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Everything posted by effilang
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For more detailed information please visit the facebook event page: http://www.facebook.com/events/345257788909902/
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Tai Shang Men - Xiao Yao Pai - LONDON Event.
effilang replied to effilang's topic in Daoist Discussion
I'll post a summary once I get home home from London tomorrow. For now I will say the event was very successful. -
This was going to be a personal message to Drew, but I figured I'd get more feedback like this! Have you had any experience with internal cultivation methods that are classified as Yang to Yin rather than the conventional Yin to Yang process of transmutation? The standard nowadays seems to be a process of transformation beginning with the JING then transmuting to QI and then to SHEN, but what about methods that first start work with SHEN then build QI and then JING? The method we are most familiar with follows this pathway: JING to QI to SHEN, then you leap over TAIJI into WUJI. In this method we use the body to cultivate the energy (thrust) needed to propel the conscious SHEN out of the body and into the WUJI. However, long ago it seems there was a separation in the schools. One division came about the spiritual skills derived from meditation, well, through meditation, and when they reached the ultimate goal, they wrote down instruction manuals or transmitted their accumulated knowledge by word. But, there is another division, where Instead of passing on the information in word or written format, so that new disciples would have to start from JING to QI to SHEN on their own, the teachers rather used their established connection to the WUJI to directly connect their disciples' SHEN to the Wuji energy. In this second method, the disciples Bai Hui is opened immediately during the magical initiation carried out by the master and the energy begins to flow into the disciple from the WUJI, starting a SHEN > QI > JING process of transmutation, an inverse process to what we are normally used to! Disciples of such schools can directly connect to spirits and immortals existing in the WUJI for guidance and for energy. Further more. And this is quite interesting! It seems that practitioners of these schools, do not need to stop having sex. They can continue their sexual lives far into the practice of the school and manifestation of all manner of spiritual skill. The only other one I know that claims to do this is Mo Pai. When having a conversation with one practitioner of the system, a practitioner of over 20 years, he explained to me that JING is not semen. Ok, so I could agree with him on that, but it still didn't explain why us "normal" alchemy dudes had to meditate so much to cook the JING. And then it hit me! JING > QI > SHEN > QI > JING it is a closed loop system that works bidirectionally. All three of the treasures are actually the same one primordial energy but vibrating at different levels. So we make JING vibrate faster so that it begins to climb up the electromagnetic spectrum and produce QI, and then we vibrate QI higher up the EM spectrum to produce SHEN. (I know some people will say that's not possible! That you need to develop the ability of the body to process and digest and use energies of higher vibrations or you can cook your innards! But why? We have sunlight that we can't touch but can see and it interact with our body every day. We have radio waves of all sorts of frequencies travelling through our bodies from every which direction. Sure we haven't developed enough to seem them, but can you say they are not influencing our body's energetic function?) So you can manually increase the vibration of WOOD (JING) by rubbing two sticks together to create FIRE (QI) which emits heat and light (SHEN). There it is, JING QI SHEN. Conversely, you can use concentrated light to create fire to burn wood. SHEN, QI, JING! You can literally start the alchemical process from any of the treasures. You can start from JING or from QI or from SHEN. One will feed the other and they will nourish each other in the loop system. Which one we start to ACCUMULATE depends on whether we can find a resource for the respective energy. And what's the most common resource for us? - Of course JING! - So that's what we do, we accumulate that first, but with the reverse method, they get an infusion of SHEN by letting the master connect them directly to the WUJI through the Bai Hui so they can suck SHEN in. The process is completely reversed! Because of that, these guys don't have to stop having sex and rely on the JING to build the system but the SHEN instead, because that is where you start from! I suspect that this is how the Xiao Yao Pai system works, and once practitioners are initiated by the master, they immediately open their Bai Hui and connect to the Wuji to communicate with spirits and interact with SHEN level energetics. As you may know there will be an initiation event in London for Xiao Yao Pai next month. There will also be one in Virginia in the USA, you might be interested in checking it out if you live in the USA. I've heard some remarkable things from a number of different members practising the system. If you can make it to London by next month, check out the event page: https://www.facebook.com/events/345257788909902/ Please share your thoughts.
