lifeforce

Tao Te Ching Chuang Tzu Lieh Tzu

Maybe you should ask this question on a Taoist forum. This forum has turned into e sangha :lol:

Finally, some sense is spoken. These endless debates about religious preferences are using up waaaay too much space on TB.

http://www.chilel.com/new040200/gong04012000.htm

Hi ralis. The reviews of these look good. Have you read them ? If so, what do you think.

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But the Tao is not just limited to Chinese hermits in the mountains. We do not have to leave our own countries, or indeed speak other languages to 'learn' Tao. It is present everywhere, from the crowded cities to the secluded mountains. You just need to know how to 'tune in'.

Bump. I thought I was through with Buddhist teachings. Then I discovered this. Awesome. I have much reading and studying to do.

I still haven't seen proof that there is no self. Show it to me. All I've read is opinions and the translated words of ancients. Drop all concepts and systems. Don't rely on the words and opinions of others. Still yourself and look within. It is here where you will find Truth.

Zhan Zhuang outdoors during work breaks. I've found a nice spot close to a wooded area where no-one can see me so I'm not disturbed. If the weather's not so good (which can often happen here in the UK ), then I'll find a quiet corner and do some ZZ or some meditating on a chair. Walking. I've got a nice route which takes me nearly all my lunch break to complete. Through woods and a quiet country village. Been doing this for years now. It's a great connection with nature during a hectic work day. Good topic.

Getting back to the topic, this book is very good. Not all historical fact, but a novel based on actual events. Read it a few years back and was very impressed. Think I might have to read it again. 970 pages though !

Me too. When I'm hungry I eat. When I'm tired I sleep.

Wow. Awesome pics my friend.

Some of my essential books: The Tao Te Ching-DC Lau 365 Tao-Deng Ming Dao Bankei Zen-Peter Haskel The Unborn,The Life & Teachings of Zen Master Bankei-Norman Waddell Hsin Hsin Ming-Sengcan

Good topic. Something from a zen forum which echoes my feelings on the matter: ''Ugh, all this elitist crap about who is or isn't official or in the club has nothing to do with Buddhism, Zen, or awakening. And whether a person is studying or has studied with a teacher has nothing to do with the extent to which they have woken up to the truth. I know from experience that a lot of people who "do Zen" the traditional way are clueless, mired in religious memes, and not awake, while many others have had genuine awakenings without practicing Zen the "official" way. The person who has helped me most on the path has not been any officially transmitted teacher I have worked with, but someone whose Zen practice and life experience is anything but the traditional model. However, he has communicated the heart of the teachings in a no-nonsense way that helped me break through some of my most persistent and pernicious delusions, and is a true spiritual friend. I have no doubt of his authenticity, while many a person in a brown robe has invited my suspicion. It is my hope that the newbies here who put a lot of stock in the chest puffing and posturing about "the true Zen way" will persevere until they too have experienced enough to realize how little stock needs to be put in any of this nonsense. Many fools and pseudo-Buddhists, who care for status, approval, and belonging far more than they will ever care about waking up, wear rakusus, sit sesshin, and claim superiority of those who do not do these things. Practice with any sangha and this will be apparent. The games of status are inescapable. It seems to me that the majority of people in even the Zen communities with the least bullshit are there to nurse a sense of wounded superiority and prove to themselves they are the special, wise persons they suspect themselves to be. These people will never be willing to die or suffer humiliation for the truth because the core of their practice is defending the self. The corollary to this is that many true people have never set foot inside a zendo. This is not to say that many true people do not also practice with teachers in traditional ways, for many people do exemplify the traditional ideal of Zen practice and working with a teacher. It is just to say that there is no reason to revere people who take on traditional forms above those who do not. It may be technically correct to make a distinction about what fits the traditional practice model in Zen, but the focus lately here on reverence for the brown robe seems to me to go against the spirit of Zen tradition. People, all that matters is if you wake up. A good teacher can be of great benefit but where and how one finds one's instruction is a lot less important than the willingness to do what it takes to wake up, even if no one else approves of it or recognizes it as official. My experience has been that one must eventually come upon a fork in the practice road where one realizes how solitary a journey this truly is, and that persisting will mean weathering scorn, not praise. The true person is without rank, and any rank or status bestowed on you by another person is not only meaningless, but can be a great distraction from the central matter of all Buddhist practice.''

Lovely, well thought out post. Thank you for that.

This forum. :D

Brilliant. Hey, JohnZen I'm twice your age,married with kids and still have mega lustful feelings towards women, but I never act on them. If I were single and twenty (as I once was !) I would be enjoying it to the full. Plenty of time for rationing later.

Maybe I shouldn't have expressed my feelings in the way that I did. Sorry if I offended you guys (and gals). I have a lot of respect for you all. I humbly apologize, even if I have opened a can of worms. It's the belief/religion/rules/ritual/future lives teachings that have put me off. Direct experience, however, and the pointing to it, I have a lot of time for. For instance, some of the Chan/Zen pioneers(Seng-tsan,Bankei etc) I believe are closer to the Tao than most (so called) Taoists.

A good trick I've used is to silently say "What is my next thought going to be?'. Try it. It creates a gap in thought and can be used again when the next thought eventually pops up.

Good replies, I knew I'd stirred something up but it wasn't my intention to anger anybody, it's just my perspective after all. I haven't just come to this realization through reading, but through years of practice, study and meditation. I've attended Theravada, Tibetan and Zen monasteries. Been instructed in vipassana and anapanasati meditation by high ranking Ajaan's of the Thai Forest tradition. Practiced Pure Land recitation in both it's Chinese and Japanese forms. It doesn't matter what form of Buddhism, there's far too much emphasis on the future life and what will happen if certain criteria are not met. Thereby a fear is installed in the practitioner ( who apparently doesn't even exist at all !) . I'm not having a pop solely at Buddhism by the way, ALL religion is based on fear. I'm totally committed to cultivating the Tao or Way through neigong, IMA and stillness meditation but without the 'ism'. Maybe I thought Buddhism would compliment my practices, instead it left me feeling resentful of wasting precious time by practicing it in the first place.

Very good helpful advice from a quick glance. Thanks for sharing.

I used to like Buddhism until VERY recently. As I looked deeper into it, I realized it is just like any other organized religion, based on fear. Fear of what will happen to us IN THE NEXT LIFE if we don't do such and such or repeat this mantra in a foreign tongue. Hell realms, hungry ghost realms etc etc. Eons trapped in horrible existences. What if these realms don't exist. What a waste it would be to deny ourselves living fully IN THIS LIFE. This is not to mean living recklessly without concern for the planet and it's inhabitants. We can still lead morally good and compassionate lives without adhering to precepts, commandments and blind guru worship. Most of us know what is the correct way to conduct ourselves and of the consequences when we don't. We reap what we sow.