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Everything posted by effilang
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My OP represents very simple Taoist concepts: 1. Wu Wei during meditation. 2. Achieving stillness of heart-mind by understanding the influence of the the 5 senses on the mind. 3. Encouraging continuous investigation and not holding on to achievements. 4. Attaining a state of stillness where by the Tao can be experienced personally and not as a product of dogmas. 5. Understanding that we are not separate from the Tao, but that we are the Tao and have not awakened to that reality. The 5 senses exist in Buddhism as well as in Taoism. You'd be surprised to find out they exist in most humans too... The acquired ego-mind exists in Taoism as well as Zhi Shen. You'd be surprised to find out that too exists in most humans... Achieving stillness of mind through Wu Wei is paramount to establishing a connection to the Wuji. I pity those of you who are here squabbling over titles and names, for you are using the length of your pinky finger to measure the depth of the ocean and missing the moon for the finger. Anyone who denies these are Taoist concepts, denies these are Taoist concepts. While you are denying, I will meditate.
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You really got ahead of yourself there, Aaron. I am truly sorry that you do not see the Taoism in my original post. Peace.
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God forbid.
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Every one of Marblehead's posts accounts for one polish of his Marble Head. It is now after many posts and much work, perfectly polished. It can be polished no more. The projection of the great Tao touches upon his Marble Head and reflects upon us all that ever was, is and ever will be. He is a living emanation of the luminous light of the eternal Tao. And as the great light so bounces off his perfectly polished marble head. So all those who are struck by its transforming rays must bow forth in the majesty of his splendour. We must rejoice in his well earned title as Steward of the Tao : )
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Aaron, I appreciate that you've taken the time to "qualify" my thoughts, but I couldn't care less about what you've posted. I'm not interested in what people want to call it, so long as it helps them practice and in doing so leads them to their own experience of my...well experience. Honestly, the last thing I expected was for someone to reply to the thread in address of such superficiality. But I suppose you did it with good intentions. I'm afraid I do not see them at all, but I am not saying they are bad either. Maybe I am just blind to your wisdom. I just do not see the benefit of it to anyone else, but yourself. I've never been interested in what people call something, but rather what that thing achieves. If you removed every mention of the word Taoism, Taoist or Buddhism, Buddhist from the context of my post, it would still be an effective post. This is the essence of my learning and teaching. Having said that, It seems people are sensitive to these titles and I hadn't considered It. I apologize in advance If I have offended anyone's beliefs by using any names inappropriately. I would advise everyone however to remember that provocation is the root of all wisdom. If something I have said has provoked you. Perhaps you should take the opportunity to ask yourselves why? I will do the same.
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But it doesn't mean it's not either
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This may be due to my limited understanding of things, but IME I have yet to come across a science of the mind that has elaborated the workings of the mind in a greater depth than that of Buddhism. Yet, I don't see any complicated words there. In fact, science nowadays, including psychology and psychoanalysis hardly even scratches the surface of Buddhist literature on the functions of the mind. I really think if one understands it, they can explain it plainly. Because if they can't, then what good is their understanding if it remains an exclusive privilege to the learned. It is the unlearned that need the learning, for they are most lost. The learned can find their way : ) It probably explains why psychologists with all their technical lingo have one of the highest rates of suicide. tee hee : )
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I am humbled Zero! I am just a little wiggly worm, wiggling a modest little wiggle, trying to get to the centre of the apple before I get eaten! Wiggle wiggle wiggle : )
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I can't agree with you more Rene. Things need to be broken DOWN! When you understand something you can break it down. If you can't you don't understand it. Fancy words will only confuse people. Cat, thanks! I'll check it out now
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Q: My issue with the word 'illusion' stems from it having been given the connotation of 'fake' when the word 'ludre', from which the word came, had the connotation of 'play' (As did 'maya') I prefer the term 'Allusion' as in 'a pointing towards a deeper truth'. My answer: That's just it though. The function of the acquired ego-mind is not to point to the truth, but to keep you comfortably settled within the illusion and trick you into thinking it is the truth. It has no intention of leading you to the truth, for in doing so it advocates it's own annihilation. It cannot do this, because it is a self preserving matrix. Illusion, because like with a dexterous magician, there IS something to see (the truth), but so skilled is he that they make us see something else entirely and obscure the truth from us. That it's all just a trick : ) I agree with you that the meaning of illusion is misunderstood. But as with the very task we are aiming to achieve through questioning reality to come to the acknowledgement of illusion, further investigation is required to realize the true meaning of that illusion. Beyond the surface and into the depth.
