effilang

You read too many books and cling to too many words and meanings...

Looks like you've read them to be able to qualify their content, or are you just on your typical run of prejudiced suppositions

I think it's great that there are many of us here sharing their experiences and understandings of what they have learned throughout their lives. At the very least, if nothing else is grasped of it, it is amusing and enjoyable. It's also inevitable that our ideas will sooner or later find a point of friction between us; and this too is ok, amusing and sometimes educational. What I really have a hard time accepting is that as soon as someone puts a few sentences in some quotes and slaps a name on the back of it, nobody dares question it, hypnotized by the lore of the ancient. Some people's attitudes on here are leaning towards an almost religious type of book worshiping as opposed to adopting the very attitude that brought about all these wonderful discoveries; the attitude of the adventurer, such as were the inquisitive ancient Taoists of the past, the scientist of antiquity. How certain are you of everything written in books or even of that spoken by other people? How many here have actually become Taoist immortals? What percentage of the path are we really qualified to preach to others that is born of our own direct experience and accomplishment of it, and what part is of the written and spoken experiences of other people, be it your teacher or the practitioners of the past? Are our beliefs based on our experiences of books and the experiences of others or of our own personal experiences; and if they are based of your own experiences, are you certain that every persons' body and mind experiences the same thing in exactly the same way, enough that you can categorically exclude or include others if they don't correspond to your said experiences? We all choose to believe what we want to believe, what is convenient to believe, but most importantly what we have been taught to believe; regardless of whether we are taught by books or by other people. Any person can be made to believe a truth if they are conditioned long enough, anyone. I have never been a person whom believes in one thing and clings to it. Before I was initiated, I did not believe in the claims of Xiao Yao Pai, but I did the only thing a curious person could and explored them so I could verify it's claims for myself. If another system came along today and made great claims, I would be just as curious and skeptical, but more than happy to explore. After all, how can you truly know something, if you don't go and find out? How can you judge it, if not yet again from the experience of others? You MUST have direct experience. This is my opinion only, of course, but I believe that the mind of a true Taoist practitioner should be open and not rigid; fixed or married to any one belief. Even if that very belief was later verified through personal experience and achievements of the very results held by those beliefs were made; those are still YOUR experiences and you shouldn't be too sure that others will experience the discovery of those truths in the same way, even if they are of one and the same origin. This is why we have different schools, different methods, different systems and different principles, but if they are authentic, they will lead to the same destination. There is a funny saying; but aptly true: The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.

Naturally, he questions everyone, but when someone questions him; it's the good old disappearing act. Why am I not surprised .

To those whom have the ability to do so, for the purposes of investigating whether our schools' practice is authentic and leads to Yang Shen and Gong, I give you my blessing and invite you to establish a connection with my Fu Fa Shen in order to directly investigate his nature for your selves. Enjoy it

That is never my intention and not a tenet of our school. What may come across as ambition is really just my sincere enthusiasm in giving serious practitioners an opportunity to experience a system that is capable of helping and supporting their cultivation from the very place they seek to be. I remember reading about alchemy a long time ago and the author was explaining how he began to cry as he was writing the discriptions of some of the methods, because it reminded him of how hard it was and how many mistakes he had to make to finally find a method that worked. It is from a similar place that my enthusiasm spawns I've always said that initiation is nothing more than an opportunity to verify the explanations of our school. An opportunity to say, "these guys are talking bullshit" or "wow, they weren't kidding." How much more can you give a person? Initiated or not, we are all tasked with the heavy duty of self-cultivation, and not everyone has access to a teacher or can afford to pay one for the rest of their natural life. Fu Fa Shen is an incredibly convenient bridge from Taiji to Wuji whereby anyone cultivating neidan will be able to use it's wisdom to expedite the process and receive safety, protection and guidance where it would otherwise be difficult to have. Our way is certainly not the best way or the only way, but it is the most efficient and straight-forward in my own experience, because nothing beats having a teacher that knows what they are doing. Everyone can come to test our truth. For 2 days in the year anyway : ) Nothing beats personal experience.