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Tai Shang Men - Xiao Yao Pai - LONDON Event.
effilang replied to effilang's topic in Daoist Discussion
3 days to : ) -
Someone asked: Where do the gurus get this idea that because we are temporal, we are not real? I answered based on what I have experienced to be true: That is a misunderstanding of the meaning and a misrepresentation of the truth by unskilled teachers. When the Buddha (and many before him) said that all is illusion, they did not mean that the world is not real. Rather, they were pointing out that the world simply IS and all phenomena exist absolutely. However, because we perceive them through the 6th consciousness we warp the true appearance of absolute reality before it even has the chance to reach our mind unobstructed. Just like a prism refracting one beam of light into the many colours of the rainbow. Thus we create a relative experience of reality subject to our own perception. You see, the goal is to perceive the beam of light in it's original state, before it is filtered through the prism and turns into Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo and Violet. The many different colours are pretty, but some of us have impaired vision. Some see less red and more green, others more blue and less yellow, some see more orange but less red and there are those that are completely blind. This is why we all have a relative experience of what IS and this is also why two people may look at the same thing, but see two entirely different objects all together. Each will defend the opinion of their perception adamantly, claiming power and superior understanding over the other, when fundamentally both observers are interpreting a relative illusion and not the true nature of the object in the first place. Sort of like the blind leading the blind. Only where both parties are extremely stubborn. If we do away with the prism, which is an analogy for the ego-mind and acquired discriminating intellect, then we allow ourselves to perceive that one unifying all encompassing beam of primal light before it is distorted by our senses. This is the truth we all aspire to. This is the absolute goal of spiritual cultivation. The realization of reality. This is all meditation aims to achieve. When we sit to meditate it is important to always employ the Taoist concept of Wu Wei - Effortless Action. You see, the acquired ego-mind is like the surface of a lake. It is always active with thoughts, ideas and concepts and because of this it's surface remains turbulent and in a constant and unceasing rippling. One ripple bounces of the edge and creates many more. It is an avalanche effect and if we do not assume control of our mind, we will get buried under the snow and freeze, until someone pulls us out. This is the nature of our acquired ego-mind. It loves constant motion and activity. When the 5 senses perceive something, they immediately stir the heart and ideas and emotions are created. Thus, when we smell something, pleasant aromas bring about the desire to satisfy our olfactory stimulation and all manner of fantasies begin to formulate in our mind. When we taste something with our tongue, the desire to savour the many tastes arises and brings about fantasies of food and drink. We we hear a lovely sound, the desire for melodious music arises and brings about fantasies to prompt you to further satisfy it. When we see something beautiful, the desire to possess it arises and we dream up fantasies about how to obtain it. When we feel something with our skin, the desire to experience forms arises and we create fantasies about pleasuring the body. Like a skilful thief, the 5 senses thus steal the stillness from your mind and heart and replace it with many thoughts. Making you a slave to your own mental illusions and ideas. The acquired ego-mind loves motion and activity while the original mind thrives in stillness. If we constantly succumb to satisfying our senses we create the environment for thoughts, fantasies and ideas to thrive and the ego-mind will remain in constant motion. This is the domain of the acquired-mind. When we sit down to meditate and let our thoughts gradually disappear, we create stillness and facilitate the activity of our Tao-mind. In Taoism we aim to subside the activity of the acquired ego-mind and through that stillness, allow the Tao-mind to naturally emerge. The mind of the Tao, our original nature, is like the bright moon in the sky. It is always there. It has always been there. It will always be there, shining brightly with the light of all creation. It simply wants a surface off which to project. You may ask, but why does the moon have to reflect on the surface of the lake? Why can't we just look directly at it, to realize it? Is this not quicker and easier? This is a good question! The reason it is hard to directly look at the moon and realize it's presence is