johndoe2012

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No Zen stuff anymore?

But isn't the Buddhist point of view that one could be fooled by one's own mind to think you "are there"? Therefore you need some kind of descriptions of the different stages - described by the mind so they will get polluted, but maybe it is better than nothing.

The more important question is: how do one "obtain" the Tao? One can easily fool oneself in reading various taoist texts and think "now I've got it". The verification of one who has the Tao and the roadmap to the Tao seem the most difficult.

The simplest is not always the correct one. Ask yourself if this is not too simple? Both Buddhists and Taoist do the same: confront society everyday. Those that flee to the mountains realize society cannot be changed and is best left alone. They are entitled to their opinion. No, it is not respected in that Buddhism cannot "save" people but FG can. There are many monks today that are righteous. Maybe I seem forceful but this is only to make you question your beliefs. Well it seems to go fine in that there are enlightened masters in both Buddhism and Taoism. There are many masters but in FG there can be only one. This is one of the reasons to suspicious of the practise in FG. I have studied those books and practises and didn't find them as high level as you think. CowTao said it better than I. I am a just a beginner on the path.

You are conditioning your mind with how the world looks according to FG instead of using methods to see the truth behind it all. Instead of freeing your ego, you are getting attached to FG - this will not lead anywhere. Then Epoch Times (owned by FG practioners) and the Nine Commentaries on the Communist Party are pure fantasy? Nobody is saying CCP is good but why bring politics into cultivation? You are polluting your mind instead of freeing it. Li Hongzhi essays on Nostradamus are his interpretation. Look into it and you will see it can interpreted in another way. So this is not a proof.

Thanks. Words to remember.

I agree. It seems the topics regarding politics and economy get polluted with opinions that don't help followers of the Way. I have found a lot of good info on this forum so it would be a pity if newcomers won't read the wise words that once in a while also pop up. Loving-kindness to all

Gauss: why not practise ordinary qigong like Zhan Zhuang or similar? Falun Gong is not qigong in that they do not believe in qi but the body somehow is converted to a higher level. One of the exercises in Falun Gong is actually Zhan Zhuang. from http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/lec_glo.html gong means result/achievement in Chinese right? So this is incorrect? Why not cultivate values according to Buddhism or Taoism? Funny that you talk about Lord Buddha, when Falun Dafa is talking badly about Buddhism: from http://www.falundafa.org/book/eng/lec_glo.html. I wonder what the Buddhists say to that In Buddhism they have exercises to cultivate compassion but none exists in Falun Dafa. How is this so when compassion is one of the three foundations in Falun Dafa? Your words are all taken from the Falun Dafa material and not realized through your effort. In my opinion it is a cult not in money terms but in control in that Li Hongzhi is a the top and you will never surpass his level - since he can give fashen and you cannot: from http://falundafa.org/book/eng/lecture3.html#8 aha, so in ordinary qigong illnesses can be cured by yourself but in Falun Dafa is done by the master. This goes on and on: Without the master you are nothing. How is this not cult-like?

Anybody got experience in both Zhan Zhuang and Flying Phoenix chi kung? Which is most effective? The effects mentioned in this thread seem impressive for such a short total practice period.

Maybe one should read Meditation Works to get an "objective" view of different meditation styles to end this Buddhism vs Taoism debate once and for all.

His book looks interesting.

It cannot. That's why I see eg. the mission in Afghanistan doomed to fail. Lack of personal interaction is the main issue in internet forum. It is too easy to be non-compassionate against someone on the internet. Well, Lao-Tzu and Buddha left some traces for humanity that we are still working on to integrate in our lives. The question whether we have more peace now than a hundred or thousand years ago is difficult to say. In the end it makes it even more important to cultivate oneself.

"Vitality, Energy, Spirit", p. 233. Liu I-Ming, Commentary on Yin Convergence: "A sage said: 'If for one day you can master yourself and return to considerate behavior, the whole world will return to humanity.'

I think it is written that way so outsiders couldn't easily understand the practices and that oral transmissions were/are necessary. Sometimes I wonder how far Taoism would have gone if there were a "straight-forward" approach like the eight fold Buddhist path.

Alan Watts in his "Tao: the watercourse way" also believes that both Chuang Tzu and Lao Tzu were of the mind school and not energy/immortal school. I'm not sure whether the mind school like Completely Real Taoism (I think) or the Hsien School (Immortality) came first. CowTao: I think Taoism is a (almost) complete path if you read a bit more than Tao Te Ching. It seems that the sages were naturally at ease with the thought of death both to yourself and relatives. It is a just a transformation (returning to the void) and not an end so there is nothing to worry about. The only thing I have found missing in Taoism is the lack of focus on compassion. Regarding the mind versus energetic practices I have recently begun to wonder if it all is in the mind and whether energetic practices are absolutely necessary - maybe these are just different path to the same goal and for some people energetic practices are better in that you "get out of your head" and get better "rooted".

Yes, I understand perfectly. I own an apartment as well. That's why I wrote "part" because tax laws wary in different countries. The interest is still a part of the mortgage. So why should this be deductible? People without food and shelter, that's poor - economically. They may be rich in other ways.

Why should you be able to deduct a part of your mortgage? You bought a house/apartment and this should not concern the state. I don't like either that people are not paying taxes. However, poor people are generally socially outcast from mainstream society and lots of them are wrecks emotionally, so I don't envy them.

Of course my comment about food and a bed can be interpreted as selfish, but in the end would it not be better if people cultivated instead of worrying about economics and creating a super-efficient capitalist society? Can you really do anything about how the world goes around anyway? Welfare in all so-called welfare states includes everybody in that society including the president, ministers and also rich people in tax deductions which poor people cannot take advantage of. Work smart, not hard. In an office you only work efficiently about 4 hours a day (I read this somewhere), so why are people working more than 4 hours per day?

How can you know if you are doing the microcosmic orbit correctly? What are the feelings involved? Can you have blockages up the spine and still have vibrations in the third eye? (this has happened to me, I think).

I don't think money will collapse. In the end all countries are dependent on each other. Eg. if the US collapses China will collapse also because of much less market demand. So all countries will try to avoid collapses and chaos but of course inefficient economies means less money for you and me - which is a real problem. Some libertarians are trying to create floating cities http://seasteading.org/ which looks like a great idea to avoid big government but it has its share of problems as well.

Once I worried a lot but if you see it as a cyclic phenomenon, it is expected. What goes up comes down and maybe a taoist approach is just to watch the "flow" as it changes. Here in Denmark we will have less money to spend - however I still have food on my table and a bed to sleep in, so in the end, what's the big deal? I am slowly getting used to not to read news that often and that helps a lot to lessen worry and anxiety.

Well, I ordered the Cleary translation of the Secret of the Golden flower the day before lifeforce started this thread. Hopefully, I can benefit from the method as well.

Can anybody tell me if this standing set is more powerful in opening the meridians and gather chi than the Zhan Zhuang from "Way of Energy"? In Way of Energy there is no use of mind, you just stand there. In this set - as I tried it one time - you use intent to guide the chi - to your hands in one of the positions.