effilang

It appears that there is an ongoing campaign to slander our school taking place on the forum by a member whom despite his constant defamation, is still unable to provide any tangible and verifiable proof of his claims against us. Having said that, I just want to make a point clear that has been represented erroneously and no doubt done so on purpose with the aim of misinforming people about our tradition and manipulating the truth to fit their own narratives. Information was purposefully manipulated by FlowingHands, so that it would fit with his false narrative of Xiao Yao Pai originating or coming out of China after the Mao era and was thus labelling us a "half-cooked" school. It is embarrassing to see that unable to substantiate any of his former speculations and claims against our school, he would have to stoop so low as to manipulating information to make a point. This is explicit libel and I urge the administration to take note of this. The claim is this: "...arts that have emerged from China including the Tai Shang Men sect or Xiao Yao Pai, who according to their site did not emerge from China until the 1990's" - This is demonstrably false, and furthermore baseless and vitriolic in nature. To make it clear: our Grandmaster, Li Shang Hu, moved to Indonesia in 1938 around the age of 7. By the early 1970s, he was established and working as an acupuncturist and shopkeeper when he was granted permission by Tai Shang to bring our school out of seclusion and begin to share Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu with the world. This is when we first opened our doors and officially became a public school, abandoning our traditional closed-door spiritual ethos. Today we have nearly 20 temples established in Indonesia, with the first being founded in 1996. Xiao Yao Pai is well known amongst the Daoist clans in China and we have on numerous occasions been invited to Daoist temples to reveal and demonstrate to the priests and abbots our claim of the inheritance of the ancient art. We currently even have initiated priests in Tian Hou Gong in Nanjing, China; who have inherited our school's art; Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu, and this is not the only temple who has inherited XTDYS... but that's a topic a little too sensitive for discussion. By the early 90s our Shifu had already conducted 100s of initiations under the authority of the Celestial head of our school; Tai Shang Lao Jun. Here is a picture of one such event: In addition to all this, as I've said before, If you're in search of legitimation, which has no value to us as a school and our teachings, you can also visit Bai Yun Guan (White Cloud Temple) in Beijing and speak to an official about the document containing the list of China's Taoist clans. As affirmed by the Chinese Daoist Association, you will find Xiao Yao Pai in 33rd place on the list. You can also speak to Zhengyi about us or Wudang Pai in China. They all know us. Additionally, since day one, we have always offered a method to test and verify our claim and this is through initiation. You can take Lukasz's example in post #154. Do we claim that we are disciples and representatives of Tai Shang? - Yes. Can we prove it? - Yes. Can you come and prove it yourself if you want to be sure personally? - Yes. I haven't heard as much offered in terms of backing up their claims from all those that have been trying to defame us, and the truth is that I'm quite frankly not interested in inter-school squabbles, so I won't demand it from anyone. To each their own. If someone would like to bring up charges against us and our claims, they will need to back them up with substantial evidence, not mere speculation - just like we back up ours through initiation. Manipulating and introducing information to suit their needs so they can substantiate their claims is a disgusting practice. Further more our initiated students testimonials also very clearly speak for themselves... Cheers : )

At this time only our GM is at Dao Shi level. There are however several Dao Zun to whom he has delegated the authority of initiation on his behalf. We are all brothers and sister in the Dao. While it is courteous to show respect to our GM, Hu Fa Shen and our Seniors, we have no obligation to each other. There are no strings attached in "Xiao Yao" Pai, hence our schools name : )

