yabyum24

"To suppress a truth is to give it force beyond endurance." -Master Kan

I'm interested in taking up Tai Chi for health and the ability to direct energy around the body - which I witnessed at first hand many years ago. There are many styles out there. Does anyone here have any experience? I'm not looking for just those slow exercises you see pensioner's doing, nor for a hard Kung Fu system. More something in between. Which style would most match this? Thanks

Thanks for the debate guys. It's all way above my head but interesting to read nevertheless.

Desire and anger are sustenance. Such people mistake the means to enter samhadi. Namaste

Forgive my ignorance, but what is "standing" in the context you describe? It would suggest little or no movement. Is it a kind of meditation? I really have such little knowledge and many have mentioned it on this thread. Please don't despair I would like to know, as I will be unable to find a teacher who does this, if I don't even know what it is. Namaste

You can't be addicted to that which you have never experienced, so there's a benefit there straight away.

It seems a contradiction in terms; a free reverie, yet controlled.

Good point Mal. Porn has a very detrimental effect, which I find sex does not, even if continence is used with respect to both. If I practice YabYum then I come away tremendously energised, if I use porn, then I feel physically sh*t afterwards, even if there no orgasm. It's a question of intent. You can't approach consort work with sexual greed, as it will just descend into normal sex. Porn, on the other hand, is designed to satisfy this greed, it exists for that reason alone. The energy is pulled into bad places in my experience. The taoist teachings on the sharing of energy have put many experiences into context for me. Namaste

This is a good stance to have.

Thanks Steve, some useful information on those links. I'll check it out.

Yes, thanks. This is what I'll do. Keep an open mind and look around.

Very nice Stig. It reminds me of the Shaivite teachings on Spanda - Shiva and Shakti - the volitional energy and stillness. http://www.spiritual-teachers.com/returntoshiva.htm Namaste

I was about 21 years old at the time and had been practicing Karate for a few years. I was in peak fitness, working out etc. Out of interest I went along to a Tai Chi class and did a session of their movements, very soft, easy and zero challenge for me, as a fit young man. The instructor told me not to be too shocked if I felt stiff the next day. I must admit I smirked to myself as I left, as most of the guys doing it looked quite puny and I had honestly not even broken a sweat. The next morning I could hardly get out of bed, I was so stiff. I went once more and asked the instructor about Chi. We had been learning arm locks - the kind police use which can easily snap a man's arm. He told me to put him in one and push as hard as I wished. Bear in mind I was much bigger than this guy and I bench pressed some respectable weights back then. He said he would direct his Chi into his arm. I had no wish to harm him so I didn't press too hard but even with this amount a normal person would have been in pain. He said to try harder, so I thought 'what the hell, the geek wants it' and I brought my whole strength to bear on his arm and wrist - nothing. Nothing at all. He was serene and completely still. I swear, there is no reason I could not have broken his arm with the combined force and the hold. It freaked me out and I never went back. I guess I wasn't ready for that lesson. That was over 20 years ago. I have never forgotten it and I regret now that I didn't stay. It was truly awesome and strange. I sensed I was in the presence of something I could not fathom and if I'm honest, it scared me.

Many thanks for the discussion and replies. Though much of the terminology is completely unknown to me, I used to do Karate many years ago so one or two ideas are semi-familiar. I'm just keen to avoid either a "mood-music" class with a group of sweet old ladies, or being holed up with a bunch of muscle-pumping kick-ass Bruce Lee wannabees. Not that I've got anything against either of those, it's just that I wouldn't fit in at all if you know what I mean. I guess, I should go along and observe as many classes as I can, then choose which feels the best. Reading your posts has made me Google around and that's not a bad thing. If I get a general idea of the subject.

Thanks for the replies. I've had a look around my area at the clubs I could easily reach and I've got a sort of shortlist. Perhaps if you could have a look and give an opinion? I don't know anything about this chap but I vaguely recall getting some recommendation at some point: http://www.cottinghamtimes.co.uk/health-&a...dy-Tai-Chi.html I went along to one of these sessions a while ago but it was more a solid Kung Fu style: http://www.hulltaichi.co.uk/ Another, but no idea: http://www.eastyorkshireewta.co.uk/ Apparently some classes in my area: http://sunstyle-taichi.co.uk/ A lady: http://www.lfataichi.com/ Apart from those, I'm located in E.Yorks near Hull, so if by chance you know... I feel the energy work would compliment my meditation, thus the interest. Thanks