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Hello Bums and Bumettes, I wanted to start a cute little thread where we could just post interesting or useful quotes from various Taoist and Buddhist literature. I think discussion will naturally arise, and if it does, please keep it to a minimum or transfer the quote for discussion to an independent thread where it can be discussed in detail without derailing the thread. It would be nice for folks to be able to visit this thread and just read quotes one after the other, without distracting commentary. Please use the QUOTE mechanic so we can keep it tidy : ) And If you know the page and name of the book, include it. I'll go first: Always wait for someone else to post so you can post again : ) You're next!
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Yees! Been waiting for this one Lin! Thanks buddy!
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Is that a Buddhist belief? To Taoists believe in reincarnating as an animal?
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Have you ever wondered about how Buddhist hear "oms" and see Buddhas while Taoists see Taiji symbols and Taoist Immortals? What about Christians seeing Jesus during meditation experiences? Do you think that it is possible that the very things we believe and practice such as direction of energy currents, energy interactions, processes, deconversions, transmutations etc. may all be subject to the same state of illusory reality, biased by the very things we study? How come Taoists don't experience Ida and Pingala in the same way the Buddhists do? Is it possible that many of the things during practice happen because this is the reality we have created? Can a lot of these interactions simply be mental illusion? All just form realm illusions? I wonder, how objective are we really in our experiences or is everything we feel just what we have programmed ourselves to expect will happen? How much of what we perceive to happen during practice is of absolute reality and how much is a formulation of the 6th consciousness?
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I agree Drew that it is not morality. It is definitely psychophysiological action. The mere thought of sex or sexual things immediately starts that de-conversion process from the UDT down the spine. You can feel it! That is why we must be diligent to guard against such thoughts in order to preserve the energy and keep it pure. However when it comes to the analogy of the wheel, I would say that spinning the outside of the wheel would be Shen creating Jing. It is of less effort. While spinning the inside would be Jing converting to Qi and then to Shen or Jing to Shen directly if that is even possible BUT, you're right. To get a little SHEN without having first gone through JING - QI - SHEN transformation is difficult, unless you have a direct source of SHEN nourishment to tap in to ie: very effective emptiness meditation, entering the wuji, magical transmission from a master etc. That was a really good post Drew. One of your best!
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Drew, the Kundalini energy IMO is Yuan Qi and not Yang Qi.