I just received a practice video from one of the recently initiated UK Dao Yu, Lukasz. He has been practising for around 10 days now since he was initiated and is still getting used to the whole idea of HFS moving him. I thought I'd accompany his video with a few pictures from his initiation and give a little back story. For starters, Lukasz is an atheist. I met him a little less than two years ago and since then we have become good friends. The more I spoke to him the more he earned my respect, and despite our friendship, mutual interests and values, we were two worlds apart, because my every day reality consisted of "things" he could only imagine. Things that have the power to change a person's life forever. His logical mind and his personal values made him a perfect candidate for Dao Ying (initiation), so one day I shared my ideas with him and challenged him to verify it before making up his mind. Fast forward around one year and he was in London, true to his word, ready to come and investigate. It wasn't that he believed in any of it, but I had earned his respect and apart from my proclamations of fantastical spiritual experiences, I otherwise appeared to him as a completely logical and grounded person. He had seen me debate against religion on numerous occasions and knew my standpoints against faith, blind beliefs, dogma, and worship, and it made him more comfortable to look deeper into my claims. I wasn't one of those "crazy religious guys", yet somehow he still couldn't reconcile the person he knew me to be with all the "spiritual" stuff. Logic and Spirituality, how can they exist together? Despite his doubts, he made the choice to come and see if I was bullshitting him : ) Maybe I was? "Come to the initiation and find out for yourself" - I told him. "Don't believe me." On the day of the event his scepticism rose to an all time high. I welcomed it and told him to ask me anything he wishes. When it was time to prepare for the initiation, he confessed that he was not sure yet and would prefer to stand back and watch others get initiated first. I told him, that's no problem : ) He stood back and waited patiently as we began to prepare for the initiation. By the time we were done 10 minutes later, the new Dao Yu were already being physically moved by their newly assigned HFS, while others had more profound subtle energy and spirit level experiences. Some could already see their HFS as soon as the initiation started and others were communicating freely with their new teacher. By the end of the initiation, the data he came to receive was there, albeit lacking of any substantial conclusion, because it still remained shy of the most important component of this investigation, his own direct personal full body experience. Observation is simply not proof enough. To truly know the truth about Xiantian Dao Yin Shu, HFS must move your body, your energy, your mind, your spirit, appear before you or communicate directly with you. We ended the day, on a positive note and he didn't say too much about it, only saying that he needed to think about it some more, but eventually the questions came. Lucky for him we were staying in the same hotel, so he had the opportunity to ask me questions all through the evening and I obliged. He told me, that he wasn't sure that he's ready to be initiated yet and said he thinks he needs more time to do research. I felt him slipping away and retreating into uncertainty, but as his friend I didn't want him to miss the opportunity, knowing how much potential he had and how much progress he could make in a year of practice, before the next initiation. I explained to him that even if he were to go away now and come back a year later with all the research in the world completed and done, he would find himself in exactly the same state and situation he was currently in. Intellectualising, philosophising and theorising about something is not really it. Just like a book which describes the taste of sugar isn't sugar itself, but a mere intellectual representation. We must put the sugar in our mouth and taste it before it can be understood and experienced. Our teacher Laozi said, Dao Ke Dao Fei Chang Dao (道可道, 非常道) The same applies to initiation. We have to jump from "philosophy" to "practice" to get results, otherwise all we have is conjecture; an instrument of ignorance. No matter how much people debate, ask me questions, read up on and research; and travel to uncover hidden knowledge, the truth is that there is no way to verify if XTDYS is genuine or not, unless you experience it directly, so whether you research for 5, 10 or 20 years, the decision is always the same at the end of the day. It always boils down to the same thing. Try it and know or walk away and don't. Either way is ok. It doesn't matter to us. But there's really no in-between. If you find something in text, or theory that suddenly convinces you to that you need to be initiated, then ultimately you were your own barrier in the first place, because the truth of our art is not in text or theory. The oldest and strongest human emotion is fear, and the oldest and strongest type of fear, is the fear of the unknown If it was anyone else other than a friend, like Lukasz, I would have simply told the person, no worries see you in the future, and let him go on his way - frankly, just so I could save myself the philosophical debates, but I really wanted Lukasz to know what I knew and experience life and reality the way I did. So I gave him more of my time in discussion to try and clear his mind of doubts. The future is difficult to predict, because it can branch into many possibilities, but I thought I'd let him know that he was very close, and confided in him that his HFS was already waiting for him. I told him, tomorrow is the last day, so sleep on it and try to decide, it is an important decision : ) On the next day, his mind had found him yet something else to sway him. I saw everyone moving he said, but now I want to hear them speak about their movement. I said, fine. Do that : ) I had told the new Dao Yu before they left the day before to have some food, take a shower, relax and practice one time on their own before they go to bed. The mind is a little less active then and it's easier to connect after the initiation, because people can be anxious during and the adrenaline can stiffen their joints and muscles considerably. As the day progressed, they all started to share their experiences of their first practice outside of the initiation. What he heard being described, was not what he expected. Deep down inside, I could tell he wanted to hear pronouncements of disappointment, but every following description broke down his prejudice more and more, until there was no way to go. He has seen it, he had heard it, all that was left now was to feel it for himself. His doubt was beset on all sides by the walls of a reality which was gradually beginning to seem less and less absurd to accept. A few hours passed, through which I answered more of his questions and I felt him get more and more excited about the prospects of becoming initiated. After a short while, he came up to me and said, Ok, lets do it. I spoke with the masters and notified them that he had made his decision and that we would need to have another initiation after everyone had left. After I had thanked everyone for coming and the hall began to empty out, I walked up to the back of the room where Lukasz was having a conversation with a friend of mine. I leaned in and asked him one last question, one last time: "Blue pill or Red pill?" - Red it was... Lukasz preparing to be registered in the heavenly register and connected to Hu Fa Shen. My Master making the request to Tai Shang to accept Lukasz into Xiao Yao Pai as his student. The activation of the Yuan Shen The connection His Hu Fa Shen connects and his first movement begins Full initial physical movement by HFS; in his case a static pose. His HFS makes him hold the posture for a while. At this point me and my master are snickering away. Me behind the camera and him while completing the initiation. His reactions when we were done? Absolute... fucking.... shock. In about the time it took to make popcorn, his whole belief system was flipped 180 degrees. All he could say for the next 5 minutes, was "holy shit" and "fuck" "something actually moved me", followed by apologies to excuse his language in front of the masters, followed by more "shit" and "fuck" - hahaha, we were all laughing : ) Either way. I'm really proud of him for finding the the bravery it required and overcoming his fears. I had never seen him that anxious and I know he dug deep to push through. Since then he has been practising regularly every day and is always texting me about new and amazing experiences. I gave him a few tips about how to communicate with HFS and now he already knows his Hu Fa Shen's name. As you can see in Lukasz's video compared to mine, our movements are very different. Hu Fa Shen always works on us based on our individual conditions. The way HFS moves our body corresponds to the condition that is being treated. In my movie however no condition was being treated, I had long since stopped moving and progressed to Qigong and Jing Zuo by the time I made that movie. I specifically had to ask Hu Fa Shen to guide me in something fancy as I was making it for people to see, hence the fancy lighting and presentation. After Lukasz's body has been refined adequately, HFS will progress to guided Xiantian Qigong, where he will control his breath and guide his Qi, and later Xiantian Jing Zuo where Hu Fa Shen will guide his awareness from Taiji and into Wuji. I've got plenty more pictures to show of all the others that were initiated, but I haven't had the chance yet to sit down and post produce everything. I'll share them with you when I have. Best wishes and again thank you for making a practice video to share with everyone. His first basic practice video. Day 10. Xiantian Shen Gong. Nothing fancy, but its not about how it looks, but how it affects the body and energy. Plus he's a beginner : )

Thank you for understanding.