A business, with only 2 working days in the year? Yeah, thats a really solid business plan you got there - haha. We are actualy a registered NPO... If you don't mind, I'd appreciate it if you would refrain from resorting to derogatory statements and name calling; surely you can be civil? I didn't hear you comment anything about the picture I posted of our grandmaster initiating Quanzhen priests? You do know that Quanzhen specialise in Neidan right? - Yet, these priests from one of the main branches of Taoism (as well as others we've initiated) can all seamlessly incorporate Tao Yin Shu into their practice without any conflict to the teachings, and I'll tell you why; because there is no conflict, but you can't see that, because you grasp on to the superficial. "Recruiting" - for what? After an initiation, a Tao Yu can leave and never engage in any form of communication or contact with any members of our school if he so chooses to. Regardless, this does not hinder them from advancing with our system on their own, at their own pace and at their own discretion, through Fu Fa Shen. All one needs to do is simply request Fu Fa Shen's presence. It is on duty after all. There is no need to try to inject these petty doses of malicious shots here and there. You are ambitiously trying to distort our schools image, but you're never going to be able to do it, because you have no direct experience of the defining art of our system; Tao Yin Shu. Until you've had an opportunity to verify whether what I say is false or true, you're just a speculator. Only a fool would claim he knows what he has no personal knowledge of. I'd like to think that you are not at this level. Which part of it should I see. The part he agreed with me, or the part he agreed with me? And "that" phrase has plenty to do with Neidan. Ok then , rely on your faith and your beliefs. I'll stick to direct experience before I decide make up my mind about anything. To each his own. Right. As I had mentioned before the commonality of our arts, lies beneath the surface. Sadly, some people, cough-cough, can't see beneath it. If you are an admirer of Liu Yimings' findings, you will appreciate what I said before in that, when the subtle alchemical ingredients of the formed postnatal San Bao are transmuted and then combined with the alchemical ingredients of the formless prenatal San Bao; their fusion will bring about the state of what he calls the "precelestial breath of unity", which is beyond the aforementioned as it is a result of their fusion as opposed to their separation. That is to say that there are two transmutations taking place here. A lesser one and a greater one. The prenatal Yang quality resides within the postnatal Yin quality as Kan ☵. That is how we can use the physical body as a laboratory to extract the prenatal Yang and this is why consciousness enters it. This is the Hou Tian state, the birth of Yang. To reverse the process, the prenatal Yang which is hidden between the postnatal Yin Yao of Kan must be combined with postnal Li ☲. During this interaction the prenatal Yin and Yang separate and energetically exchange places creating the outer alchemical agent. This is the result of combining the postnatal san bao of Li and Kan and this is the first transmutation and involves "doing". This is unity, but not GREAT UNITY. For this process to take place, the fire of the heart (Li) must be directed into the lower dan tian so it can mingle with Kan. But since there is no way to do this physically, we use the intention and the eyes, which are connected to the heart (where Li resides) and can direct the spirit's influence. This way Li can be directed to Kan under the navel. When the Fire mixes with the Water, the postnatal Jing will stop flowing down and out of the genital organs and the postnatal Shen will stop rising up and out of the eyes. The fire (Li) of the Shen will then scortch the water (Kan) of the Jing to produce vapor (Qi) and will soon lead to the first unity of the poscelestial San Bao; the outer alchemical agent. This will produce the white light of lesser unification (Yin Qi) and is the first internal birth; the result of the mixing of Kan and Li. The second birth, does not involve "doing" or movement or direction. It happens naturally as a result of the first birth and manifests as the golden light of Yang Qi to form the inner alchemical agent. When these two mix together, Yin Qi and Yang Qi or (Kan ☵ + Li ☲) + (Qian ☰ + Kun ☷) = then you will get GREAT UNITY or what Liu Yiming calls the precelestial breath of unity, the result of the union of post celestial san bao with precelestial san bao to produce the immortal embryo, fetus and child. This alchemical transformation is what brings about what he calls true Unity, not just unity, but true Unity. Because with only unity, or the first birth, or the outer alchemical agent, you will get only partially to the goal. This is the fusion of true Yin and true Yang which bring about true Unity, which is not of the Taiji but of the Wuji. There are two births or refinements, first of Kan and Li (postnatal, false Yin and Yang) and then of Kun and Qian (prenatal true Yin and Yang); after which there is a great union. The core is the same... but Fu Fa Shen's approach is very individual due to our differences in psychological, energetic, physical and spiritual make up : )

