laughingblade

I do disagree. Forgive my frankness: My opinion FWIW is that you're too idealistic right now. I know 'cos I can be too. Easily solved by putting butt-cheek to cushion.

Bodhisattva, won't you take me by the hand?

Contending with the monkey... stumble and grumble, at the "those who know do not speak" implication. Isn't that just so tired by now? Anyway, I can't get everywhere, so I have to rely on others' experience to pre-filter (especially when it comes to brain surgery to investigate consciousness, or re-running the Stanford Prison Experiment). What should I do? Head East, or is it West? Maybe Kwai Chang Kane had the right approach? Just one Tulku to be sure, but a Tulku is supposed to be a conscious reincarnation isn't he? And also trained in precisely the inner practices that elaborate on the mystery of death. And AFAIK he didn't just smile inscrutably, he actually admitted to not knowing. But yeah! I'd LOVE to travel, and meet folks, and do long retreats, and all sorts. Just haven't got (and can't quite see how to, without causing a deal of suffering to others) the setup to do it right now. Sometimes I grumble about that as well.

Sorry, misheard you

Look again: Samatha (jhanas) and Vipassana require nothing to be taken on faith. Empirical, repeatable, attested to by many.

I stumble here, as I stumble when people tell me their NDEs tell them something about what happens after death. And an outdated belief that you're dead when the heart stops beating. It's like some other monkey-brain takes me over yelling "you weren't DEAD dude!" I used to think the Buddhists knew a bit about it, but then when I finally read the Abidharma it weaselled out of the bits about how we come in and go out: shame really since it's so detailed on just about every aspect of experience. Then I used to think the Tibetan Buddhists knew a bit about it: Book of the Dead, indestructible drops etc. Then I read (English philosopher) Juilan Baggini in The Ego Trick where he pins a well-respected Tulku on precisely this question and the Tulku admits he's just learned that stuff. Maybe the Taoists know something? (edit: monkey-fingers)

If suffering is your thing then maybe investigate the original meaning of dukkha. Buddha Gautama had a lot to say about increasing happiness, reducing suffering, and a consistent approach leading to those outcomes.

Actually you're not really around to experience what's going on now either: it's just that the light seems to be on where it's happening.

What happens after death? Same sort of thing as happens now, except you're not around to experience it.

David I think you need to take to your cushion mate.

Que? I'm reminded of Monty Python's Spanish Inquisition sketch. All you need is the element of surprise, and then it will be a complete path all by itself.

Hi David! No offence intended - it's all fairly fluid gender-wise these days. And yes, corrupt *was* a little strong. While making no claims myself to enlightenment I know plenty who do so I'm basing my comments on what they tell me, and while they have varying abilities none are AFAIK omniscient. I think you're misinterpreting the phrase 'without limits' to mean 'with and ability you can imagine'. Such abilities are functions of various vehicles, while enlightenment is beyond the conditions of any vehicle - liberation from them all, as you say. With respect, I think when you're enlightened (and I sincerely hope you get it) you'll see that the 'glimpses' you've had so far were nothing of the sort, and that the realisation blows anything prior to it to smithereens. We do agree that concentration is but the first step on the path. You'll agree then that if mantra leads (merely) to concentration it doesn't lead to enlightenment.

DSCB57's logic is corrupt - s/he wants a person enlightened by another technique to argue why mantra cannot get enlightenment - that's fallacious. If I got it via X then why should I know anything at all about Y? Enlightenment isn't omniscience. Based on his/her inability to put the point I'd have to say the example is suspect too. Anyway... lots of practices assist with concentration - anapanasati for example. Concentration isn't enlightenment... so with anapanasati ther are other practices/aspects once concentration has been achieved. With mantra... well. I assume the same... so mantra will aid concentration, but not get enlightenment.

Are you having a laugh? Even if we're only hacking the meat there are surely levels of brain function way below the thresholds of conscoius thought... or can you watch individual nerons firing?

How can thought take you beyond thought?

BOOM! Home run. (but what do I know, I'm just the window cleaner?) x

^^ What he said, plus intense aerobic exercise & weights.

Agree with Gerard: foundations first. Something like Bruce Frantzis' Opening the Energy Gates or Eric Yudelove's 100 Days book might be good places to start as both very gentle and easy to follow. Better still, find a local teacher. I'd ignore the idea of Medical Qigong until you're well established.

Fascinating. Seems very appropriate to the position I find myself in. Hexagram Fu / Return is 24. I suppose there's a sense of Innocence in the idea of the return of primordial energy. I have the Wilhelm / Baynes translation: Think I'll get a copy of Cleary's version: I really like the neidan emphasis. It speaks to my internal state.

Thanks 9th. I think I derailed myself, but I really appreciate your pointers back into the historical origins of these ideas in this second post. I've got a lot to study from the material in both. When I've consulted the I Ching in the distant past and went too far there was always the same hexagram and reading that seemed to hint "I already told you", so I'm going to do some study to open out these ideas.

This post just cracked my head open. Thanks. There's a further angle which interests me. Although it may derail the thread I wonder if you have any suggestions: DNA covers the predecessor / successor dimension of consciousness manifesting. What about rebirth? It seems orthogonal to the DNA process. Abhidamma (sp?) says the consciousnesses are pretty much the same pre / during / post life, and that karmic load comes along for the ride. Impressions during life are stored in 'bhavanga' in the heart centre. It's unclear to me how those impressions get rolled into ongoing karma, let alone made available to successors. Then you have the indestructible drop in the heart - the coming in and going out place. Obviously I've done my procreating before death, but how does any Immortal Embryo development carry forward? So I'm mixing Buddhist with Taoist here I know...

It's easy to get into states of relative torpor with 'clearing the mind'. These can be quite pleasant, but not really moving things along. Even with simply sitting after a while there's always something else going on to pay attention to, investigate, let go to go deeper. I wonder if some more active approaches might energise and/or move you on? Shamatha / Vipassana from the Buddhist tradition where the idea is strong concentration and insight into the nature of things. Nei Gong leading to Nei Dan in the Taoist tradition where the emphasis is on energetic cultivation. Regarding QiGong practice I'm in favour of doing a standardised form frequently. Something like 8 Pieces of Brocade perhaps. Over time that will work your physical structure consistently as a support for further development. When we're starting out it can be tempting to 'let it happen', but usually there's quite a bit of purification and healing to be done before energy flow is possible along all channels. Going free-form early might result in energy moving where it moves easily rather than where it 'should' move for a balanced development. I've met teachers who have free-form alongside prescribed forms, and those who give an initiation to "light the fire" so that free-form has a particular 'flavour'. But for most of us starting out without such a teacher it's valuable to keep to the well-trodden paths.

I'm not sure how DNA is passed between species. If you meant to say that perhaps you cold clarify a little. I'm quite interested in the radical idea that spiritual practice might change a person's DNA during their lifetime, and that maybe somehow by association with a lineage some aspect of that lineage might get baked into DNA. Is our childrens' DNA different as a result of our practice? We know that senescence occurs partly through DNA mis-writes when cells reproduce - maybe this can be affected by practice. Then there are epigenetic effects where inheritable changes to gene expression occur causing cells to 'read' the genes differently. I've not heard anybody discuss DNA and spiritual practice before - is there more you can say, or sources you can reference?

So you've got nothing but insults? Is this your awakening? Is this what you teach? TBH I thought I'd take a different approach, and you did say I could be a sceptic until the last drop. Still, per the quote you kindly included: show us the proof, or a methodology. Should be easy if you know.