn't they do something to prevent it, or make it heal faster. In doing I can spend countless hours, perhaps most of the day at times controlling body processes, energy qualitys and quantities at different locations. I know chinese medicine, and i know Iron shirt qigong, so i can heal my body, adjust how i feel inside to how i want to feel, and create the perfect experience. However the weakness is it takes time, minutes, hours or days, depending on what i'm conjuring and when I reach the destination of perfection, that destination is no longer desireable in a few days time, and so begins work chasing the next destination. So a balance of both is good. Have the skill to make yourself feel good, and get rid of tension in your neck, but also have the center (earth), balance, and contentedness to not be after perfection. 4) From what i gather from what you've said so far i would say you were an earth element, with conflicting wood. Wood and earth conflict but that is for the purpose of balancing each other. I am a wood element and my wife is earth. Exercise would be the easiest and best way for you to help bring yourself to balance i think. And not yoga or walking, do some weights and some cardio. Creamy stuff is probably not good to eat, a little chilli is probably good. Build passion and desire. You may find you are a bit wishy-washy or look to others to make decisions for you? Probably have great relationships with others, and use their skillsets rather than your own. However this doesn't mean you aren't a good worker, you are one of the best once you understand what you're doing and have confidence, and also have the drive and desire to do the work - But often this only comes when you aren't content. My wife is content most of the time, i am not. Don't eat raw food, cook everything. Don't be a vegetarian you need warmth. Warming foods. Don't drink fruit or vege juice, cooked veges are good though. Where you stand on the center of a spinning roundabout or merry-go-round in a park just enjoying watching the ride, i'm hanging onto the edge with my feet hooked around the edge and my head extending out over the edge screaming out go faster! We both need to switch roles every now and then. My wife keeps me centered but her lack of passion in life, or the flare to go wild sometimes fustrates and bores me, while my inability to sit still and relax and just be happy with what we've got is probably annoying for her. She worries, i get fustrated. She makes friends, i make decisions. Together we work well. Anapana builds earth, you don't need more of this, you do this naturally. Qigong (at least the way i practice it) builds energy and change, i feel it would help you more, even thou you would enjoy practicing it less (same with me but opposites). When people come into my clinic they don't like the exercises i give them because they are hard to do, but thats exactly why they need to do them, because they are weak in those areas, and thats what we're trying to strengthen.

Hey yeah i got your message thanks, just didn't see you reply on this topic for a while before so i messaged you. Thanks. I haven't been on here for a while too so sorry for the slow reply. I get a bit of an uncomfortable sensation at my throat sometimes too. Especially if i increase my qigong practice quantity quickly. My throat is like the controlling point for me, changing or controlling sensations, or chi energy sensations. If i keep my mind clear, it appears i start using my throat to somehow control it. Tension in my throat, in different parts / directions / ways gives me control while keeping a quiet mind, but that tension leads to uncomfortableness. For me to get rid of it, I just do the anapana watching breath so there is no desire for anything to change, no controlling, no tension in the neck and it goes away. The other thing to speed it up is inner smile to neck and throat, plus stretching my neck. These help too, but unless i stop trying to control for a while it becomes a vicious cycle. I remember when i first did lots of healing tao on my own tent retreat. I was actually working with negative energy for the first few days, but i didn't know it. Later i just changed it to good energy. There are 2 energetic ways i use to change things / sensations i dont' like. (physical ways become the best for me but energetic is easier until i work out a physical method for a particular change). So I can 1. change something step by step using a method i have done before, or borrowing from methods i've used before (engineering) or 2. focus on the results i desire, ignoring the fact that those results aren't currently in effect, but not trying to change it. Later it changes to the desired end result for longer and longer periods of time. So you can do that with your neck too. Hold the feeling of a comfortable neck in your mind and it will become more like that. Or release the tension like you've learnt to do using other meditation skills. The doing of meditation is very powerful, but the not doing is just as powerful (anapana part). It's like the glide in breaststroke or survival back stroke, getting something for free, while at the same time giving you rest for another stroke. I'm a good do-er, not so good not-doer. Doing Anapana helps not-doing by being something you can 'do' to 'not do':) It probably is chi stagnation. Maybe describe the sensation a bit more if you can? Food? Well i don't think there is a food for neck tension but there would be foods that can bring you more into balance. Thats why i like healing tao, because it connects strongly with traditional chinese medicine. Then i can use herbs or foods to do the work of qigong, or vice versa. There is a heap of general TCM concepts and knowledge which can help explain what's happening during meditations etc too. I made a piece of web software that you can try if you want. http://tcm.asthmainchildren.com.au/TCMDiagnosis.php It's nothing to do with asthma, i just needed somewhere to host it. If you do the survey it will help you with foods to eat or exercises or meditations needed to bring you back into balance. It is a work in progress and doesn't have every exercises or meditation for every type of person yet but if you get your results from the program i can help you with specific qigong you can use to balance yourself so everything gets better.