because in the first place, we can't make out if it the image is of the moon or not! When the surface of the lake is so rippled because of the motions and activities of thoughts in the mind, it can't reflect anything. All you see is a scrambled image. So how can you look directly at the moon if you don't know it's the moon you should be looking at? This is how the ego-mind tricks you. By keeping you in constant activity, it effectively never allows you to become still enough and in so doing, successfully obscures reality from you. Like a skilled trickster, it keeps you trapped in it's illusion and soon, you begin to believe it is real The Tao must be approached subtly and by skilful means. Through doing without doing. Time after time, as we meditate, the ripples on the surface of the lake begin to subside. Gradually the bright moon of our original Tao-mind will begin to show itself on the surface of the lake. Thus, when the mind is still, the lake will be serene and the water will resemble a polished mirror. The more the lake stills, the more apparent the reflection of the moon becomes. Until one day the ego-mind is so still, that not one thought arises, and the surface of the lake becomes as smooth as fine silk. Not a sound, not a motion. Only complete stillness. This is the awakening to reality. Like a reflective mirror polished through countless hours of meditation you finally realize the absolute image of the moon. For the first time ever, you see all it's fine details. It no longer looks like a wavy and indiscernible blob of white paint morphing about in the rhythm of the ripples and you finally realize, it is the moon. Without a doubt, you know it is the moon you are observing, reflecting on the surface of this calm lake. This is emptiness. This is realization. The realization of the reflection of the moon within you. But this is not the final goal. Why? Because we are still looking only at the reflection of the moon and not the actual moon! But you know what? It no longer matters. Because once you know, you know. Because once you are liberated from the illusion of the ego-mind, the only thing that is left to do is to but gently raise the gaze of the eyes from the lake to the sky in order to reveal the original heavenly nature of your mind. To look upon the very moon itself! To leap out of the motion, into the stillness and from beyond the stillness to leap into the absolute reality of the Tao. This is the practice of meditation. If we do not apply Wu Wei and simply allow the ripples on the surface of the lake of the mind to subside on their own. If we attempt to use our hand to calm the surface, we will simply cause even more ripples. Even if you use one finger! You will still cause a ripple! Even if you use a goose-feather, you will still cause a ripple. All it takes is one ripple to distort the reflection. Therefore, there must be no desire to achieve. For the desire to achieve is in itself a desire and a product of the ego-mind. Thus, Wu Wei employs doing without doing. Desiring without desiring. Working without working. Meditating without meditating! Achieving without achieving! As you release your mind from the desire to act. The ripples will turn to nothing and the bright moon of your original mind will reveal itself in all it's glory! Good luck in your meditation practice! : )
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<Bane Voice> Theatricality and deception are powerful agents to the uninitiated... but we are initiated, aren't we Apech? Members of the Bums of Tao! </Bane Voice>
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Wu Wei is effortless doing. Because of this, some people think that you cannot do anything in Wu Wei, that it always has to do you, but that's not the case. Once the state of Wu Wei arises, it allows the extreme concentration of the mental faculties and allows you to perform much more effective feats of skill, whether it be projecting Qi, moving Qi, gathering Qi, mixing Qi etc. When you achieve Wu Wei you will notice that you are in a different state of mind. I'm not sure if it's a different mind or just a different state, but it will feel as though you are in a different state of mental function, one where there are no thoughts and desires. But this doesn't mean you can't use your WILL to manifest action while in Wu Wei. You can! What happens feels as though the clear mind separates from the intention and they become two independent things. Then your awareness sort of splits in two. On one hand you have a completely clear mind without any form of emotions, intentions or desires, and this is the Wu Wei state. Then on the other hand you have an active WILL (Yi) part of you that is free to direct your body and heart to perform external and internal things. It is quite wonderful. Sort of like you hook up to a an empty source of infinite stillness where nothing arises and at the same time you