I'd like to share a new testimonial from one of this month's UK initiated: TESTIMONIAL 34: The Initiation itself was very quick, I was a little nervous, but otherwise comfortable. Beforehand my main concern was the question of whether every person was suitable for initiatioh; was I good enough? I have experienced movements in other practices, so when the time came, I was confident there would be some movement. The movement however, was quite subtle and I questioned it, then I noticed my lower back was painful, I figured it was bad posture or an energy blockage being cleared. I began to sit up straighter and that was more comfortable. Later on at the hotel I would have more movements and feel very tired after this. Also I noticed that practicising on a full stomach was undesirable or rather, unpleasant. Returning home and continuing practice, the things that I have noticed so far: I have been more comfortable in myself. I feel less abused by others energies, also more aware of this. I feel more self contained and self driven, productive. I'm starting to feel bouts of joy, reminding me of childhood. Also I am finding less time for time wasting people and more easily extricating them from my life. During practice I am experiencing a lot of head and postural movements, and also weeping eyes, not in a sense of crying or emotional feelings, perhaps more in a sense of subconscious release of emotions.This leading to more balance and tranquillity. I hope this testimonial helps others take that step they have been considering. So far this is the most rewarding course/initiation I have experienced and I have only just begun working with it. Will D.

@ YiYinYiYang I don't know who these people are, but It would be highly unethical to submit the proof you are asking for here. I strongly recommend that you take this topic to a private conversation where you can share sensitive information about persons, and in addition prevent this thread from going off topic.

Hello OpenDao, Despite your reputation on the forum, your offensive behaviour towards other members, and your unwarantedly demonstrable disdane and distaste for our tradition, I gave you two friendly opportunities to answer some introductory questions to help settle you into the thread and assure me that you are here to be a productive contributor and not a disruptor and troublemaker. You've declined on both occasions to respect that simple request and have tactfully avoided to answer each time. On the back of this and your former exhibitions of your character in this forum, I'm afraid I'm not comfortable with having you participate in this thread and find your general temperament to be one of disrespect and contempt. I apologise for the inconvenience. Please kindly, contact SeekerOfHealing directly to receive the information you are after. I am sure you can post any developments thereof in one of your threads to discuss your findings further. I have also sent this message to you by PM. Best wishes on your way and may the Dao guide you well. Xuan Daoji UPDATE: While It is not in my character (nor these forum's rules) to share personal messages. I will say that, your communication to me in private after my final message to you here, made it abundantly clear that my decision in asking you to leave was justified. Despite that you still continue to post here. If you know that you have any, please show some dignity, some integrity and some self-respect and stop coming back here. Your intentions and attitude are not appreciated and you are not welcome.

Be consistent Be natural Be humble

The sand hasn't quite settled yet from the UK and US events this month, but once I put everything in its place again, I'll have a look at my schedule for next year. It's still a bit early to say and I have my eye on India as we have around 30 people waiting to be initiated there, however I will plan for the UK and US again in 2017 - possibly around the end of the year again, but there is a slight chance it may be in the summer as I want to use the roof at one of our event places for some outdoor practice. I'll make an announcement in the FB group, Webpage, FB Page (links in my signature) as well as in this thread, in due time and I'll make sure to give everyone at least 6 months in advance to prepare.

Fair enough. However, you tactfully skipped these 4 questions. Do you have a problem with answering them? Are you here to make trouble? Why the sudden interest in Xiao Yao Pai? Is your school unsatisfactory? To what end? (with your enquiry) You'll have to excuse my suspicions, but like I said. You don't have a very good reputation on the forum and have demonstrably shown your distaste for our tradition in the past, so I think my questions are justified by your "sudden" appearance here and your contradictorily keen interest in our school... I'd appreciate it if you answered them with some dignity, rather than avoiding them. It's not very good etiquette and not a good first impression of your arrival here.

Another testimonial just came in from one of the newly initiated Dao Yu. Thank you for sharing Gerry, good luck to both of you guys : ) TESTIMONIAL 33 My experiences so far with Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu method has been very encouraging. Prior to the initiation in Virginia which occurred a few weeks ago, my husband and I had tried different spiritual paths simply to find a divine connection and meaning to everyday life. The most significant path had been for the last 12 years in a Hindu tradition, with a guru and shaktipat. When we decided to pursue the XTDYS path, I thought if my husband could be healed from a condition of constant muscular pain and fatigue which has not been diagnosable or treatable, that in itself would be a miracle. The path we had followed for many years, although having much value in gaining spiritual knowledge, had not yielded any results in improving with the physical and mental body. I still found myself allowing thoughts to divert from present awareness, engaging in mind chatter, worry etc .. although meditation was beneficial I thought there was still a lack in progress amidst spontaneous kriya movements and I grew more tamasic (sleepy). For the initiation, meeting Masters Nina and Fleming was a blessing in itself. As described before in others' accounts, their calm and clear energy was truly affecting toward all. All that I wanted was to be nearby and listen to their explanations, stories and kind laughter. The introductory teaching of the path was clear and simple although packed with information. Initiation was a wonderful experience!! The best experience one could hope for. Meeting wonderful people, both new and older initiates who were so kind and gracious. On initiation day, I experienced the movements I had read about in tao bums forum and recounted by others here. In the following days I felt an increase in physical movements especially if I chose to stand. Due to issues in lower back and hips, I was doing hip rotations, neck rotations, qigong like movements, some odd half-back bends. After an hour of practice I would feel clarity and groundedness throughout the day and received positive feedback from others such as openness (my driving skills greatly improved ! lol). I began micro hand gestures, the pointer finger and thumb pressed together doing counterclockwise rotations, while doing this in the air in front of my eyes, face and widening to shoulder width, then larger circular rotations with arms, perhaps scrubbing my subtle body? Wow, I never felt a connection like this before! I think the main difference between this path and others is that it requires an open mind, good intention/faith to establish the connection with FFS, and not devotion of the heart to a guru/minister/ or other human intermediary that other religions require. I am confident XTDYS will equip me to understand what it is that "I" need so that I can progressively live a life of love and truth with others. Lastly, my husband has already experienced some improvement in his health as his FFS has guided movements that focus on critical pain areas. Thank you for this opportunity and I feel enormous gratitude to Nina and Fleming as well as to Xuan Daoji, Xanina and all the others that made this event happen in the U.S.! Very Respectfully, Gerry B. DAO YING - OCT 2016 - VIRGINIA | US