Shad282, I am interested to know from somebody who has completed the vipassana course, was there any recommendation made about using vipassana vs anapana? How or when to use one over the other, or should they be done together in the same meditation session, or one morning and one night, or one depending on how you are feeling? What was taught in the course about the difference in these two different types of meditation? Anapana is a form of samatha meditation right? The good thing about vipassana is that it is a reputable meditation style, just as with healing tao. They have both been around for a long time, vipassana i feel would be even more reputable and solid than healing tao, and there is alot of help around for either system, with lots of people having trialed and errored different aspects of each system. I've read some good essays regarding anapana and samatha and it has verified what i was feeling was right. Thats the best thing about learning different systems, I can learn answers to questions not available in my original system, because i might understand the basics of another system and that system answers my question.

Yes well i think healing tao for me sort of converted into a type of vipassana on it's own. Like i didn't go through purposefully and feel every inch but during my daily life i'm always aware of my whole body and now i've been practicing for a long time i know what most of these sensations are (or energy as i would call it in HT)... although every now and then a new one will come along, usually when i'm traveling or experiencing different things. Energy can be physical or nerve feelings so i guess it's under the same umbrella as sensations as you describe. I think HT inner smile is the foundation of this, but if focuses on organs, glands, spine, etc. I have extended it to the rest of my body, and especially joints are of interest. I also did 30second meditation which i guess is a bit like vipassana while in movement. (http://www.meditationguru.in/30SecMeditation.pdf) At one time i was doing it all day long. I also started watching outside the body and realizing patterns in my environment which i felt increased my wisdom, however one needs to be careful of this type of thing or i tend to feel a bit powerful thinking i know everything when obviously i'm still a human. Another problem is the constant analyzing causes imbalances and spleen weakness. But changing from 'watching' to 'feeling' mode changes this as it's more rooted in my body, more 'earthly' from a TCM perspective and helps the spleen and quietens the mind. I still like the watching my breath thing, anapana though it really calms me down, something that i haven't got from anything else. I've been meditating daily for over 10 years but it amazes me the realizations i get about the most basic of principles, and how i was doing them, and new ways of doing them which improves my practice. How my perception about how the FEELING of love has changed over time. I have pretty much done all the techniques. Now i do macrocosmic orbit, just like microcosmic but including arm/leg channels too, plus belt channels, bridge & regulator, and thrusting too. But they are seperate as teachings but really it kinda all blurs into one simple practice. All the channels balance the body into the anapana type feeling which is what i most need. I also do Iron shirt 1, sometimes 2, and rarely 3. Before i used to be drawn to cosmic fusion and kan & li, the higher level energy meditative practices, i was a power freak, wanting more and more but sorta got over that now, it mucks around with my sleep too much. Doing vipassana type meditation as you explain it before i sleep makes it hard for me to sleep too. Anapana style helps with sleep and life in general for me. However too much and life becomes slow and boring without excitement. It's just a balancing act between the two, and my most recent attempts are to excite in the morning and relax in the afternoon, one of the most basic things i read in the beginning. But hey, i guess it's a bit like people who go to the therapist for help, only do the therapists suggestions that they believe will be best and ignore the others, then complain it doesn't work properly Differences become less and less the more you practice i think. It all just becomes the same, but with a focus on a different aspect. But these aspects become the same thing the closer one gets to balance. I've been in and out of balance more times than i could count. To me now it's more about revolving around the balance point, balance through constant change. Best to learn one practice well, then try another opposing practice that compliments your original practice. Then you can understand from both ends. Then you can learn about further practices and quickly get overall understandings about them. Take bits and pieces from all practices that work for you, to get you to where you want to be, whether that be balance or imbalance. It's all just about playing and having fun, seriousness and trying to take something from the practice defeats the purpose and rarely works, and usually just makes one look silly.