You make a lot of claims and assumptions about our school, but behind all that, still lies the undeniable truth; that you have no direct experience of our schools' method of cultivation. Because of this your pronouncements are nothing more than unsubstantiated conjecture. On the contrary. Perhaps you just haven't gotten to this stage yet. Neither have I using Hou Tian Xiu. Yet, it is a simple feat to achieve in our school using Xian Tian Xiu. After the postnatal San Bao mix with the Pre-natal Yang Shen and the Yin Shen finally fuses with the Yang Shen in the Shang Dan Tien to create the awakened immortal, then one will have the opportunity to advance their practice through further education in the non-physical dimension. This is also part of the later stages of Neidan. I guess not everything is written in the traditional classics, huh? Sadly, you'll have to resort to stigmatizing that statement I suppose, like everything else that you haven't yet experienced Your mind is truly rigid for a Taoist. One of the main differences between starting from the Hou Tian point of cultivation and turning back to cultivate the Xian Tian state, is that when one reaches this point and the awakened immortal is ready to come out, with most people the awakened Yang Shen immortal is vulnurable to external influences. During initiation with Xiao Yao Pai, there is a divine golden aura of Wuji energy which envelops the Tao Yu. It promotes the return to the Xian Tian state and additionally wards off any negative energetic influences from Yin entities. The aura stays with you until you decide to terminate your connection with the school. This aura also protects the awakened immortal so that it can explore the dimensions with a reduced threat and without the mandatory requirements for extra periods of incubation to mature the young Yang Shen, or as my friend calls it; the baby yang shen : ) Most people cannot detect the golden aura if they have developed using only basic Taiji methods such as Qigong, as the auras energy is beyond Taiji. Very few people can see it, and they always remain in awe. In terms of Yin Shen vs Yang Shen. The Yin aspect of the Shen complex, even when brought to it's respective completion is not the final stage of cultivation possible with the Hou Tian body. This achievement is only partial. Yin Shen is purely a subtle energy form. You will be free of the body and can detach from the reincarnative influence of Taiji so that you can avoid the physical realm and you may advance in the non-physical realm, but without a complete merger of Yin Shen and Yang Shen within the alchemical laboratory of the Hou Tian body, such achievements are said to go only as far as the Gui Xian. There is a reason why the consciousness enters the physical body. It needs needs its ingredients and alchemical substance to create the necessary concotions required to fully persist in the divine realm. Those who fail, will need to try again. As it is said; the problem is that you think you have time. We must practice dilligently. Yin Shen vibrates low enough that it can still be picked up by the human eyes, but it cannot interact with the physical environment due to it's lack of Yang energy. It CAN interact with the Shen of another person, but to do so, one must reduce their awareness and consciousness to a level where the Yin Shen can effectively interface on a similar frequency and assume control. This is similar to what you will find in shamanic traditions where you often have to go into a trance to contact the non-physical dimension. A Yang Shen spirit is different from this. It is the result of the completion stage of the Hou Tian body's cultivation and is the product of the combined Yin Shen and Yang Shen essence of the cultivator, or if you will, the assimilated Yin Shen and the now remaining, Yang Shen. The picture I posted above is of a baby Yang Shen, this is the reverse birth of Xian Tian state as opposed to the forward birth of the human child in the Hou Tian state, which will always lead to a full rotation of the Taiji and the death of the corporeal body. The Yang Shen body possess both polarities, the potential of the Wuji and the will of the mind, which allow it to manifest both in Taiji and in Wuji simultaneously and in unlimited numbers. It's different from the Yin Shen in that it does not need for the body/mind to be in a state of trance or reduced awareness so that it can interface with it or interact with it; it can directly interact with the Taiji realm and the human Shen, Qi and Jing while the human remains in a complete aware state. In our path, the Yang Shen is cultivated immediately after initiation and is gradually awakened from its dormant state with each following session. Yin Shen is not Qing Jing and cannot teach a person how to purify himself to the highest level. Our Fu Fa Shen is not a Gui, Ren, Di or Xian, but a Tian Xian. Here is a picture of our Grandmaster initiating 3 Quan Zhen 全真 "Complete Perfection" Tao Shi (Taoist Priest) from Tian Hou Gong (Tian Hou Temple) Think about why Quan Zhen priests who specialise in Neidan and dual cultivation of Xing and Ming would be inheriting Tao Yin Shu through Xiao Yao Pai if our method was so anti-Taoism? Perhaps it is time to stop reading books alone... You remind me of a meeting of Laozi and Kongfuzi, Opendao : ) Confucius visited Laozi dressed in formal elaborate robes to discuss matters of ceremonial etiquette and tried to explain his belief that new knowledge must be based upon old knowledge...but was interrupted by the old master: Laozi: "The men of whom you speak are long since dead and their bones are turned to ashes in their graves." Laozi: "Put away your polite airs and your vain display of fine robes. The wise man does not display his treasures to those he does not know. And he cannot learn justice from the Ancients." Confucius: "Why not?" Laozi: "The swan does not need to bathe daily to remain white." then abruptly ended the meeting. Confucius later said onto his disciples: "I know that birds can fly and fish can swim and beasts can run. Snares can be set for things that run, nets for those that swim and arrows for whatever flies. But who knows how Dragons ride the wind and cloud up into the sky. Today I saw Laozi. What a Dragon!'" Tai Shang Lao Jun, the treasurer and keeper of spirits, is our highest accomplished one in Xiao Yao Pai He is the consciousness of Laozi and the one to whom we make the request during initiation to assign the immortal spirits to the new Tao Yu in order to guide them on the way back to reality. Don't believe anything I have to say? I'm glad to hear it! By all means doubt me. I encourage it; but when you are ready to find out the truth behind my statements, come to an initiation and verify it for yourself