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Welcome to the Xiao Yao Pai thread, opendao. Since you are part of a school that vehemently opposes our tradition, I have to ask; by being here, are you planning on changing your school, learning from our teachings, or have you simply come to make trouble? Why the sudden interest in Xiao Yao Pai? Is your school unsatisfactory? To what end? Your enquiry seems very strongly to project your own and your schools values, while ignoring those of the school whose thread you find yourself in. Let me illuminate you about this matter, since it seems you have not taken the time to read through the thread: Xiao Yao Pai does not transmit knowledge related to our essential spiritual cultivation through text and "other important things" and these things do not constitute the medium of transmission in our tradition. To find out how we receive teachings or learn in our school, please read through the thread more carefully. Finally, I want to add that you do not have a very good reputation on the forum, so please be mindful of your intentions and attitude here. I will be keeping a watchful eye...

Thank you for your attention.

You're welcome. Of course not. I wouldn't dare be so bold or ignorant or arrogant. The Dao to me simply means existence. I believe that the Dao is formless in its highest state, but that it spirals down and takes form and refracts through relative consciousness, tradition and culture to create the many branches of beliefs and schools we have present in the world today. I believe there are clear paths to it and I believe there are ones that are difficult to traverse. I also believe that there are many schools who do not reach the deepest point of the Dao, but find residence somewhere around it in a celestial reality created by their own conscious projections and the consensus of their practitioners - Because of this each school has their vibration and that vibration corresponds to their position on the celestial ladder; a position which can only be elevated by going deeper into emptiness. To this degree, I believe there are many schools who have relative status and rank that are always evolving and I believe that they all aspire to point to the same thing: "...................." My aim is only to help others find a path that can help them move forward, but I wish for each individual to be the captain of their own journey and an independent being. As they say, we are all walking each other back home, hand in hand.

My pleasure. I show respect where respect is granted : ) Yes there are different exercises we inherit which we can cultivate on our own without the guidance of HFS eg: - To train certain types of energy during the day when we're at work and can't actively invoke HFS - Mantra activated exercises to help us interact with environmental energies and more. After we trigger the disciples Yuan Shen during the initiation, the golden aura of our school wraps around our Hun Shen (Human Spirit). Every time we practice the Hun Shen absorbs the energy of the Divine and for the lack of better phraseology, "downloads" the general Xian blueprint directly from HFS so that our Hun Shen can begin to restructure itself and unify the 3 Hun and 7 Po into one energetic entity; Yang Shen. So every day we practice after initiation, the signature energy of our schools activates to refine us from Yin Shen to Yang Shen, wrapping around us like a cocoon of golden light. After 3 to 5 years of regular practice, the Xiao Shen already begins to form above the head. At first like an amorphous vapour ~1 foot over the Bai Hui point, then later as we absorb more divine energy and practise XTDYS, it starts to take on our physical features and become consciously enabled. All the while HFS protects us so we can practice in peace. So it's almost like giving birth. That is why they call it the immortal birth from the top of the head. At first it's like a baby, with no intellect, then little by little as our awareness transfers to it to enable its consciousness, it grows and becomes fully aware and fuses into one being that we ourselves are the embodiment of. So just like we are born into the physical world first, and we must learn to crawl, then walk and act and conduct ourselves. It's the same with the immortal birth after we are delivered from Taiji into Wuji - and HFS guides and protects us like a parent. So it's a gradual process. Yes, Yin Shen cannot vibrate low enough to become physical. It can't be touched or even seen, because It's too high on the EM spectrum, but Yang Shen can be both seen and unseen. Material and Immaterial, it is a manifestation of Wuji, so it can disperse into the Dao and cannot be located, or it can condense and have a three dimensional form. I think most Taoist schools aim to achieve this. Yes, apart from our Shifu we have people on many different levels from 0 to 3. At the moment our Shifu is the only known inheritor of XTDYS at the GM level (4). Lao Tzu is an incarnation of Tai Shang Lao Jun, yes; also the hermit Guangzhengzi who transmitted XTDYS to Huangdi. I have not interacted with Lei Gong or Yuanshi Tianzun, maybe I will give them a ring in the future. The Dao is very mysterious as I'm sure you know. To every Dao Yu, knowing Tai Shang and knowing the Jade Emperor are like knowing ones own being, and I personally believe that it is an experience we must discover on our own. I could of course ask my masters, by I have long ago abandoned the desire to know of other peoples personal experiences on the path. I only care for my own and enabling others to experience theirs. The mystery of Tai Shang is something I will know better with time. For now, my interactions with him are in the form of formless energy and yet to take the constant form of Laozi as we know him from pictures. I say constant, because I have gotten visions of him, but that is not his true formless state. I try to keep my mind always open, not creating expectations or images of how things aught to be. With time, I am sure I will go deeper into this mystery. I admit I do not know for now : ) Actually, we are all cultivating. I am cultivating. My master is cultivating. My Shifu is cultivating. My Hu Fa Shen is cultivating. All the immortals are also cultivating. Just at different levels. The Dao is infinite : ) There are many spirits as you know and many immortals, but a teacher is a very special type of person indeed and not everyone can do it. Just like in our physical branch we select those who will become teachers and can represent our school on Earth, Tai Shang also selects those who will represent him directly as Hu Fa Shen in Heaven. I do not know his criteria, but I know that our Xian are of a very high quality, in virtue, in skill and in wisdom. Tai Shang's first direct representatives are Er Lang Shen and Jiu Tian Xuan Nu. Again some of these questions go beyond my current reach so I cannot provide as much detail as I'd like to. Maybe you will find out before me, maybe I will find out before you. We can share with each other whatever the case : )

