effilang

If the fire is not kept steadily under the pot while the water pours in, then water does not boil and the yang vapor does not rise. Instead the excess cold yin water overflows into the viscera and can cause disbalance. This is why celibacy with wrong thought can be counterproductive.

I keep reading that only systems like Mo Pai train the practitioner to merge Yin and Yang, or Yin Yang Gong, whereas traditional Taoist alchemical practice does not. This however is false. The basis of immortality even with the traditional Taoist alchemy is that of merging Yang with Yin so that when the body dies the consciousness and eternal soul leave together. One can then manifest Into whatever physical form they wish, even their prior body. The mco is probably the safest path to alchemical work and immortality than any of us could ever pursue. It is not just about compressing qi ad infinitum, because along the way there are so many manifestations and processes that take place, both safe and dangerous, that if all u have in ur head is compression you will be in serious trouble. To this extent I agree with what Merciless says. After a certain level if one does not have the instructions memorized, he must project to learn them from a higher being. I disagree with him however in saying that you must alter the path of nature. In fact you need only reverse it.

http://www.daoistmagic.com/info.php?i=3826 http://texts.00.gs/Daoist_Magical_Transformation_Skills,_I.htm http://www.daoistmagic.com/info.php?i=2191

You guys need to read Chinese Medical Qigong Theory by Jerry A. Johnson. All this stuff is explained in there in over 1000 pages and in enough detail to make your head explode.

I get this too, but not only with standing. Eyes wide open and everything goes black. If you let it be you'll sink deeper and deeper into that darkness, but only if you don't pay attention to it being there. The instant you think about it, it disappears.

Hi bum cheeks and bum chickies, I visited a Buddhist monastery in the UK today with the intention of assessing what they have to offer and a monastic life. Everything in regard to the food and accommodation is way beyond my expectations and to be quite frank, the amenities are almost hotel like. When I initially entered the Abbots room, he gazed at my eyes unflinchingly from my opening the door to sitting down on the chair. I felt like he looked into my soul and his eyes were very magnetizing, but at the same time very calming. The two chairs, mine and his, we're positioned facing each other about less than a meter apart and at first I felt a little uncomfortable to be in that situation immediately with someone I didn't know as it was a ery open and there was no desk or other barrier between us. Long story short. Before I realised I was even thinking that my heart completely opened and I sat front facing him legs un crossed with my palms down on my knees. He was a great guy and we spoke and chatted about different topics on life. He didn't ask me any questions now that I think about it, but I think through the conversation he got to know me and why I was there in the first place. Anyhow. He invited me for dinner with the other monks and nuns and gave me brand new book to read, which I would otherwise have had to buy myself, so that was very nice. I remember sitting down on a cushion for dinner against 3 other monks and nuns and looking down at the plate I saw a piece of pie with some yoghurt on it in a small tea cup sized plate, and I thought to myself how very nice, seems just sufficient. Little did I know that was only desert and soon after one of the other monks came in with a big plate of food. To be quite honest I was full before I finished it, but didn't want to be rude : D Anyway these are all just details of my experience. This is my real question. I'm a Tao bum at heart, mind, practice and scripture. The mind seal classic, Taoist yoga alchemy and immortality and secret of the golden flower are like my Bibles. They are one of the few works I've found that have such a thorough description (among others) of the alchemical process from a to z, starting with the lower or upper Dan tien and opening the waterwheel to further alchemical work leading to the birth of the eternal soul. It's a to z and in between you have the Dos and don't. These books are gold to me, if I was on a desert island alone, that's what I'd take. My point..... Taoism emphasizes dual cultivation and strives for immortality of the soul, where it can overcome samsara and then you can manifest into whatever physical shape you like, take your personality with you by fusing eternal life and true nature and living as long as heaven an earth, psychic powers and all that jazz. The more I read into Buddhism the less I see about how the soul and body play out under the achievement of permanent nirvana... Does the body dies? Is it forced to dematerialize? Is the nirvana they speak of by achieving the cessation of craving and the avoidance of samsara the immortality of the eternal soul through the birth of the embryo that Taoist speak of? It seems to me (with my limited knowledge of buddhism) that the nirvana is a mental state only? Where are the processes that teach you how to cultivate San bao? Surely if one eradicates cravings the shen will build the qi and the qi will in turn build the jing and the jing will in turn overflow if not lead up the du mai? Do Buddhists just let all these alchemical processes take their course naturally? If so why then are the Taoist so particular about so many details? Starting the fast fire, stopping the fast fire, where to lead qi, where and at what point and for how long to concentrate on at certain points, what to do during and after manifestations of yang shen. Kan and Li. Bathing, washing etc etc etc. I have heard of instances where the heart can be stopped by keeping the intention on the accupoint opposite the heart on the governor channel. I've read of knee problems and paralysis because of inappropriately lead yang chi into the leg meridians through the hui yin. It seems these are all very valid safety and practical pieces of instruction, so how does Buddhism deal with all of this? Is the Buddhist nirvana and triumph over samsara the same as Taoist immortality achieved through the waterwheel and merging of the two back to one and the one back to nothing? Am I better of tattooing these Taoist texts on my ass before I commit to the Buddhist monastery so I can read my instructions at night from the mirror? I have learned a lot from Taoism and appreciate the depth with which Buddhism addresses the workings of the mind and reality as it is. But I don't want to get the short end of the stick. To be clear I'm going to a monastery because I want to pursue immortality through alchemical practice. What's the point otherwise? I'd go on a holiday on a tropical island if not. Why was Buddha constantly having back aches when Taoist transform their bodies into moldable jello and have tendons and bones as flexible as rubber? Can I achieve by practicing the complete Buddhist path the same results as that of traditional Taoist alchemy of the three treasures and how does Buddhism, like Taoist, offer me the comfort that I will know what efforts to activate and cease during the arising of all these complicated energetic alchemical interactions. In short what is the Buddhist equivalent of Taoist yoga alchemy and immortality? sorry for any typos in advance. Typing from mobile.