maintain connection to the part of you which can then utilize that clarity to execute actions in the Tai Ji. I don't know if this makes any sense at all. This is my experience of it. Wu Wei is a state which amplifies the potential for action by the fact that it is a state of non-birth or pre-cognitive-birth of the mind. Once in this state any action you manifest through the will can be executed at it's maximum power because it starts from the state of 0% and can then reach 100% as it manifests, thus realizing it's true potential. When we are not in a Wu Wei state and use our will to command reality, it is a weak manifestation of our will, because it is born from a state of post-cognitive-birth, where the mind is already manifested from stillness. I feel like a crazy person writing this, but it's a tricky one to explain... Wu Wei is a state of RAW potential. You see, our true mind already knows how to lead us back to the Wu Ji, but it is constantly interrupted by the activity of the acquired mind. Wu Wei is also there. It is like a mirror reflecting the Tao. The thoughts of the acquired mind are like the dust on the mirror obscuring the light from bouncing off the mirror and unto us. So, when we relax the body and mind, we wipe the dust off and as we remain in this state we establish a direct connection to the Wu Ji. But just like with a real mirror, if you let it alone for a while, dust will gather. So to strengthen the connection to the Wuji we must remain in a Wu Wei state regularly and eventually in an uninterrupted state by integrating Wu Wei through all the actions of our day. To use another analogy. In martial arts. The fighter who is constricted to a rigid form is only effective in reacting to certain types of attacks. But the fighter who stands in a neutral stance can react to everything. The first one can only manifest limited potential because his starting state is ALREADY a manifestation of 0%. So he may think it's 0% but its actually say 50%. But he doesn't know it. You see, he has been programmed to assume that his fighting stance is 0%, and everything springs forth form there. The second fighter who is in a neutral position, comes much closer to 0% potential in his state before defending or attacking. Thus, his moves can be quicker, more effective and he can react to anything. I would imagine that was the philosophy behind Bruce Lee's JKD. So Wu Wei is just like that. It brings the mind and body to 0% potential and when it's at zero, it makes ALL it's faculties available, both of the mind and of the body. Once this state of submission is presented to the original-mind, it will start transforming the body and mind to bring it closer to the Wu Ji, the very state that the Wu Wei concept reflects. That is why Wu Wei was taught. Because Wu Wei is the one thing we can achieve by way of our will, that brings us closer to what it actually represents; Wu Ji. It was very smart thinking... The original mind is like a skilful artist. It knows how to paint the masterpiece, but it won't start a new painting without first cleaning the studio. It won't do anything until it has all the brushes it needs. It won't mix any paint until it has all the paint it needs. The canvas must be there too. The windows must be open. The music playing. The incense burning etc. When all the faculties of the body and mind are made available through the attainment of Wu Wei, then the potential can return to 0% and the master artist can start painting the masterpiece of life, utilizing all the tools at his disposal. He will not start painting if there is no red or yellow or no fine brush. He needs all the tools to be available at once, for the formulas and tasks are complicated. That's sort of how it works. This is why RESISTANCE is such a big issue; resistance of the body or mind, because it forces you to move away from the 0% state and away from the Wu Wei. That resistance you feel, is the original-mind trying to do it's work, but you impeding it: Give me the brush I need to paint you, it says to you! And you answer, no! I want to count all the hairs first and smell the wood. And then original mind facepalms and calls you retarded. Often this sort of resistance during meditation, can cause pain and nausea. Leave your sponge-bob crayon drawing alone every day for a while, and lend the tools to the original-mind, and it will paint you the Mona Lisa. So, that is why so many schools advocate letting go, so that our wiser, original mind can put to use the tools of our body to their right use, in order to work it's transformation process. It knows, much better than our acquired post-natal Zhi Shen, what is best for us and how to connect us to the Wuji. After time, Wu Wei becomes a natural state of mind and whenever we do something, we can do it completely, absolutely, purely. But we CAN still do! Remember there is still the word action in the phrase "effortless action".
