That Guy

Well why not challenge it?! If you have the truth on your side you have nothing to fear right? And if you can prove your stuff to them they will have faith! but you cant prove it with words or even a basic demonstrations, you have to prove it to them in a way they would be unable to reject it, in a controlled environment. Where does Ya Mu practice? just out of curiosity? And have you read about "orgone" energy, is that real? is that chi? why did it vanish from science? Thats te closest thing I found to chi being discovered. Thats why I am mentioning it

GIH The reason I have faith is science is because both you and I can look around and see what has been made possible using it. Computers, Aircraft, Satellites, Submarines and so on. Its not faith, the effects of science are right in front me, literally Some may be theories, and thats fine too, because it's a theory and thats how it presents itself. And yeah I will just have to have faith in science, but seeing what it is capable of doing (good and bad) its track record is quite impressive.

Ya Mu, if I ever get the funding you're on! But right now I couldnt afford the lab you mentioned for 5 minutes. Now I know you dont wanna hear this, but just thought of it, why not win Randis challenge and fund the research using that million? just a thought. The study of qi has been going on for millennia right? So it shouldn't be its infancy, why not get a group of "genuine" masters and high level practitioners and set something up though? something practically undeniable! for the world to see? You happen to mention animals, well because I am open minded and willing to experiment contrary to popular belief in this thread So anyway my dog has 1 bad eye, problem seem to be dry eyes, no tears get produced so this eye slime and whatnot builds up and it seems constantly irritated, its been a few years and no vet can help, best we can do is soothe the irritation, but even then it hurts to see him like that. Please recommend something I could try even as a sceptic. Thank you I will probably read the data you posted sometime. Albert, I will communicate my beliefs and challenge yours, thank you Wudangspirit, it does feel pretty good to have mastered the world But seriously, I have taken time, how many times must I repeat this point.....? I just want the time back, or exchange it for some more useful knowledge or skill. Maybe I m here to find out what keeps you doing what you do?

Well I've seen dentists with bad teeth and doctors who don't seem to take care of their health. People who push others on a different path from their own because they want the person to be better than what they are. I say its possible

Thanks -O-, you are quite correct. LEt me try and put things in a simpler for here using short points. - I have spent time looking into and trying some stuff out, not had a master though maybe thats why I'm so lost - I target more the spiritual/paranormal side and claims made by your practices - I am sceptical, I like the scientific approach because it is more reliable (ps this doesnt mean I am an evil western consumer who is a materialist ass, I am quite the minimalist). I quite dislike how some people view the west, it's not perfect but its the best at some of the things it does! Would you get operated on my an acupuncturist? herbalist? psychic surgeon? or a top "western" surgeon? (don't say you believe in prevention, because bad things can happen to anyone) - I believe the is great philosophical knowledge to be be gained from some texts, philosophy not some kinda magic wizardry or divinity - Being open minded doesn't mean you believe everything you hear could be true. Be open minded, but not to open minded because your brain might fall out! ( read it somewhere sometime, cant remember where ) - If masters have supernatural abilities they should stop being selfish or sissies and at the very least prove that such things exist! Nothing more nothing less. - Expanding on the last point, I dont care if you say its better kept secret because such knowledge is dangerous! WeLL you know whats more dangerous? s-e-c-r-e-c-y , because an uninformed public becomes easy pickings. - Where is chi?! I want it found and tested. If some masters would have the balls to show this stuff is real with the help of scientists, then maybe science can create some instrument to measure it! You say the knowledge is too dangerous for the world? well I'm much afraid of countries having nukes than a country of people meditating... I would say the country would become too docile to attack anyone by the time they gained their power, but that boxer dude has shown me that might not be the case - Visualising things over and over and over I would not recommend, I'm sorry, if there is something there you should feel it or find it without imagining it so much. - If a delusion makes you happier, then well good for you, but at the same time thats not dealing with the problem, you're just running away, you're just deluding yourself into thinking "its ok" when it might not be. Worst even you could be cheating yourself out of real things that could be by running away... Thats all for now, I gotta go and I hate making a post in two sittings Look forward to your responses