He doesn't. Some Buddhists claim that there is a kind of findable continuum, but upon investigation nothing is found. Others claim that there is 'nothing' but how can this be? 'Nothing' cannot be aware. Both are flawed. A very good comparison. You have already highlighted the limitations of a linear interpretation of our being. If there is only NOW, then the arising of subjective awareness and its object must be a simultaneous dualistic event. Consider this; when we dream, we say "I had a dream in which I went someplace, met some people, got scared, did all kinds of things etc". In truth, the entirety of that event was mind-created, especially the subject as well as its objects. We take it for granted that we feature in our dreams, but a subject has to be created in order that the play of being can dance before us. From what does this emerge and by what force? Recent recall within meditation, as well as past life recall. I think you are describing that state. It does. I sometimes get that just before I wake up. Namaste

How about if they were co-emergent? No need for anything to facilitate anything then. Just a thought... As I understand what I have been taught, it's more a question of process, rather than a 'thing' to be reincarnated. Perhaps if you compare it with going to sleep, passing through the dream state and deep unconscious sleep and then nevertheless waking up as yourself again - there is a process which may (or not in my case) be observed. A good question though and I'm looking forward to reading what others think.

I like this analogy. When you say that a 'self-knowing aspect of being exists before the senses', do you mean within the moment of now, or prior to our birth? Is the river bed a kind of continuum? Good point. One thing I've encountered when looking at this topic is the confusion that sometimes surrounds the terminology (no implication that anyone here does this btw). Some people make no distinction between Rebirth and Reincarnation. The latter suggests the return of an ego, a sense of 'I' still able to associate in some way with 'its' previous life. This concept can be encountered within Tibetan Buddhism in the context of very advanced meditators who are able to navigate the Bardo and maintain awareness throughout even the most subtle stages of mental dissolution. Rebirth, on the other hand, does not have this implication. There is no 'thing' to be reborn, no one identity which can claim ownership of the impersonal process. In this way "You" can never be reborn and for a "person" no such thing as rebirth exists. I just thought I'd throw the above points into the pot (not in a definitive way mind), as it's stuff I've pondered. I like the way threads like this can cover a topic without adherence to dogma. Namaste

What is there to be found which is "self evident beyond sensory input"? Namaste

Especially if they throw in the popcorn!

2 parts of exactly the same thing. When you dissolve, how do you know you have? What "object" have you dissolved? My question is not an intellectual one, rather experiential. Awareness of the process, pure awareness is vipassana. Without it, you'd be in deep sleep. The dissolution, the calming is samatha. Awareness of it is vipassana. It's not an intellectual vocalized exercise, although some traditions present it as such which I find rather contradictory, as a tense, hard, vocalized mental focus will not permit entry into even the first Jhana. Just my 2 cents.

A very good point. It has been my experience that orgasm depletes the power of the 'dream body' (or whatever term you wish to use to describe it). It tears off energy and weakens the structure. Internal retention is even worse - as the energy is still torn off but remains lose within the body of the person, which can lead to all sorts of health problems. Oddly enough, semen is not necessarily linked to this energy. If it is released without orgasm, then the energy does not go with it. I have also never felt that nocturnal emissions have ever depleted my energy levels, as they always occur for me within the context of erotic dreams and the dream body is somehow disengaged from direct attachment to the physical body. It prompts ejaculation from the sleeping body without being damaged itself. But this is just my own experience and not something I've been taught, or have on authority. Better, like you say, to learn ways of orgasm-less sex. If the taoist teachings are right, then this leads to an increase of energy and a more non-obsessive approach to sex.

I'd like to say I agree with this statement, as it's something I've observed myself. The debate around this topic (within society as a whole) seems unable to escape the paradigm of orgasm - however it is viewed, it is either a 'given' of one kind or another or, for some, an evil to be suppressed. Two sides of the same coin IMHO. That's why I find the taoist and Karezza perspective very refreshing, as it demonstrates a fundamentally different 'transformative' approach to the issue. Sutric Buddhism shows us how to investigate the origin of desire and observe how it arises - in an almost Pavlovian manner - when confronted with stimuli. We, therefore, gain an opportunity to "release" such habitual impulses as they arise. Buddhist Tantra, whilst aiming to utilize and transform desire into the path, has scant information on the subject of consort practice within the public domain and in some cases it is hard to distinguish secrecy from discouragement. It may seem harsh, but in my opinion, the much-touted literary ideal of a young initiated consort (paired by the master to a disciple) is little more than a culturally untranslatable relic. As modern, urban people we have very different circumstances and must find a means of incorporating 'them', rather than romanticizing about that which we will never have. That said, I feel spiritual transformation of our sexual energy is possible, if we can escape the conditioning to which we have been subjected since our early years and all of the above methods have plenty to contribute - hence my enquiry into taoist practices. Thanks for all the replies so far. I'm glad it's not a taboo subject. Is the Bedchamber book the definitive guide, or are there other sources? Namaste

Thanks Mal, I would be interested in how "spiritual benefit" is derived within the techniques of taoist sexual teachings. I guess you allude to it here: Are there specific teachings for how to accomplish this? Absolutely. Namaste