I've done the watching part and qigong and i find they effect one another. I tried to do a Vipassana course but was smoking pot at the time and gym training lots, and sitting there without training and no weed, i only last 3 days and i felt like i was going to burst. About 6 months later i used the same timetable they used on the retreat and camped out in my own tent and did the 10 days, but pretty much just the watching your nose stuff like you learn on the course the first 3 days. At this stage i hadn't done any qigong and i felt very calm and at peace... which at that time i hardly ever felt. The level of relaxation and stableness of that relaxation surpassed anything i had experienced before. I realized what it meant to feel relaxed. My body healed really fast. Later i did another 10 day retreat with 80-90% Healing Tao qigong and the rest the watching the nose. This worked well and had amazing results, mind blowing for me at that time actually, but less actual healing in my body. I continued doing HT only for a long time, then in the last year or 2 i have been watching myself while doing daily activities, plus doing more of the nose watching than healing tao. Maybe only 10% healing tao and the rest watching the breath and watching myself in daily activities. Now when i do the watching breath, after i become relaxed all the channels open and energy runs fast like practicing healing tao. I don't want the energy really, but it just happens. If i do the HT energy work, mainly running all the different channels, then after stopping doing the energy work my mind becomes calm like doing the watching breath. My mind is really active so i feel watching the breath is a more solid and stable way to connect to that balance feeling, however if i had never have done HT i would have gotten so bored with doing watching the breath all the time that i would have quit. Good to have some variety i think.

Just wanted to encourage people to follow their dreams... I spent years learning natural remedies, health and meditating, but none of those around me took any of my advice because they saw me as a driver, which was my job. I wanted to help others but i couldn't. 2 years ago i did a Bowen therapy course, finished, and struggled to get clients to treat, even for free. Fast forward another year after finishing the course and alot more work plus spending time learning about sales, I work as a therapist in my own small clinic plus do 2 days at a large company. At times i have a 4 week waiting list. People are keen to hear my advice on remedies and see me as an effective therapist....and i get paid! What's even better is i have learnt much more about natural therapies and health through treating others, and apply the knowledge to myself. Everyone should follow their dreams, and through hard work enjoy the work they do, doesn't matter whatever that may be. It reduces the need for meditation because balance is already in ones life. My business is still not where i want it to be but in another couple of years i can see it being somewhere close. Seize the day!

Oh yes and what i believe the secret was to getting clients was to give as much as I could, and when I got some back, give it back out again. It's a bit like in qigong where you give your energy to others then you get more.... Thankyou cards, follow up phone calls, giving my best in a free treatment, just like I would to a paying customer... Becomes unbareable not to give more or I begin to feel uncomfortable.

Advantages and disadvantages.... For me, advantages of LDT is playing with power or energy that can cause physical changes in the body and control of those physical changes through this power. Sudden physical changes, fast and strong. Disadvantage.... lack of insight. Perhaps having the power of a rocketship to boost into the sky, yet lacking the insight of knowing there were pockets of hot air rising that i could sit in and boost into the sky without ever needing to use much power at all. (Upper dantien) Lack of feeling or satisfaction beyond having achieved a goal. Power to get things done, but feeling only satisfaction within of having accomplished that goal. Not having the emotional connection with others that can increase the intensity and quality and sensation of achievement that comes with connections with others and relationships. (Middle dantien) To give examples, a warrior can win the battle (LDT power), but perhaps loses friends or family because of a lack of honour during the battle, perhaps 'cheating' or not having mercy (Middle dantien), and not having the insight to realise there may not have needed to be a battle in the first place (upper dantien. Everybody has their own personality and way of doing things, through meditation we can either boost our strengths and become even more powerful (as we percieve) and more unbalanced, or slowly build on our weaknesses to become more balanced and rounded people, without the special powers, but in balance not needing them because we already have everything we need - what we thought we needed wasn't what we needed/wanted. But it's not all about advantages and disadvantages, it's about having fun. That is what it all boils down to for me. Furfill my desires, live my dreams, tick off my life bucket lists so to speak. Balance is whats best, but balance becomes boring. Balance through constant change is the best for me. Living with the seasons seems to help, using the outer to lead the inner. If there is one thing that i wished i had have realised earlier in over a decade of practice is use what you learn within without, and vice versa. Meditation / NeiGong is very inner, outer growth is just as important as inner growth. Dantiens and techniques and styles, this way and that way. All the answers are there, but I don't know if I don't ask myself or look. There is a time to watch, a time to lead, and a time to feel, and other times too. Whats right for one person isn't always right for another, advise from another is often engineering advice to follow the same path as another person. This is often wrong for the individual, we all have our own path. Understand nature, understand tao, then use that understanding to walk the path one seeks. This is why the old books often talk in poems. There is no clear cut answer because nobody else knows where you are (especially over the internet) or where you're going. Poems just help describe the environment, the terrain so one can choose for themselves.