Yes indeed. Perhaps rejection is a strong word, but then again... it happens. Let's just say we give them some time to introspect. Something like 5 or 10 years, maybe a lifetime. Then we ask them to come back so we can observe their character and wisdom. Every ancient master had his methods to test his candidates, It's nothing new. Over the next couple of years I will progressively make it a little more demanding to apply and it's possible that one will have to take and pass a small test. HFS understands that our acquired condition is not our original nature, so generally speaking, all are accepted when it comes to the initiation itself from a soul level, but these Dao Yu will usually have much more gruelling tests with their HFS and for many of those, they often get paired to a pretty bad ass, no bullshit HFS - hahah Now... before one actually gets to that point where they are accepted for initiation, we must do our own work to filter people so that we can maintain a certain level of quality and safety within our school. How we go about doing that, is for us to know. Every school wants good students... I will categorically turn away people who are hungry for power and seek to dominate others, without question. These types of souls are still very young and need time to learn more about life so they can elevate themselves to more virtuous character and sometimes it may just be that their conditioning is so hard that it will take too much effort to re-train them before they stop being a liability to themselves and others. So we turn our attention to those that are ready. Sooner or later all rivers will lead to the ocean, there is no rushing. One's immediate character is evidence of their level of being. When someone comes to learn spiritual cultivation the motivation should be to expand, know ones self, help others and support humanity - and as an organisation we reserve the right to be selective about who we accept under our roof. Our Dao Yu family is big and our regular events often include many little children, so they must be safeguarded from bad influences, the children as well as the adults : ) There is no rush when it comes to spiritual cultivation. One can join our school at 60 and still make very significant progress. There is also next life : ) When our HFS apply with Tai Shang to represent him and teach under Xiao Yao Pai, their quality must also be checked. The most common question here from everyone is, is HFS safe. How about is our physical school safe, that is also just as important. So we must also filter some people to guarantee that safety.

@ SeekerOfHealing You get it, buddy. You get it... I really like your comment here: Our GM is a TCM doctor. The person who initiated me is an electrical engineer. I am an architectural visualiser. We do not wear fancy robes. We just look and act like ordinary people. The Dao is natural and ordinary and yet in its simplicity it holds the greatest mystery : )

I want to open up a little about our relationship with Hu Fa Shen through our xiudao (Cultivation of the Dao) 0: Dao Yu (道友) Here HFS treats us like primary or elementary school students. If we come across a steep ravine, HFS will help us by holding us up and making sure we don't get hurt. 1: Dao Shi (道仕) Here HFS treats us like secondary school students. If we come across a steep ravine, HFS will caution us, but we must carry ourselves and jump of our own accord if necessary 2: Dao Zhang (道张) - 2a, 2b, 2c. Here HFS treats us like university students and we already have significant independence and maturity. If we come across a steep ravine, we are expected to be able to see it ourselves and take the necessary actions. At this level even if we fall, HFS just observes us and waits for us to take charge and get up. 3. Dao Zun (道尊) Here HFS treats us like graduates from the university of life. A this point, we are completely independent and on a level where we can work in union with HFS to help others on the most profound spiritual levels. 4. Dao Shi (道师) Here we are granted the authority to represent Tai Shang Lao Jun as official representatives of the celestial realm. The Daoshi is authorised to delegate representation to those that reach Dao Zun level, so they can initiate others on their behalf.

You would make a very good Dao Yu in our school These are the sort of founding qualities we look for at the heart of each candidate. Thank you for understanding and good luck in your practice!

@ Aetherous Funny you posted that picture. I use that illustration all the time to describe the very same thing to Dao Yu in our school, only I prefer to use a fluffy bunny in my verbal illustrations