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Thanks Albert : ) As most of you know I am a practitioner who is an avid disciple of the conventional JING QI SHEN route of transformation, so I am really looking forward to experiencing the method by which the essence is extracted from the JING without having to cook it. To illustrate my thinking, please consider the following: JING is not semen, but the essence of semen contributes to the complex of JING energies. The JING complex includes other energies originating from places like the Kidneys, Testicles, Prostate, Bladder, Liver etc. You may have strong sexual JING, but you may have a failing Liver or a failing Kidney and thus be in bad health. Having JING is the condition of being in general health and maintaining a system whose organs are in balance and functioning optimally. Everything is vibration. The way we and things within and without us vibrate defines how are classified and how we classify. When we gather JING in the LDT it is akin to dropping grains of rice and drops of water, one at a time, into an empty pot. When there is enough rice and water to cook in the pot, we place the mind mind/heart under the pot. The water is a necessary ingredient, because without the water we cannot extract the essence from the coarse JING. The fire of the mind/heart is a necessary ingredient because without the fire we cannot begin to heat the JING to a boil. If we perform strenuous physical activity that tolls the bodys' organs and energy reserves, then we deplete JING. By doing this we continuously scoop out some of the rice water and never get what we need to meet the requirements of this recipe. This is body celibacy. It does not just mean celibacy of the sexual activity, but celibacy of physical activity in order to maintain optimal energetic capacity in all areas, not just testosterone. If anyone has ever been on a long term water fast, you'll be familiar with the profound effects of conserving ones energy. This type of body celibacy conserves and compounds JING, but it does not necessarily refine it into QI, because energy continues to leak out of the system from other outlets preventing the JING from accumulating to max capacity. There is a saying. When the body is still it produces JING, when the breath is still it produces QI and when the mind is still it produces SHEN. One can accumulate JING, but still deplete QI. One can accumulate QI, but still deplete SHEN. And we must not forget that san bao interact with each other JING QI SHEN and SHEN QI JING. One nourishes the other, but one can also deplete the other since they are in a constant process of transmutation. One can sit still and be celibate of the body and thus accumulate JING, but can deplete QI through incorrect breathing or excessive talking. If the QI is depleted the JING and SHEN will support it and thus the JING and SHEN will also be lost. Please bear in mind that when I use the word LOST, I do not mean that capacity drops from 100 to 0, but rather a percentage is transmuted up or down the vibrational ladder in order to support the other energy and achieve balance in the body again. This means, you can still lose energy regularly, but progress, albeit slower. If JING becomes too weak, it cannot support the QI and the SHEN will disperse causing death. One can also accumulate QI faster through Qigong practices, without even being celibate, one can do so. You can have sex and practice Qigong, and you will have more QI, but the QI will also transmute downwards to support the JING and thus you will deplete the accumulated QI in order to bring the system to balance. One can absorb high vibrational energies to nourish the SHEN, yet deplete the QI and the JING with other activities and thus force the SHEN to transmute down to support them. In other words, what I'm trying to say is that a disciple with the right method, can begin and support the alchemical process from either JING or QI or SHEN. It's a delicate balancing act. The most effective practice will be that which conserves energy on all three of the planes simultaneously for maximum efficacy. You don't necessarily have to start from JING or from SHEN or from QI specifically. Each will support the other and vice-versa. Here is a little diagram on the interrelationship of the San Bao: So, the pot is filled with rice and water, what now? This RIGHT HERE, is the point at which a lot of conflict arises with different schools. If you keep filling the pot with rice, one grain at a time and with water one drop at a time, soon you will just get raw rice and water spilling up and out the pot and unto the stove and you'll make a mess. Ha, does that remind you of anything? Maybe? What's normally messy, watery and white? That's right, man juice! Millions of future babies! Keep accumulating JING and sooner or later the energy complex will reach the maximum capacity of the pot and when you go to sleep one night, you will wake up with wet pants in the morning : ) The crude, unrefined physical form of the rice and the water can only be contained so much until it starts looking for the point of least resistance to exit from. Normally that is the penis and the anus. This reminds me of a time when I was having a debate with a friend of mine whose religious practice claimed that you must not have sex for around 90 days, after which