I m sorry scotty, I really did believe you were being honest in what you said And for the record whats wrong in believing in science?? I believe in it because it has to be prven to be accepted, it not about just "some feeling" you get... And whats up with that? I said I did experiment, and concluded I was wasting my time, seeking something that isn't really there, something you have to believe unconditionally to find, and thats just ridiculous to me... Do I need to believe in wind for it to blow me away? in water to get wet? in fire to get burned? And since when does science mean materialism? Science is the study of the world around you, it just happens to include matter I m actually quite the minimalist, I only want what I need and a few luxuries that the modern world has, like a computer and internet Science isn't evil, its strict, it just asks you to "prove it!" And if you can't thats that then. Whats taking them so long to find chi?? I think James Randi is quite a prick, but he does expose fakes, and Im thankful for that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u7yDLRib5CQ . I wanna see a master win his prize money, but it still hasnt happened, and even though you ll say masters dont care about money, or want to remain in secret what about that immature little punk, who happens to have received some simple "paranormal" power? All these years and not one has shown up and won... Now I dont know if any of you listen to coast to coast am, but once in a while Uri Geller comes up, and they still treat the guy as some kinda psychic, when its been proven hes a fraud. I just can't believe how people can sometimes deny these things when the evidence is so strong! I want a master to prove chi beyond a shadow of a doubt, I want an enlightened person to show us why is he more than just a philosopher I wanna see things accepted out in the open by a panel that has nothing to really gain and no attachment to it, I want the truth! (and I know I said no attachments, we all have attachment to our realities blah blah, but you know if you come across a reality so much greater than your attachment you will probably be detached) ps. Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that, I thought you probably did like it, I know a fellow narutard when I see one Maybe I have received extended intuition from practising my own system And yeah I said I was gone but Once i started typing to scotty I just kept going

Well seems people enjoy bashing me after I'm gone, so I must have hit a sensitive nerve on some wise spiritual all accepting practitioners. Little1, YOU SHOULD BE IMPRESSED! I could say this in some blog somewhere and just delete your immature comments, but I do it here, in fair ground where all be heard. I prefer to say it to your face rather than behind your backs. Does it really matter if you know nothing of me? I m here to discuss some of your spiritual practice and dare I say it, delusion. You obviously lost sight of what this topic was about due to your emotions, you became deluded.... Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that Thanks for the support, but go read Naruto, it may teach you some new skills. Check this out, proper Tang chi penetrating attack! This is how you can penetrate hard surfaces using chi! There is cartoon violence so be careful! sheng zhen, nanashi, 松永道 for example had something constructive and interesting to say, thank you

Thanks guys for not thinking of me as a troll And dont worry I still feel welcome, I mean longrhythm even wants to spar with me , but maybe its best to let this be.....for now Ok this is it! Thanks guys, but for the record I m right jk please dont beat me D;

Ok this is it, cause I don't wanna be a troll! Lucky7 I meant more on the secrecy side of things you reminded me of that guy, not that you told crazy stories, just my chain of thought as I typed, sorry Stig Thanks for the advice, but as gold said, no punches should be held back( get it longrhythm ), or else you re not being honest. And besides longrhythm made my day! I just hope he doesn't end it Creation Blue is a vibrations, even if you see it differently its there! chi well, you know where i stand on that one... I wanna see it! I wanna believe! But I cant just accept it out of the blue (get it ) because i get a tingly feeling or something I ll pick up the book if i get the chance, but like Kostas book, proposing all these revolutions and new ways of thinking which amount to nothing really....has he done anything to prove chi exists since his magus of java book came out? will chang sifu EVER change his mind on proving chi to the world? I can try again sometime ifi have loads of free, my motives are a quest for the truth Shooting fireball would be cool too though Ok bye bye for now, but please feel free to keep discussing the topic if you wish to

What if the scientist is right? You may ask what if he is wrong? But the most important thing to me is that the scientist wont accept what he doesnt know for sure. hey do some things, but only because the smaller pieces of the puzzle the know for sure, shows them the larger picture. I guess your perception is just tooo grey for me gold, because we all make mistakes, misinterpret things, imagine things etc. I like my info dry boring and reproducible

YOu're a cool guy alex, keep at t then, maybe I'll try a real master if I come across one that seems authentic to me. And for the record the type of meditation m talking about is the type that will fill up you dantian, get your chi flowing and that type of stuff. The type of meditation that simply keeps you calm is good, I agree! BUT i see it more as sitting still and relaxing, its good for you no doubt! sit in half lotus or sit back and relax on the couch are the same thing to me. I mean since when did relaxing, calming down and meditation become the exact same thing?