@ Walker What a funny experience lol. I'm glad you didn't get beaten up, but at the same time I understand why he would make such a threat; the PRC doesn't take kindly to stuff like that... so it makes sense he would have tried to keep you in his deceitful circle and prevent himself from being exposed. I can't imagine he continued after that with such a risk looming over him, but who knows... The truth is that Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu is considered by many to be nothing more than a legend, but none the less a legend people know of. Our schools roots go back to the patron saint of the Dao; Huangdi, who established Xiao Yao Guan in Kong Tong Shan, and his master; the hermit Guangzhengzi, from whom he inherited our schools art; Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu. The temple is over 5000 years old now and you can still go and visit Xiao Yao Guan today. It is commonly referred to as Dao Guan, the first temple of China. The warrior goddess Jiu Tian Xuan Nu, who guided Huangdi during the battle of Zhuolu, is a Xian in our school and I often practice with her. To anyone else, who wants more proof, we have also been part of the Zhengyi Dao branch for a very long time, albeit no longer on paper as we chose to avoid binding, umbrella "political" affiliations after we came out of seclusion in the 70s - the sort of affiliations, that would grant power to others over us and prevent us from having absolute authority on matters of our school, how we share our art and whom we share it with. We believe strongly that Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu is something to be shared with the whole world and not limited to the borders of any one geographical region, a people or a race. The priests of Zhengyi in Longhu Shan know us. Wudang Pai is also acquainted with us. In addition to all this, you can also visit Bai Yun Guan (White Cloud Temple) in Beijing. You can ask the officials there to see the list of China's ancient schools as affirmed by the Chinese Daoist Association. Xiao Yao Pai is in 33rd place on the list. We currently even have initiated priests in Tian Hou Gong in Nanjing, China; who have inherited our school's art; Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu, and many other temples, which I can't mentioned for political reasons. (I have a picture of the initiation). I am certain that there are many other spiritual schools of Daoism that have still not opened their doors and continue to transmit their art in private, as did the majorty of the ancient schools prior to Zhang Daoling's reforms. Daoist schools in olden days were quite small (1 - 10 ppl) and masters of the arts would usually pass down their teachings only to immediate family, but in times of continuously recurring religious, political and cultural conflicts, many schools were threatened, so for most of these old Pai the choice to remain obscure and away from the public eye, was simply a matter of safety - and a way to protect those closest to them, while they could continue to cultivate their art in peace. However, exceptions in transmission of these arts was occasionally privileged to ministers of the court and royalty, which in turn granted needed protection and immunity from persecution. To illustrate the level of secrecy that surrounded many of these old schools, it's interesting to note that people who studied under the same master, often could pass each other on the street and not know who they were or that they were brothers or sisters of the Dao under the same master. So when we look at any of the old spiritual schools that existed before the Zhang Daoling and Celestial Masters era, it's quite difficult to trace anything. So as a form of proof, our school organizes an initiation to demonstrate the authenticity of our lineage and dispel any doubts. I honestly would not respect anyone who did not have doubts, because that already hints to me that they have the mind of a blind follower, which is not representative of the nature of a genuine Daoist - which is more akin to a scientist that seeks to explore, discover, test and understand the universe in order to elevate his being and produce results that can aid him in bettering his physical and spiritual life. If we look at any of the ancient Daoists, you can see that they worked to create harmony with their physical life and not run away from it and go and hide in a monastery. That's why today we have Feng Shui, Acupuncture, Physiognomy, Agriculture, Cloth Making, Mathematics, Astronomy, Weapon Building, Animal Taming, Herbology, Qigong, Martial Arts etc. - All these are attempts to make life more enjoyable and to find harmony in the living of life. Physical life must be in harmony with Spiritual life, so that we can pierce into the depth of the Dao through the midpoint of Yin and Yang, whence the emptiness of Wuji can be accessed. So just as much as there is physical extremism like asceticism, there is also spiritual extremism. So we have to be careful not to stray, so that we can flow with the current of existence and not against it : ) I do not have any other form of proof that is more substantial that that of one's own personal sense based experience and I truly believe than anyone who favors theory, philosophy and text over actual experiences and results is in some serious fort-knox-level-lock-down denial, and I'll go as far as to say afraid of being proven wrong. That's why a few people here will love to sit and text me and criticize me, but when I openly invite them to come and test us, all I hear is the crickets in the background.... Most schools cannot bear their heart raw like we can and then hand the stake to the doubters, because few can demonstrate the results even after a life time of supposed cultivation, but they are more than happy to tell you to practice for 10 years and pay exorbitant fees. People want proof NOW. Not in 10 years not in 20 years. After all, what sort of a master cannot demonstrate his skill? Maybe one day when you have the opportunity you can come to verify our claim at an initiation. Then you can close this chapter in your book of well founded curiosity and doubt and open up a brand new one. Until that day comes, if ever it does, I will do my best to answer your questions here. Thank you for sharing your story, Walker. Best wishes.