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We are all like the waters in this painting. Some of us are a small drizzle, others wide rivers and a few are but small drops here and there, trickling off the leaves in search of the ocean. But we are all water, and sooner or later we shall all lead back into the great sea of our original nature.
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I have noticed that people tend to find a truth that agrees with them and then guard it furiously. The thing is that the a truth is like an onion. You peel one skin off and there is another one waiting for you. The more you peel the stronger the smell of that truth becomes. Soon it will be so strong that it will make you weep. Often the meaning of one peel can be completely different from it's prior, yet it is still the same truth, just a different depth at a different level of awareness. Because of this many of us on here often end up arguing about what seems to be different things, but are actually the same, only at different levels of understanding. I've been taught to always assume that there is more to "it" than there seems. It being anything you believe in. This will help avoid attachment by the realization that your current state of understanding is not the highest and thus more work is required and much less celebration, if any at all. The best you can do thus is to acknowledge your attainments, but to do so in a manner which neglects their relative significance. The ripe rice plant bows it's head low. We must emulate it in order to facilitate the conditions required to keep our cup empty and the Tao pouring in without cessation.
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Thank you for your kind words.
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What a nice guy you are.
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No Aaron, I'm not calling you a liar. I am just pointing out that after 20 years of what you claim to be effective meditation, if you still claim you cannot heal the sick, clothe the poor and feed the hungry through the fruits of your meditation, then well... I don't know. Maybe you meditated once a month for 20 years...
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Those Buddhists, with their minds so unclear. Whatever shall we do with them...
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Actually... it accomplishes all of the above. But you've made it clear by the parable you used earlier, that meditation to you is just empty sitting. And I agree. Through that type of "meditation" you will not achieve any of the above. How do I know you practised empty sitting? Because you did it for 20 years and just made the statement above... Do it properly though and you'll see for yourself how you will heal the sick, clothe the naked and feed the hungry.
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I guess in your philosophical books it doesn't explain that after enough meditation, you come to the realization that meditation is not a state of body but a state of mind and that it can be carried out while walking, sitting, laying down and even sleeping. If you had no body, you could still meditate. Once again, you are just showing how you hold on to the surface and avoid the essence. Don't confuse meditation with the act of sitting...
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I think he means that It was I whom used the word Ego in my OP. But this is the point I've made already, several times. Taoism is not a rigid thing. It's a flowing evolving natural mass of scientific knowledge that grows every time new data is found through diligent investigation of the internal, external, micro and macro environments of our different dimensions. The Daozang is said to consist of over 1000 texts alone. This too is Taoism, even though after the time of LT and CT. Should we discount all the wisdom from there too? Lao Tze or Chuang Tzu may not have used the word "ego", but if you had the chance to sit down at a table with them today and explained to them the modern definition of the word ego, they would sure as hell know exactly what you were talking about. So once again. Stop getting so wrapped up in superficialities and concentrate on the essence.
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They are emerged. Some of them just don't like popularity : )
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Too much philosophy and not enough spirituality... Hopefully you are spending that free time in meditation : /
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Let me expand on this. Philosophical Taoism You can study 10,000 books and still not be 1 step closer to realizing the Tao. Religious Taoism You can pray and light incense all you want and still not be 1 step closer to realizing the Tao. Spiritual Taoism But if you can awaken yourself to reality then you will intrinsically understand the essence of both Religion and Philosophy.
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There is a big difference between Spiritual Taoism, Religious Taoism and Philosophical Taoism.
