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So i guess i had to post this, i used to be active under same account like 8 yrs ago. I dabble with KAP and other western systems

What is illegitimate about this? Not trying to incite an arguement, i'm genuinely curious... (I have been gone from this site for a while and I remember this was a real hotly debated topic before)

I highly, highly reommend KAP. Even with the price, you can retake it again for $100. I'm on my third try. This time with Tao Semko who is very much my style of teacher. He is very analytical and breaks things down so that its clear to everyone. Santiago is very good as well, just different. Thats the beauty of being able to re-take it... you can try out the different teachers and get different layers of understanding. Overall, KAP is facilitating some very positive changes in my life!!

awesome!! I'm a fan of that book and how it relates to Robert Anton Wilson and Timothy Leary's stuff... Are you going to sign up for the class?

Indeed. I thoroughly enjoyed this flick! I'd say it was a "food for the spirit" kind of movie!!

K: That's a good question... It's one of the big philosophical doozies that people have constantly trying to explain. Like "why do bad things happen to good people" This is something I constantly think about also. Why everybody experiences trauma (or suffering to some degree) so much. Some consider it "karma". Suffering is just part of life, just like pleasure. In fact, in this dance of duality; one is defined by the absense of the other. Can't have pleasure without suffering. On a more practical level, there simply aren't enough resources to meet all of our needs; physical, emotional, spiritual, etc... Then the fact that other people/creatures are trying to get their needs met also, so there's inherent competition. That's what war is, ultimately. Dude talks about the difference between hard and soft traumas also. So whereas everyone hasn't experienced straight up war zones, most everyone has come across some kind of emotional traumas in their life. I think these have their cause in ignorance about and pursuit of getting out human needs met. For example, a kid feels self-concious at school so he picks on some other kids lower in the pecking order to make himself important. Hopefully us humans will figure out the difference between what we need and want and come up with more clever ways to meet those needs. Like sports is a good example. Instead of raping and pillaging, guys can play competetive sports to harness those instincts in a positive way. anyway, that's my sunday morning ramble... booyah!

I do some squats... or I do "earth shaking" with is something I learned in KAP... have been loving it! basically it's a mix between horse stance and a squat... just go down so your in horse stance and then bounce up and down! Do that for 10 or 20 minutes. I wondered the same thing as you in regards to being above ground level... and i find doing something physical is better than just mentally visualizing something! Or you can always visualize WHILE your doing the physical!!

Ill have to check these out also. I read his The Secret Teachings of All Ages and have the companion to that marked on my amazon page...

I just wanted to chime in that Eastern Body, western Mind by Anodea Judith IS a really good book, I just picked it up in fact... Kinda synchronistic you guys mention it actually! She really talks a lot about importance of grounding... And ties in a western psychological perspective... I know that for myself at least, imagining spinning intra-dimensionsl balls of light can be a little out there at first

Well... there's always NPR, if your into that... ...or the Daily Show... seriously though, you get more scoops from there than the "real news"!

IM by no means his biggest fan... like I said, he was pretty much a jerk on a personal basis (from the sources, it seems); but I dont think he ate babies and tortured puppies. Although there is a story of him killing a cat, which i find very disturbing, as I like animals, especially cats. I was really into his stuff a while back, but much of the western "magick" stuff is very much in the HEAD. Like memorizing all the Kabbalistic correspondences... ugh! I'd rather do some qigong. Still, I do live in my head a lot so I am drawn back to that stuff a lot. Like this am, spent my morning free time reading The Baptists Head instead of doing any physical exercise... And I have heard good things about Franz Bardon. Been meaning to check him out.

nah! His comments about sacraficing babies had to do with "retention" or in his case; "anti-retention"... ie, he liked to let his "babies" get sacraficed for pleasure... ya dig? Yea, he was a jerk! ALso a junky and and bisexual... but if you read his stuff he was f'ing brilliant. Responsible for bringing attention to a lot of practices we wouldn't know about today if it wasn't for him. He deliberately provoked people by making comments to offend their sensibilities... remember; he lived in Victorian England, a place where piano legs had to have covers so as not to be "indecent"... sheesh... If you actually read his work he was a Christian. He just hated the organization that uses that name. Read The Eye In The Triangle, by Israel Regardie for the best analysis of the man.

There's also some interesting connections between the mythical Prometheus and Lucifer. Prometheus was the champion of humans and brought us knowledge of fire, and was punished as a result. Lucifer means "bringer of light", which is different than the Christian notion of him as just the ultimate evil. Also, a lot of the notions we have of 'the devil' are Christian twistings of earlier pagan teachings that were a lot less nefarious than we come to believe. I believe the image of the horned goat is a twisting of early fertility gods, like Pan. Thus the root of the word "horny". Basically a demonization of our sexual impulse... and we can see how that's working out for the Catholic church (ie; sex scandals). Even the word HELL didn't mean what we believe it to be today, I think it was just a place in the earth... I remember hearing that the native americans where really put off with the christian idea that the center of earth was supposedly a place of great evil. Maybe that explains why Western culture is so destructive of our earth. Un-grounded. Interesting that the base chakra (muladhara) is associated with RED (the color of the devil). This isn't to say there isn't actual evil in the world, or to say that evil is a good thing. of course not. Just that many of the things that masquerade as good are in fact evil and likewise... it gets complicated