Hi grassmountainsage. "Use" them wouldn't really be the right way to say it. You can't use Hu Fa Shen. They are an independent conscious being. You can certainly feel free to ask them though. A request would be a more appropriate way to term it. Even though they act as our friend, protector and mentor, they are still Xian Shen, so we should show some basic respect. So if you want to learn something in particular from your HFS, you can ask. Usually I ask some silly scientific questions and on a few other occasions, I've asked for help with more mundane daily things, like which interview to reject for a job and which one to wait for, which city to move to, and on some other occasions a Dao Bum here humbly asked for some form of proof, so he sent me test questions about the burial location of his deceased grandparents; so I obliged and HFS helped with the location. Things like that. The connection to HFS develops just like with any other relationship. Some of the new Dao Yu texted me yesterday after they had a flight to Rome to meet their sister, saying how they never get bored now, because they can always just communicate with HFS. I don't offer confirmations like that anymore, but sometimes if the person is genuine I can work with Tai Shang and my HFS to "move" someone in another location, so they can have a personal experience. This is a new skill which I recently cultivated. Again, I prefer for people to make the leap themselves and just come and verify it of their own accord during an initiation. Some people travel from half way across the world, some even came from Peru to the UK this year to confirm it, so why should it be so easy for others? Everyone must make a little effort. Another lady called me on the day of the initiation, saying she is terribly ill, can't move and has been throwing up all morning. I just gave her some words of inspiration and she found the courage to make it even though she arrived much later. She still got initiated, received HFS and had an amazing weekend. The quality of the Xian Shen. They are at a very high level of wisdom and consciousness, so we've never had a record of anything like that. Not once since we became public in 1970 and not from anyone of our 140,000+ practitioners. Hu Fa Shen always works to your highest benefit. They are on duty by Tai Shang Lao Jun. Furthermore every Hu Fa Shen must first be authorised by Tai Shang before they can guide anyone under the celestial branch of our school. So you could say they also go through an application and interview to apply for the position. Then they must follow the curriculum of our school. Its similar to a physical brick and mortar educational institution and the Xian have their posts and responsibilities. Our HFS have already refined their negative personality traits and express themselves as a unified being directly from emptiness, so their Mind, Speech, Heart and Action are collapsed into one expression and they are governed by the pre-heavenly virtues, not the acquired post-heavenly hindrances. Yes of course, naturally. We practise spiritual cultivation, so all this manifests through practice. We develop the 6 Transportations of Shen as well as the 8 Supernatural Powers. In addition to that we learn additional skills specific to our school. I can think of around 7 others off the top of my head, but in total they are 26 and this does not include the skills you will learn from other immortals with which you choose to interact and learn from. So in total that's 40. I cannot go into too much detail about many of the additional 26 skills, but I can speak of the 8 + 6 as they develop in every individual who cultivates authentic spiritual methods, regardless of their tradition. The 6 Skills of the Shen are: 1. You can see and understand the Present without discrimination. 2. You can see and understand the Past and the Future without discrimination. 3. You can know a person's thoughts. 4. You can read a person's karma and destinty, both the given destinty and the projection of the acquired destiny. 5. You can hear the spiritual realm and physical realm. 6. You can explore the universe. The 8 Xian Skills are: 1. You can become light, levitate and use soul projection. 2. You can become heavy. 3. You can shrink the spirit body to an infinite size and observe minute processes. 4. You can expand the spirit body to an infinite size and observe grand processes. 5. You can control the 5 elements and create physical matter. 6. You can manifest and enjoy your wishes. 7. You can manifest any energetic form. 8. You can control animate and inanimate objects. A few of those which are specific to our school are: 1. The ability to communicate with any divine being. 2. The ability to repel evil spirits within a huge radius. 3. The ability to clear a space of negative energy and purify it. 4. The ability to consecrate an altar or place and have a Xian guard it. 5. The ability to ascertain if there is "magic" or "power" in a place or object. etc. Most of these skills are developed gradually, because they come as our spirit is strengthened and they become a part of our being, but It's not a snap of the fingers reaction. Others are granted as our awareness and Gong De grows. These are like gifts that are bestowed upon us as members of our school, but they too must also be earned. Sometimes a skill is granted to test our character, other times it is taken away to trigger the very same reaction. To try and explain this, think of a general in an army. His uniform and status allows him a certain authority ie: to command the army, give orders and even launch small controlled tactical nukes. His position bestows him a lot of power, but if he is demoted or losses his post he also losses those privileges. These types of skills are similar to some of those granted to us as our wisdom and awareness develops, but if we leave the school or act unvirtuously, they can be stripped. On the other hand, the general has another set of personal skills which cannot be taken away. Those are the ones he cultivates through his own effort ie: his personal martial ability, his gun handling ability, his skills in tactics and strategy, navigation and so on and so forth. These skills no matter whether he remains a general or not are always there : ) I hope that helps to clarify their differences. - In terms of healing others, we advise our practitioners not to do it until they open the MCO in our system, but this requires the instruction of Jin Jia Shen who appears when the Ren and Du mei are ready to be connected in the way of our school, which is very different from how the Ren and Du are connected and flow in other systems. This allows us to recharge our energy quickly so we can more rapidly transform and apply our energy to another human through Wai Qi Liao Fa safely and without exhausting our own energy reserves. Otherwise the energy we cultivate is too fine to use on a typical Hun Shen (human spirit), so in our school we must do some work to learn how to step the energy down so that it does not shock another persons spirit. We have to tune it down from Wuji to Taiji so we can apply it in the physical dimension safely, if that makes sense, otherwise it can overwhelm another persons spirit. Long Term: Yang Shen Spiritual Immortality and Kong Short Term: Clarity, Peace, Lack of Prejudice, Vitality, Alleviation of Physical ailments, basic spiritual skills. Yes it is fine. Most people who study Taiji that become initiated, usually report an enhanced practice. Stronger energy, rooting, a better perception and sensitivity to energy and correction from Hu Fa Shen during practice for postural alignment etc. At the beginning it is fine to continue to practice whatever you wish on the side, but eventually our practice becomes quite specific so at some point a practitioner will have to step in with both feet if they want to fulfil the more advanced steps in our spiritual curriculum. Between the "beginning" and "eventually" is a time frame that will vary depending on our talents and consistency of practice. For some it can be 5 years for others 10. I think I might have answered this one before. One need only address Tai Shang directly and make a formal request and the apprenticeship will be dissolved. No strings attached. It's not part of our primary curriculum, but the Dao Yu can request lessons on the topic from their HFS or contact a specialised HFS whom excels in these skills. It's fine. Yes, quite, but the expansion is mostly in the spiritual field, which can extend quite a lot. I can usually feel my master in a nearby location even if I can't see him. His spiritual energy would rush up my body like a reverse waterfall. This was my sensation in the beginning, now I do not feel it so anymore as I've adapted to the frequency of our school. So usually now, I just feel an initial connection if I come in contact with their aura, but after that there is no sensation anymore, because I've adapted to it through my own practice and absorbing divine energy during Xian Tian Dao Yin Shu. 5 (8) 0: Dao Yu (道友) 1: Dao Shi (道仕) 2: Dao Zhang (道张) - 2a, 2b, 2c. 3. Dao Zun (道尊) 4. Dao Shi (道师) No we don't. We have two reasons for this in our tradition. 1. We are not a Houtian system, so we don't follow a human master. In Xiantian we learn from Hu Fa Shen. - So there's no way to show a chart with an immortals name, because It can't be verified by the observer in a way that can allow them to authenticate or determine the quality of the school. For that we have initiation, so they can feel the immortal directly as a form of proof. 2. A lineage chart is not proof of anything. It's just something to help ease the mind of the inquirer. - So to provide that assurance, we act as a teacher of the martial arts would in ancient times. We say fight me. If you can beat me, then I can't teach you anything, but If I can beat you then you can learn something from me. To us this is embodied in our initiation. So anyone who is curious about whether what we say is true or false, can just come and test it then they can decide based on that. No bullshit, no gimmicks, no "trust me" this lineage chart is legit. We focus on what we can prove in the present, not what was in the past. We're trying to move forward not back right? So each person must employ the attitude of a scientist and seek proof when they decide to join XYP. We don't entertain the mind of a follower or encourage faith and we don't believe in what we can't experience. We have to shift from Philosophy (Theory) to Action (Experience) and then to produce Results (Skill). So again, in our tradition, we use the initiation to provide immediate experience and results so that there is no ambiguity of any sort. Again, here we differ quite a bit from many schools, but this is generally due to us being Xiantian and not Houtian. We also call it Yang Shen. First Xiao Shen, then Yang Shen as the 3 Hun and 7 Po fuse deeper together to form the unified conscious immortal being. Best wishes. PS: While I was writing this one of our members who came from Belgium that was initiated last weekend just texted me saying she had an amazing experience and she's able to channel HFS directly through her voice to have conversations. She said how is it possible that we can develop such spiritual skills so early on. She couldn't believe it lol - I'm very happy for her : ) PPS: She comes from a previous tradition of Buddhism and received Shaktipath in India from her former Master.