when you go to sleep, God (of all things) will come to you at night and grant you the bliss of orgasm while you sleep. A gift from God he said. SMH! All I could think to myself as a Taoist was... man.. what a waste haha. I tried to make him understand that this is a crucial phase during which he needs to practice the proper meditation methods to help refine the accumulated JING energy in order to transmute it to QI, but he screamed BLASPHEMY. GOD he said, the wet dream is GODS gift! How dare I even entertain the idea of interrupting the divine process of God coming to your bed at night and giving you a helping hand? God after all is a loving God is he not? lol : ) Fair enough. I let it be as there was too much resistance. THIS PHASE, really is crucial, because this is where the celibacy of the body reaches its peak. The JING reaches capacity. The pot is full of raw rice and water. But now we must intensify another aspect of the practice in order to bring this alchemical process to it's next step of progression. What is that? MIND celibacy. (You like that one do you Drew ) Mind celibacy is crucial. The heart mind is the element FIRE. The spirit resides in the heart and manifests through the eyes. This is why when the eyes attach to beautiful things, the heart is stirred, the spirit attaches to the desire of the visual formation and leaks out of the eyes. This is one way to deplete SHEN energy. Ok, Ok. But what does this have to do with the JING in the Lower Dan Tien that is about spill over because of the tiny pot we have down there? Well... This is what happens. The Qi follows the Mind and the heart mind is FIRE. At this time we have one imperative goal. Stop the rice and water in the pot from overflowing and making a mess. How? BY COOKING THE RICE and changing its property! Ok. So we have rice and water in a pot. What do we do now? Well, what do you normally do to make a deliciously yummy bowl of rice? - You turn the stove on and apply FIRE. Have a look at this image: Can you see the JING in the pot? It's just staying there, like our rice and water, just filling up, soon to spill over. Now, look at the heart. Can you see the fire? THAT's what we need to get our RICE and Water cooked! But, how do we get that fire down under the pot, it seems like quite a distance? Remember what I said before? - The FIRE of the spirit resides in the Heart, but manifests through the two eyes!!! Where the eyes go the fire of the heart follows and passions arise. We see something sexy and our heart beats, we see something beautiful and it skips a beat. When the eyes attach, the heart moves and the passions stir, giving birth to desire and emotions. The KEY are the EYES. That is how we get the FIRE to sit below the pot so we can get cooking! Ok, so what do we do that? Simple! Relax the eyes, look down gently with both your intention and your eyes, right under the pot, and the gaze will lead the FIRE from the heart under the pot. VOILA! You now have LI under KAN. Whats so magical bout this? It's important because, once the FIRE starts to heat the pot the WATER will begin to boil, once it boils the rice transformed and it's essence is extracted and carried up into the steam. As long as the FIRE of the heart/mind is kept under the Lower Dan Tien, the WATER will boil and the JING will not SPILL. THIS, is the crucial effect of MIND CELIBACY. Without restraining the mind, you cannot guide the FIRE of the heart, as Spirit will constantly leak out of the eyes to chase worldly images. Without Mind Celibacy, the JING will overflow and sooner or later you will make a mess. The FIRE is needed to cook the WATER and make it EVAPORATE to prevent the ingredients from spilling out of the pot. Kan needs Li to produce Qi. It is as simple as that. No Fire = Spilled JING and a waste of time. Fire = Transmuted JING into QI The process by which the fire heats the water and the water boils and transforms into STEAM or Yang QI is the process of TRANSMUTATION. JING transmutates to QI and QI transmutates to SHEN and vice versa. So what happens to the Steam we have just created? Well. It too will seek to find an outlet for release. If you do apply the mind incorrectly at this stage, the hot steam can shoot through the wrong meridians in the leg, through the Hui Yin or out of the Penis or out of the Anus or up the Central Channel or Up the Ren Mai or Up the Du Mai. So what must you do? This is debatable. You can often not do anything and the Steam will find the correct path on it's own or you can gently guide it along the right path. How do we know when the water is boiled and ready to be moved? Well, you will experience heat in the Lower Dan Tien, you will then afterwards also experience Vibration and you will then experience the sensation of movement in the LDT. Once you feel that property of movement in the LDT after the vibration occurs this means the cooked JING has began to steam up and needs to rise. At this point, you must gently use the mind to direct it down to the Hui Yin followed by the tip of the Tail bone where it can pass through the first gate and proceed up the Fire path of the Microcosmic orbit along and up the DU Meridian of the spinal chord. This is the first phase of the JING QI SHEN transformation process. What is really important here is to realize that the essence of the JING can be extracted by other methods