Even if that was the case, which it is not; you still have no experience of the schools' guided art, that you can discuss against or for it with any credibility. Direct experience is paramount for a complete understanding of the method. Most importantly though, you would realise that hidden in its differences is where the commonality lies,but you must pierce through the superficial appearance with experience, to realise it. Until then this exchange of words between us will always miss it's targets.

Indeed. Even the directional flow of Qi within the meridians in our system is of different configurations to that you will find in any alchemical texts. There are, many, many differences between Taoist schools of cultivation. It is unreasonable to believe that one way is the only way and quite frankly rather immature : ) I agree with this, but it is the post-natal Jing, Qi, Shen that must be fasted in order to settle the Pre-natal Jing, Qi, Shen so that they don't have to continuously transform to the post-natal qualities in order to manifest life, only then can they congeal and the Yuan Jing can return to the Yuan Qi and the Yuan Qi to the Yuan Shen. The fasting is of the post-natal qualities: - The Mind (Shen), The Energy and Breath (Qi) and the Physical Body (Jing). When these are regulated and settled through the proper type of "fasting", then the Pre-natal counter parts can combine. In order to get where we intend to go, we must start from where we are; is it not so, or can we simply teleport to our goal? With some systems the order is different. When the generative fluid is not stirred, the breath can be calm, when the breath is calm the thoughts will be calm, else they pre-natal qualities will stir and move everytime we think. The body, the breath and the mind, must be calmed, then the pre-natal Jing, Qi and Shen can return to their places and rest in preparation for further refinement. It does not matter whether your teacher is physical or non-physical, of this dimension or the other, you still have to do the cultivation yourself and put in the effort. So it makes no difference in that respect. Skepticism is healthy and you are free to question or doubt your FFS We perform a Shen Gong guided by Fu Fa Shen, which rapidly converts the Wuji energy into a Taiji energy the body can contain within the meridian network. A type of step-down transformation process. The lao gong and yongquan points are also opened very early after the initiation for most people.