Thank your for you opinion, Flowing Hands. Farewell... yet again..

So to battle my copy and paste you also copy and paste? - Good one, hehe I think that there is a reason why Bodhidharma's attribution to Yinjing Jing and Xi Sui Jing is called a "legend"... Because according to a legend, according to a legend, according to a legend so and so happened : ) If the 28th Patriarch of Buddhism had such amazing gongfu skills, then how about his master and how about the following patriarchs to whom he transmitted his teachings? Where is their representation of this "martial" skill? What about Hui Kom, Dao Xin, Hui Neng and so on, are they proficient in gongfu also based on "Buddhist" teachings? If all the secrets were transmitted from Buddhism, then where is also their gongfu prowess? Out of all the Patriarchs, is Bodhidharma the only one who was adept at gongfu? How come? How is it possible, what of before and after him? Where are his practising brothers in gongfu, or did he practice with his shadow only to become such a master? Did Bodhidharma learn gongfu from his teacher Prajnatara? Where are the records? Is he even from the lineage of Sakyamuni? Where are the records? How can we prove it TODAY?!!! Let's not forget that early Theravadin and Mahayana Buddhism are non-violent religions and don't promote the concept of martial skill and power. It is basic Vinaya....Zen on the other hand is something different and already has strong Daoist influences. If gongfu was created to protect the Buddha's teachings, where are the accounts of these martial monks in Theravada Buddhism? Where are their martial monks, protectors of Skayamuni's teachings in India and Thailand today? Where can I go to see them? Was Bodhidharma so fond of the Chinese that he only wanted to protect Buddhism in China? Please use your simple logic instead of following something that someone else wrote, who is following something that someone else wrote. Forget the past. What can you prove TODAY! Right now, in this time of our living breath. That's the key. Shaolin was not the only temple whose inhabitants were "smart" enough to go high up Songshan and build. In fact the grotto-heavens were sacred locations long before any sort of Buddhist temples were established there, and this is a Daoist notion. What of all the other Buddhist temples around Shaolin? Did they also inherit gongfu and if they didn't, why not? Did you know that a lot of the monks who joined the Shaolin temple were just normal members of society and already had martial skills under their belt before entering...even before Bodhidharma arrived in China.... surely they shared some of their knowledge with the weakly monks... Did you know of all the martial artists who stayed at the Shaolin monastery that were never ordained? If you search through ancient Confucian history you will come across accounts of Buddhist monks who were drafted into armies and whom participated in military wars as early as 300 years after the death of Damo and even before... Trust me, it was not only to "protect" the Buddhas teachings..... Serving the emperor came with many valuable rewards. The type that would easily allow a monastery to quickly rise above all others and maintain the emperor's favour. Many Buddhist temples suffered due wars, political and religious interests. Why was only one temple given the means to protect itself and all other's neglected? How come White Horse Temple, the first official Buddhist temple in China never inherited gongfu from Damo? What's so special about the monks of Shaolin that only they were granted this? Why didn't any of the other fighting monks from other temples who safeguarded Buddhism also learn from Damo? What about Zhongyue temple that was also on Songshan? Boddhidarma didn't teach them gongfu also so they can protect themselves? Why did he discriminate them? Why did Shaolin monks fight for the emperor but the earlier established Zhongyue monks did not? Many of the monks who refused to fight were executed... Maybe the Shaolin monks picked up some tricks from the military during their interactions? Where are the accounts of the amazing fighting monks and protectors of the Buddha's teachings who battled against the Hun and the Muslim invasions in their own countries? Did they use their gongfu then? History tells a very different story. Thousands were slaughtered and 100s of temples were destroyed, and the peaceful silent sitting monks were murdered in cold blood. Many of the temples were already militarised way before Damo arrived... Why do some light themselves on fire while others fight and which one is the truth teaching of Buddha? Up till today the Buddhists sects still can't decide among themselves who has the true word of the Buddha and it's not very different in Taoism. It's always easy to copy and paste, but what about asking the real questions and questioning these "legends"? Because lets face it, all this is just legend... None of it is verified. How can we prove it today? What's the method? I prefer to ask and think about it than follow blindly. Finally, this thread is not about Shaolin, it is about Xiao Yao Pai, so I'd like to kindly ask you to continue the discussion elsewhere and keep the thread on topic and constructive or to please stop posting. Feel free to copy my posts if you wish to lead a discussion of them somewhere else. I probably don't have to remind you, but you always have the option to create your own thread and discuss these things there in detail without derailing our schools thread here. I think this will guarantee that the people who come here to learn about XYP will have relevant information to look forward to in the area of their interest; such that reflects the title on this thread; and not the disciplines of other schools, their traditions or their beliefs. Best wishes.