OMG! Meditation aint helping you keep your cool much is it? Dang dude! Meditate all you can please, even better turn Buddhist and love all living creatures, including me. Erhmmm did you call me a punk ass or sign off as punk ass? (just trying out that humility stuff)

I wouldnt want you to break your rules. But how do you know what you feel is chi?! If it can be felt whats the hold up? whats taking so long for its discovery and acceptance into the knowledge bank of the world? I m glad it seems to have changed your life in a large and positive way it seems, but so does taking LSd for some. Goldisheavy cant you say the same the other way around? You have some vivid fantasy and according to your belief you ll see it as something more than "mind wind"? The difference is I believe is what can be proven not to be just mind wind but real. Ryan Well if it works for you great, but you know you dont have to meditate to live in the moment, you can just live in the moment, and spend that extra time skiing some more and living that moment too. But thats just me, maybe I ve cultivated in some way more than i m aware of.

There is so much to read and reply to, I m just gonna try and get the gist of it, sorry if I miss some of the points you guys have spent your time making, but please understand the flurry I must try to reply to Ok first I trust science because it must be proven (yes not everywhere, but somethings we are not able to prove yet for many reasons). Science is about repeating an experiment and getting the same results, and based on these discoveries of how things work we can do and create great things. I trust my judgement, because I have a huge ego but seriously, because I have no real attachment to your spiritual practices and see no real benefit in them I can conclude you'd be better off doing something else which carries greater benefit. I'm glad masters of the past brought up the "mental wind" problem, however how can we know the master didnt have mental wind? He could be seeing chi as blue, then his student says "master master i saw chi, its green!" master says "sorry its blue, you have mental wind" I want repeatable, authentic spirituality, its too all over the place, and has too many gaps. Its like a bad excuse, you know the person making it is lying cause theyre inconsistent and withhold important info Again sorry to miss any points you make... Lucky7Strikes, you are lucky, because I will reply more directly to you Like I said before, no need for teaching your dangerous practice, just prove that its real, chi exists! You can cultivate it and use it! Even if the whole world seeks the master out he doesnt have to accept all the students! We all know nuclear weapons exist, we havent all been taught how to make one, we dont have this kinda info or materials for it left lying around for all to use either. Its good they teach us about it though, so we can all know about them and what they re capable of. Yeah I read kostas book, the story of liaou sifu (think that was his name) who took out a whole village with his chi, did more than any machine gun could thats for sure! But for that story to matter it would ave to be true. Show me! please! Show me something that proves such power is possible! You know you remind me of this guy whose posts I read called "SeanDenty" I think it was, the guy was freakin awesome!! his stories were crazy cool yo! but well, thats just the problem, they were stories with nothing to back them up... Someone asked my intentions when trying this stuff, simply put it was to find out for myself. And I read and practised what I could find here and there, and some is body function info some lucid dreaming stuff, some meditation and whatever else i came across. none of it really benefited me though, it was more like yeah ok thats that then... I meditated and OBEd most consistently, until I just realised, well this really isnt going anywhere, I m wasting my time taking this seriously.

Yes I know its secret, only the ones who prove themselves worthy can be shown the truth. So lame seriously! Masters seems more like kids if thats their attitude. "Master Somesome is chi real?" "Yes... yes it is..." "Could you show us?" "Sorry only members of my little club are allowed to see it" They re fake, if they werent fake they d at least make an effort to prove it real, they dont have to teach other how to use it, just prove its real, but they dont because they cant! They could revolutionise the world by proving it, and any real master would.... What are they afraid of?! i mean seriously!? publicity? fame? too many students? making an evil person powerful? I d asy a guy with a machine gun is fa more dangerous than a guy who can shoot some chi at people after spending 10 years training. Proving chi would expose people who use it for negative reasons too, thats another plus, so if its real masters might be selfish or cowards, do you have another reason why they d keep it to themselves? Scotty I dnt know if I can save anyone, but I want them to take a good look at what they ve really gained spending their time and money on stuff like this and if it was worth it.