Once again you misunderstand me. I never spoke about quietude. You create many empty spaces to fill in your favor That depends on the direction of the flow

Not everything that exists is written in books or spoken in words, nor does the absence from such records deprive said things of their authenticity. Once again you misunderstand the nature of our school. There is noone to insist. Believe what you will, go which way you want. It does not matter. Your practice will align you to the path without effort. You needn't worry. Be who you are, however you choose to be. The return is natural. It is through being that we can discover ourselves. At the end of the day, no matter how we decide to be, the adventure will sooner or later lead to the same discovery. There is no rush, no insisting. Just flow with the way (things are.)

The oldest one; life You misunderstand the nature of our school. There is no "conversion" process. You go about your life, your beliefs and your activities as you did. The truth is unfolded naturally and not by force.

I understand your comments opendao as I understand the place from which they spring; I have been to this place, but now I am no longer there. Perhaps if you discover where I have ventured to, you will too see what I can see now. Until then my fellow cultivator, we must agree to disagree on some points . Much love and success.

Q: I've been trying to awaken my energy since 2011 with not much success, will the initiation do this so I will feel it? A: No. The initiation is for the purpose of making a request to Tai Shang Lao Jun to assign an immortal to you. He/She/It will then interface with your Jing, Qi and Shen during your practice sessions and will expedite the energetic refinement process by guiding your San Bao (Three Treasures) into the conditions necessary for effective spiritual transmutation to take place. The process is in reverse, so instead of gathering Jing, to transmute into Qi and then into Shen; during practice we connect to our assigned Fu Fa Shen (Teacher of The Spiritual Method) and it nourishes our Shen directly. It then guides us into a practice called Shen Gong, designed to step-down it's Wuji energy into Taiji where we can harness it and put it to use within the electromagnetic newtork of the body. It is otherwise too powerful and refined to be absorbed by the body directly. With time this reverse process naturally purifies the meridian network, saturates and refines the Shen, Qi and Jing and then the Xia Dan Tien (Lower Energy Center) fills naturally of it's own accord, after which it will rotate about 45 degrees within the lower region of the body and initiate another stage in the alchemical process which in my experience with many other systems, is unique to our school. What initiation will essentially do, is give you the opportunity to study and learn directly from someone who has already achieved what you are aiming to achieve; the fusion of the body's potentials to create the awakened immortal body, which can consciously live outside of the physical vessel and in a non-physical state; a state free from the pull of Taiji and it's reincarnative force, that drives us to be reborn in the physical realm over and over again. You will need to practice just as dilligently as you would if practicing Hou Tian (Post Heavenly) methods on your own, but because this is a guided art, there is no margin for deviation and the path is direct. Hence the name of our practice; Tao Yin Shu 導引术 - The Divine Guidance Art. Don't let the word divine throw you off here if you are an atheist or a non believer. It really is a very misunderstood word, which has sadly been tethered to a lot of the negative influences of some religious paths. Divine is to Non-Physical energy as Corporeal is to Physical-Energy. So what The Divine Guidance Art really means is that during Tao Yin Shu practice, you will be guided by a form of life that exists as pure consciousness, without a body. Your Fu Fa Shen, has for all intensive purposes transcended the physical and corporeal state and propelled it's consciousness from the physical shell into the non-physical, divine, dimension. If you are dilligent, after time, your progress in the art and your progress on the way, will already be years ahead of most people who practice, even if they practice zealously. Your FFS will test and assess you daily and when it deems fit it may recommend you for an examination whereby another examining immortal will test you for the duration of 6 months. Here they will monitor your thoughts, your intention, your conduct, your virtues and your heart and you may be asked questions. So by this time you will need to have developed your communication abilities in order than you can both receive the examining information and send a reply to the non-physical dimension. If you've matured and evolved sufficiently, in body, energy and spirit/mind, you may pass and advance further in the school, inheriting more knowledge and skills, where some of these skills come as a privilge and authority of the school. This is to say that, some skills are self made ie: of the body and a result of the Post Heavenly Jing, Qi and Shen, while others of the Pre-Heavenly Jing, Qi and Shen and then some come by authority ie of a certain body or organization in the physical or non-physical dimensions. For example; the military general of a country whom has authority over the army, may be discharged from his position or demoted and he may lose such authorities as are respective of that position, but you cannot take away his developed skills when it comes to armed or unarmed combat. The end goal of our school is GONG (Emptiness), such as should be the goal of ANY and EVERY authentic system of spiritual cultivation, regardless of it's origin or religious affiliations. Through Tao Yin Shu we merge the 7 po and 3 hun into one body so that we can escape Taiji and perpetuate within the emptiness of Wuji in our original state of formless consciousness energy. What you will feel during the initiation and this goes for over 90% of people is direct interaction with your FFS. He/She/It will interface with your body and guide your hands or legs into movement, in order to prove it is there to you; that the divine realm exists, that immortals exists; that it is all true and there is nothing more to doubt; and most likely it will start refining you immediately, so do not be startled if it moves you into different Yoga-like poses or makes you do certain exercises that you may not be familiar with. If it does not move your body immediately, do not be dissapointed. It is easier to sense the low vibrational movements of the JING; bones, muscles, tendons, but not so easy to sense the movement of the suble electromagnetic Qi energy flowing within the meridians, and even harder to sense the Shen which vibrates faster yet. Yet once you are initiated, transformations will continuously take place on all 3 levels. Fu Fa Shen will refine you where it is necessary. After the initiation you can go home and practice whenever you want, wherever you want, by inviting your Fu Fa Shen to instruct you. It will then begin to interact with you and guide you on the way. It may do so with your body, your energy or your mind, depending on the state of your health and what needs to be addressed to prepare your body for the alchemical processes to come. The vessel must be cleaned in order that the mixtures within are pure and uncontaminated, such as preparing a chemical reaction in a controlled laboratory environment, the instruments must be clean and ucontaminated so the concoction can be pure, effective and will achieve it's goal. Best wishes. Effi (Xuan Daoji)