Yeah i was really surprised by how many pushups i could do while holding my breath. But if i'm walking around while i'm doing the 30 breaths or so, i can't hold my breath for very long at all compared to if i'm sitting down when doing the 30 breaths. I found the practice fun but i've still been doing HT too at the same time. It's fun because it's different. I really do feel like i'm cheating in the cold shower department though. I put the water on cold right from the start and have only cold showers, but the water isn't even cold, it's been warming up in the catchment areas all summer haha. I want to sus the practice out a bit more. Has anyone tried doing it before they sleep? Or without the cold showers? It seems to me the cold shower part is just a test of being able to hold that inner balance while stressing yourself, a bit like weight lifting but for holding ones center. I'm always dubious about anything that can affect my sleep, if i have two bad sleeps in a row that's the beginning of a downward spiral for me.

I was wondering if anyone here knew if there was any difference in techniques of not needing to drink water while running in the desert was the same as becoming immune to the cold? Does the inner fire help in the heat too, or do you need some kind of inner cold?

TheLerner: I remember you used to do HT. I'm guessing this is a more physical practice with the breathing and such. Plus with the physically testing yourself in the cold and with holding your breath instead of say testing one's posture in iron shirt. Do you find things like MCO & all the other channels just open themselves through the practice? I've tried other practices but i think i've done HT so much that everything just seems like it opens the channels and activates the HT within me haha. I've always liked Wim's outlook and practices and how he goes all about it. It's always attracted me because he's real, upfront and just dying to help others, but not many people want to know - Which goes all throughout life in many different ways, general people don't want what's best for them and being given away for free or cheap, they want expensive and a second rate job done for them. Wim has been teaching and been on TV for years but he got more attention overseas than he did in his own country. I mean really, $200 bucks is not expensive, people will pay $90 for a massage, and if you get the whole course it's worth it. I've bought the iceman before but didn't get alot out of the book really, seemed like he was still feeling his way a bit, had confidence in his technique but not in his ability to spread the benefits, but it's a few years on since he'd written the book and I watched the Ted Talk and he looks more confident and experienced in spreading the word. I think i might try the breathing and whats been posted on the this website http://highexistence.com/the-wim-hof-method-revealed-how-to-consciously-control-your-immune-system/ that somebody posted before and see how I go after a couple of weeks. It's summer here in Australia so cold showers are nice at the moment and the cold water doesn't even get that cold hahah, plenty of time till it cools down to a winter cold shower.

You can use the energy of all the planets. Planet energies in our solar system are mapped to different organs. How does the big dipper make you feel? How does the space between you and the big dipper feel? How about space beyond the big dipper? I think it's all just a matter of opening up one's mind to new possibilities and the feelings of new energies. One can connect to anything real or imaginary and feel, borrow, steal, give or push energy off to it. No one chi is better than any other chi, it can only be better when placed in context... Better for what? I find chi within our bodies is best. It is most refined and feels smoothest and best to me. However that's for working within. External chi most likely is better for working without.

This closing move of collecting the chi in the dantien at the end of the meditation session. I've always done it, however I'm not sure i really get it. For me it doesn't really end the meditation. As soon as i step up, unless i keep my mind on my dantien, the chi just moves to wherever i'm using it. Like the energy doesn't stay put in my dantien where i just spiraled, unless i stay centred. As soon as i start thinking about something the energy comes up to my head, or start sweeping the floor with bent legs and it goes to my legs. It makes me wonder about the validity of needing to spiral in the dantien at the end of a meditation session. Infact if i place attention on the dantien during meditation for a longer period of time, the longer length of time tends to have a momentum type factor, and the chi seems to stay there longer, the longer i collect the chi there. But a simple spiraling 36x each way or doing other closings i've read about with massages, etc, don't really do anything for me. What do you guys feel? Does the energy stay put? What happens to you if you don't end the meditation in the dantien?

Thanks for your replies guys, very helpful.