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Semantics. You will get "there" through Wu Wei! Awakening to reality requires action and inaction both. It is false to say that no action is required and it is equally false to say that only action is required, but it is also equally false to say that only inaction is required. The application of each depends on the phase of cultivation. There are different firing times. Within the Tai Ji there is action and inaction. If we are pulled-by both sides constantly we will remain within the Tai Ji. To leap out of it and into the Wuji we must overcome both wilful inaction and action all together. In other words, although it is inaction and stillness we are trying to achieve, nothingness. It cannot be achieved through the function of the Zhi Shen or acquired mind. That is why we employ Wu Wei. It is the EFFORTLESS attainment of the state of inaction that brings forth emptiness, and once we become empty, we begin to reflect the emptiness of the Wuji and by doing so connect to it to realize it and us.
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There are too many things to mention that are discovered about the 3 bodies and the Tao which are not mentioned either by Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu. Does that make them less of a reality? Do you really think Lao Tzu and Chuang Tzu who teach that the Tao cannot be named or described, actually managed to name it and describe it in all it's ways to you through their texts? So much so that you can read their texts and satiate yourself with the idea that there is nothing more to learn or discover? And you say you practice Taoism? Interesting. The great masters before us have taught us the instructions and they have given us the map. When we look at the map we can see the path drawn out and how it turns left and right. But the map will never describe to you the beauty of the mountains, the sound of the waterfall, the sight of the sunset and all the manifestations of the Tao. You will not hear the birds song or taste the sweet fruits by reading the map alone. These are things that you experience while you embody the instructions passed down to us by great practitioners such as Chuang Tzu and Lao Tzu. But this you can only experience through your own investigation. These details a many. A thousand! They are not all included in their texts. I gather those two fine gentlemen were more interested in showing you how to get there than spending their team telling you about how cool it is while you're getting there.
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Just because something was discussed, Apech, does not make it a "fact." Otherwise we would all transform into immortals after reading the TTC. And just because an abbot of the Zhen Yi Pai southern school of spiritual Taoism also claims there is an acquired mind doesn't make it a fact either. You know what makes it a fact? - Your own personal verification of the absolute truth. Having said that, here is what the said Taoist abbot thinks: So what now? I pulled some texts. Does that mean you're going to believe in the acquired mind as a Taoist concept now? All of a sudden your views no longer matter, because someone else with greater authority claims otherwise? Is that how it works? Does it even matter if it's a Taoist concept? Will it help you come closer to realizing the Tao by establishing it's origin and attribution? I don't care if I found a scripture stuffed up a pigs butt. I will take it out, clean it, read it and put its instructions to work and if I find them to be accurate in the results they have produced I will consider them true. For one to say that there is no acquired ego-mind in Taoism or that it is not a Taoist concept, It simply means they have not realized it yet. There are many concepts and truths which you will come across while studying Taoism, that are not described in Taoist doctrine, but can be found in the doctrines of other spiritual disciplines and schools. Does that then make them false and non-Taoist, even though it is through the practice and application of the very "authentic" Taoist guidelines that you have manifested their realization? If I discover a new chemical element in our atmosphere, does that make it a false discovery simply because it was unknown till now? Can I still add it to the periodic table and call it an element of the periodic table or is it unworthy or do I have to make up a brand new table? Will it make any difference to the existence of the said element whether it is in the old table or the new table? The energy body is the energy body. The function is the same across humans. The physical body is the physical body. The function is the same across humans. The spirit body is the spirit body. The function is the same across humans. Stop drowning in discrimination. The Tao is not set in stone. It is nature manifest. Constantly flowing, constantly transforming. If you hold on to it, it will slip your grasp. If you try to give it a name it will never answer to you. If you try to own it, it will never be yours. The more you look for it the harder it is to find. Please for the love of all things good. Stop with dogmas and ideas and dedicate every ounce of your being to INVESTIGATION. This is the ROOT of Spiritual Taoism. Only through investigation can we reach the absolute. Until then, everything you know and believe, no matter how strongly is just a relative opinion. Spiritual cultivation is nothing more but the investigation and discovery of the Tao.