Perfect. I think somewhere in the middle of that explanation is where people get confused and become adamant in their positions, which bring about statements like; there is only hou tian or there is only xiantian or there is no hou tian or xian tian. A lot of it depends on how these practices are initiated and what methodology is applied. The route of transmutation is important there and it is not all the same, across all schools. Xian Tian Qi, Jing and Shen are not easily sensed, and althought they too must be collected back into one, to do so is not often a direct path and requires firstly combining the Hou Tian Qi, Jing and Shen. The less the acquired mind is involved in all this, the faster the process.

It's up now and will be updated in the coming weeks with an expansive article covering cultivation, tao yin shu and more.

Not so far fetched

I will make one page accessible within a week, with the aim of promoting the September 2014 event. I'll update it here when done.

Sounds like a reference to the yogic belief, that there are 72000 nadis, or energy channels in the subtle body ;major and minor ones.

Enlightenment cannot be reached without non-differentiation, yet with non-differentiation enlightenment cannot exist. Very true. Even our ideas of ideas must be released.

Hey Ryan, The core of Laozi's teaching is not about common sense. Common sense will yield common merits and common virtues and rewards. Perhaps you mean Kongfuzi? Laozi's teachings like many other Taoist texts can be very cryptic and many people can accidentally take his words literally when they are symbolic on many occasions and refer to the alchemical path. I belive that Laozi strived to convey a message that encouraged people to explore beyond the capacity of the common mind,the common thought and the common way of people; once again something closer to Kongfuzi. In regard to why Jesus Christ is being discussed in this thread or whatever else topic... I see no problem with it. After all there wasn't any Christianity until after Jesus,so his life falls within the achievements of any ordinary man seeking to be closer to the origin. Authentic spiritual Taoism is not a religious practice. It is a method, a way, whereby the expedient evolution of our consciousness, that is, us and who we really are,can be achieved. That is all we are doing. Evolving our consciousness through experience and interaction with others consciousness, be it of a low level or high level of development. Now,since all things have some degree of consciousness and certainly all humans,then I think it would be very anti-Taoism to argue that Jesus does not have a place here. Strip away the names,the schools,the methods. Take away Laozi and Chuangzu, take away everything and all you will have left is consciousness. Mine, yours, hers, his, its.. Authentic Taoism is about evolution and all things evolve.

I am what I am.