OTHER than cooking it with FIRE in the Lower Dan Tien. It is extraction we are looking for regardless of the process. I would like to submit the theory that it may be possible to extract the essence from the JING by other methods, different than what we are used to. If we do not eat or drink or breathe our body and organs will become weak and our JING will become weakened and we will die. In other words we need YIN nourishment to support our organs in order to produce, accumulate and transmute JING along the conventional JING > QI > SHEN route. And once we have enough JING we need to use mind celibacy to transmute that JING to QI. Now.. Look at the picture again. Can you see how the arrow goes up the back, but down the front as well? Remember how I said you can start the process from any of the three treasures? Some systems rather than using Yin nourishment, absorb higher vibrational Yang nourishment from the moon, sun, stars, planets or other sources of energy which vibrate faster than JING and even QI. This type of energy nourishes and builds the SHEN, just like eating food, drinking water or breathing nourishes the JING, but there is no COOKING process required here as the energy being accumulated is already of a high vibration and does not require to move up any higher at this point. We don't have to work to build up the JING we simply let the SHEN energy naturally transmute down into QI and then into JING in the REVERSE order of transmutation. Building JING to transmute it into QI and SHEN is like picking up a rock and using physical force to throw it up into the sky. It requires more Gong. Building JING out of QI derived from SHEN, is like dropping the rock from a roof top, no force is required, you needn't throw it down. You simply let go and gravity will do the rest of the work. Jumping requires force, Falling requires that you let go. Everything that comes from the heavens and above can reach the earth without any effort. While everything on earth takes effort to reach above and into the heavens. (Heavens from a cosmological stand point not religious or spiritual) I have studied and practised the conventional method of transmutation from JING to QI to SHEN for a long time. In fact, to me it is blasphemous for someone to claim anything otherwise. Yet, how can I call myself a Taoist if I don't investigate these claims? I've received several different viewpoints that have challenged my beliefs and I'm eager to investigate them and looking forward to sharing my finds here after I put the Xiao Yao Pai system to practice.
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You are everything I expected. Thank you.
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deci belle, What is the point of trying to describe that which is incapable of description to people who are trying to understand the indescribable through a mind that is still only capable of understanding through description? Are you aiming to provoke thought, induce awareness or are you just entertaining yourself with writing about truths that can only be be understood through personal experience in the first place? Perhaps I am missing your point with this thread. I do know that you are not the first to speak of these matters, but you are in my humble experience one of the least capable of communicating them in an understandable format despite your vocabulary. I don't think that is your fault at all. You are simply tackling subjects which are far beyond the descriptive potential of words and using too many words, when you should be using less. You cannot explain with 10,000 words that which takes only 1 or 10 and even if you did, it would still equal ZERO in comparison to the actual experience. There is a reason why simplicity is the most predominant trait in successful spiritual doctrines... If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough. If Buddha spoke like you do, to his students... well... I don't think Buddhism would be very popular. I do not in anyway deny that you are where you are and have achieved what you have achieved. I do not accept it either. Neither is for me to do. It is what it is and the potential is unlimited. But... boy... you do really like to beat around the bush. I really appreciate what you are doing, but is it really a feasible endeavour or is this just entertainment? : )
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Nevermind temporary SHEN transmission! What if you are directly and permanently connected to a high vibrational energy outlet? What if your Bai Hui can be opened immediately to absorb high vibrations of energy from the SUN, MOON, STARS, PLANETS and the WUJI directly? - In theory, instead of accumulating JING through food and air (YIN nourishment), to accumulate SHEN through Yang nourishment and build SHEN directly?! What say ye!
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Precisely! A higher vibration (SHEN) has less resistance when moving through denser objects, in the same way that a radio wave can deliver a message and effortlessly move through a brick wall! So if you start with SHEN you can complete the alchemical process faster as the transmutation is quicker. But if we take JING as a start, it takes a lot more physical effort to contain and transmute the dense material to a finer material!
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