Please dont play that perception card, its so cheap... You can perceive what you like thats true, but the best perception will have the best results, and the the best perception comes from a good solid foundation on the reality you live in. " None of us can decide, or usually even interpret, what matters to someone else" Well I can! so I must be enlightened. Or it could be because instead of sitting there thinking "i cant possibly know that" I go and figure it out. This state of mind "i dont really know anything" is ridiculous! The conversation is interesting, but so are comic books, difference is comic books will not try to sell themselves as being true If you re doing something wrong would you not want to correct it?So you can end up with something better? "We each decide our lives. Some people like to have a quiet life. Some people like to join spiritual forums to tell everyone that they're delusional. No choice is wrong." No its not wrong, but it is a mistake, because it could be better! I feel some are cheating themselves out f what could be, thats what makes me sad.... I can stereotype things which are based on an idea though, because doesnt matter how many different types of people there are that believe it, if the idea is wrong its wrong! Stigward, you re a cool fellow in my books, I guess I m seeking opinions of the delusional, or something that proves they aren't delusional. If there is reason to believe you arent delusional present it! And as you look for that reason you might just find more of a reason to believe you are. And for the recrd I m not an atheist I m very open to the possibility of life after death, a god, a greater purpose etc. But you know, if we were meant to see gods, talk to spirits, feel mystical energy we would have been granted that. If we havent been given those gifts and knowledge in this realm what makes you think god would slip up and leave you free to regain these by siting around doin nothing or special exercises? And one last thing, i m more after the spiritual side of things or people making spiritual sense out of what is obviously physical like the requirements of your body for example. Addendum: ryansmith, you have an active lifestyle, but instead of stopping and meditating why not ski more for example? unless you need the break why stop? While you meditate do you remember "i was skiing yay!" and become happy again? or whilst you ski you think " i cant wait to meditate on this experience it will be awesome!" I m sorry I just dont get how meditation enhances your other experiences... "You're the one missing out. Not us. ." been there tried that, all I missed out on was the extra time I could have spent doing something else, sorry...

Yeah stuff like that makes me sick You know if you wanna fight do it in the ring or something, there are plenty of people even willing to pay 2 guys to bash each others faces in. I dont care if its a brutal sport because at least the guys in it know what they re in for and have agreed to it, some poor random guy on the street who gets attacked wasnt asking for any of it! And the worse part is that the nes being attacked if they re good people they might still have second thoughts about harming the other guys, I know I would think twice before firger thrusting someone in the eyes, and by the time they realize they re in a "its me or him" situation it could be too late. Do you guys think if martial arts had remained on the deadly side of things it would have been better? By that I mean you dont go to a dojo to practice moves get fit, have fun etc. The dojo was a place where you learned to kill or cripple your opponent as quickly as possible the end.

Ok it is done!

Well the master was obviously using his internal power to beat his opponents, until he got one whose ki was far greater than his I guess.. And its fair to say they were under restriction, but even then it was pretty bad. I'm sure a tae kwon do fighter would have fought better under the same restrictions though ( i pick tkd as an example because they rely on kicks a lot last I heard) Your video is interesting and shows great balance and technique by the master, but would he really be able to defend himself in the guy were to really attack him? I ve seen some more impressive "kung fu" fights, but they resemble kick boxing/sanshou. I dont see any bagua rotations for example, I ve always wanted to see that in practice I got some more videos: Ok I dont know how real it is, by that I mean how much they were suppose to hold back This is the real deal kung fu I guess, not sure if "Northern Praying Mantis" is internal though Not sure what this is, but it was kinda funny with the music and all And one more, better sparring, but could they stand up to an mma fighter from the local gym? EDIT: I think tai chi and other arts like that have benefits and are worth practicing BUT is it really what you'd wanna rely on when defending yourself is the question for me.

After reading what orb and the opposition had to say, this fight between internal and external martial arts came to mind, so have a look Whats your opinion on this? EDIT: This too came right after I posted the reply Its poor quality, in more ways than one...