With traditional meditation the fullness of the dan tien with yang qi before any compression with rab (reverse abdominal breathing) can be ascertained by heat and vibration after which it naturally makes its way up the spine. With your method how do you determine the fullness or sufficiency of yang qi in order to know when the right time is to mix? What happens if you mix when there is not enough yang qi and what happens when you mix when there is? In other words what are the signposts that mark the success of each level of work so one knows they are doing it right?

Gouki-San, when you move the dan tien to the hui yin to mix do you push it down with rab or nab?

So after you tea bag the whole dan tien to the hui yin and the tan tien comes back to its place, do you just condense it then tea bags it again after more time? Sort of like bathing the dan tien in the hui yin? Is it with everyone of these repetitions that the energy vibration increases? This is a new theory of practice to me which is different from the classical meditation. Can you talk more about the process of severing the chords binding the tan tien so you can move it to the hui yin?

How do these "direct" methods of yin-yang gong differ from alchemical meditation in the pursuit of immortality through the micro cosmic and macro cosmic methods based on san bao theory? The very sme method depicted in all the classics and in books like secret of the golden flower and Taoist yoga, the neijing tu, hui ming ching etc etc? What of spiritual immortality, the embryo, merging with the tao. To these methods by mo pai and Garry address these pursuits or are they only catering to metaphysical powers geared towards fajing, fashen and healing applications? My question is, what is the point of these systems if you will lose all this after you die, or is there a spiritual aspect to them that nobody is talking about on here.... In the initial stages both methods start with plunging fire into water to create vapor. Yet one circulates the yang qi down from the dan tien to the perineum, up the three gates to the bai hui and then down the ren mai and back to/between cv6 and ming men, while the other advocates not just directing some of the quantity of the hot qi from the dan tien into the waterwheel, but actually completely disconnecting the tan tien and sort of "tea bagging" it between the hui yin and the tailbone to completely fuse all the yang chi with the yin before brining the dipped Dan tien back up to its place.? And all these nadis that are severed, 6 I believe they were, to release the tan tien, how does this change the tan tien, because it seems like a very permanent thing to sever the tan tien. Could this be the underlying differentiation between quick and slow result in both methods : that one simply circulates a part of the yang qi through the waterwheel for bathing and washing and rinsing, while the other actually takes the whole Dan tien at once?

I've read in the Chinese medical qigong theory by Jerry alan Johnson that the prenatal jing, qi and shen are strengthened directly by strengthening and purifying their postnatal equivalents, whereas the post natal essence, vitality and spirit strengthen each other. So you need to strengthen postnatal shen to strengthen pn. Qi and pn. Qi to strengthen pn. Jing or vice versa depending on the meditation you practice.

You come across as a desperate girl asking that hahaha. On topic. Thanx to a kind bum, I've found all the answers to the questions I had posed in this thread in a more detailed translation of the hui ming ching. Thanks for everyone's contributions.

Will do.

They have a big library, I'm sure to be very warm

No, I don't think it works from reading books. It works from work and books are a great way to learn how to do the work.

From what I understand, postnatal shen does not support postnatal jing directly, but if the shen is in abundance it will increase chi and when the chi is in abundance it will increase postnatal jing. And on a different layer the postnatal shen nourishes the prenatal shen and the postnatal qi the the prenatal qi and the postnatal jing the prenatal jing. So that's starting from the ldt. Placing the fire of the heart/mind below the cauldron filled with water and to set it to boil through air/breathing in order to generate vapor/qi that rises up the du mai or exists through the genital gate. If In this way the water element of the kidneys stop draining down/out and rises and the fire element of the heart/mind stops rising is to the head to create thoughts and emotions. So Kan and Li switch places and find harmony by supporting each other. Shen, qi, jing is starting with the third eye first until the light of the postnatal shen manifests then bringing it down to the lower Dan tien. So the shen creates qi and the qi jing. Either you start with cultivating xing or ming or both. Some books I've read say only one is enough, others insist that both must be cultivated. Based on San bao theory you cannot disconnect the three treasures unless you're dead or unborn, so if one is abundant it must overflow to the other naturally. It is not possible Imo to cultivate sole shen or solely jing. It goes again the basic cyclic principles of the taiji tu and since our bodies are a product of the five elements which is in turn a product of the yin yang duality then we must function in accordance to that wax and wane and transfer and sublimation of power and efforts. It's the duality of the cultivation paths. Either you start at the udt until postnatal shen is full and manifests the white light (shen vibrates as light) and then bring it down to the lower Dan tien in essence merging nature with life . Or you start at the ldt until postnatal life manifests (heat and vibration/lower frequency) and bringing it up to meet postnatal nature in the udt. Qi is in the middle as water. Whenever I work with the ldt its vibration or heat, with qi its water or electricity with shen its always light. Either way both of these paths, whether you start from jing or from shen both work.

Quadruple post. Sorry.

But the Qi binds the Shen and the Jing together. The jing supports the qi and the qi the shen. This is the fire path, and what most of us practice. The reverse method. The small waterwheel. But as of all dealings under the umbrella of dualism, there is the opposite too, so we have the water path where the shen is nurtured by restraining the eyes and heart and intellectual mind and this in turn builds the qi which nourishes the jing. Buddhism seems to approach things from shen to jing while Taoism mostly from jing to shen, but also both at the same time. If one is on the donkey facing back and the other front are they still both not riding the donkey? If the three treasures interrelate and support each other then are Buddhists simply not ignoring the cultivation of life but still actually achieving it? And if they can achieve what the Taoist does by ignoring it, then what is the benefit of learning all the complicated alchemical instructions of the basic Taoist fire path? Most curious

Tripple post. Sry.

Double post. Sry.

I think that might be it, but are there any supporting texts that describe it with as much detail? I would love to get my hands on this.

Hi Apech, They practice Theravada. I know what you mean, truly, but a good Buddhist monastery is the closest I can get to that type of environment without going to China. I want to incorporate the strengths of both schools of cultivation, but it would be nice to know the goal is the same regardless. Don't wanna be there after 20 years meditating for 5 hours a day with all but a cessation of craving to show of it and certain rebirth into samsara after that. That is if I even get that far.

Inhale them and run them through the mco to dissolve them.

I think people get sucked into Mopai, because it is one of the few accounts of a working system that outrightly demonstrates it's capacity for supernatural abilities. My intention is personally to create my shen spirit so i can fuse my current personality with the immortal soul and live outside of the body eternally. The driving motivation behind this is mostly compassion. I want to come back to roam the void and all the galaxies and universes to explore and learn about existence in all its forms and in all it's scales. Then i want to come back to earth in a humanly form and open martial arts and meditation center where i can teach a hand full of worthy students about Taoism and help the populace ascend one person at a time, no matter how long it takes. My ultimate goal is to open the eyes of others, to release them from the bonds of rigid non-fruitful religious doctrines and show them the true and practical religious methodology for realizing the primordial self and escaping rebirth. I want to be of service to humanity, to heal, to help and to illuminate their minds. In the process of this all, i know i will attain all these superpowers that everyone is so excited about, but i try not to make them my aim, for i know this attachment will only hinder my progress.

Abdominal breathing as stated in the Jade Emperors Mind Seal Classic, creates heat in the lower abdominal region through the combination of physical movement, intent (where the mind goes the qi will follow,) and the resulting temperature increase around the ldt area, helping build the dan tien and apply pressure to the accumulating jing, derived from sexual abstinence. The different techniques employed to breathe in the air, rather than the specialty of the air is why alchemy practitioners utilize the breathing process more effectively. Also let's not forget, that RAB and NAB stimulate the testicles by moving them which in turn stimulates the kidneys and sexual organs. Other than this, I feel as though there is also an element of attunement involved that helps synchronize the practicer with the current of the TAO. This may be linked to brainwave frequencies. We dream during REM, which is when the Shen leaves the body. This phase of the sleep cycle is strongly associated with specific brain frequencies. There are many other reasons Chi Dragon, like the way the breath is held, the interraction and concentrations of C02 and Oxygen, Etc mostly though, I would have to say it all starts from physically heating the blood. In fact there are some very old practices which build the ldt solely through massage. This is the starting point of alchemy for which oxygen respiration is required in different depths and speeds in order to increase the localized temperature. It's no coincidence that they speak of bringing the fire of the heart/mind to scorch the water of the kidneys and lower DT in order to create Yang vapor, vitality, the alchemical agent for it's course up the spine. It all starts with heat Chi Dragon, just like in a laboratory, heat is a great Catalyst for Al-chemical reactions of the hormonal products to take place. In spiritual alchemy we need oxygen in the beginning to catalyze the process, but just like in laboratory chemistry, heat need not always be applied as some transformations take place only when the quantity, quality, maturity and combination of the reactive agents is precise to meet requirements.