Zenshiite

Yeah. I live in Banks. Though I'm planning on moving back to Philadelphia next April. I'm also shy, so I'm not one to call his phone number or just show up to a class. Pretty lame. I should go. Hahaha.

Sifu Fong doesn't seem to answer his email, because I emailed him quite some time ago. I'm interested in checking out his I Chuan.

I've been straight edge ever since I heard about it, and before that I qualified but didn't have a name for it. Greatest thing I ever discovered... made me feel pretty good about myself and even "cool" when I thought I was a dork for not "partying" like everyone else in high school. By the time I hit college I was already straight edge and pretty damn proud of it. Ended up vegetarian, and later, vegan through straight edge and hardcore music. In fact, I found myself attracted to the Hardline movement within hardcore which came out of the earliest vegan and drug free bands: Vegan Reich and Raid, who themselves pretty much single handedly are responsible for the genesis of "vegan straight edge." You'll find on many points, if you do some research into the Hardline movement, that they were almost a syncretist group of Abrahamic religion and Taoism. In fact, the founder of Hardline and Vegan Reich is a lineaged ba gua teacher and a Shi'a Muslim. Through Hardline I became more interested in the study of both Taoism and the gnostic/mystical side of Islam. All that said, I'm not sure I'd equate straight edge with Taoism per say... but there is parity between the usual monastic lifestyle disciplines and parts of the straight edge and vegan straight edge lifestyle.

I think "submissive" has a certain ring to it in our culture that is unsavory, to say the least. There are certainly Taoist sects that encourage women to embrace surrender and a air of submissiveness. I thought the whole point of Tao was that yin, by it's very nature of being yielding, is able to overcome all things. You'd probably yield just that much more power over your husband by appearing to be submissive, and you may not even realize this. The White Tigresses certainly suggest that. Especially in the sexual relationship.

Saw the Force Trainer at Toys 'R Us yesterday with my son. Pretty cool. Best in the whole line of Star Wars Science toys.

It's my understanding that Shaolin monks pre-gungfu and even Taoist monks pre-gungfu weren't necessarily training in martial qigong in the first place. It would be no wonder they were wooped by bandits raiding the temples. However, martial qigong is going to play a hugely important role in gungfu and that's what the quote is relevant for. It's why an old man can still fight after his physical body has declined.

Most traditional religious/spiritual traditions have fairly clearly defined ideals of male and female roles that stretch right into the metaphysical. There's a good book called The Tao of Islam by Sachiko Murata that gets into the Islamic perspective on gender from the metaphysical to the human. I haven't read anything from Taoist sources that are as clearly defined as the Islamic relationships, but perhaps you direct me there. At any rate, there are obviously Taoist sources regarding sexual yoga that emphasize certain means of gender relationships especially in sex. Hsi Lai's White Tigress books certainly emphasize a sense of submissiveness and surrender on the part of woman in sexual relations in order for woman to awaken her sexuality and her spirituality to the fullest. Anyways, intersting topic. There are studies that suggest relationships with clearly defined divisions of labor tend to work out more and have more happiness than those that don't have clearly defined divisions of labor. My wife and I are striving to implement a more traditional Islamic conception of roles for spouses in our household, from the sexual to the rest. I'm actually surprised there's not more controversy with this whole line of discussion. But the discussion of how our metaphysical archetypes shape our roles in life is endlessly fascinating and is perhaps much more compelling than simply saying "accord with nature" when we have to get into a whole discussion about just what is this "nature" and how the metaphysical plays into that.

I think that's a fairly good description of pretty much ever religion, at the core of it. With the exception of Christianity, at least in my experience, which says we are quite literally born into sin. Islam, for instance, says that mankind has a tendency to be forgetful of Reality and only needs to remember(dhikr). Also, religious Taoists conceive of "metaphysical evil" as actually being deviated chi don't they? In the process of the ten thousand things coming to be something got tweaked somehow and some chi got a little messed up and that's how demons and what not came to be.

Neither do, just saying that particular website didn't offer anything to me that clarified the author's pedigree while avesta.org is much more informative and authoritative IMO.

The website you quoted doesn't make clear the author's spiritual pedigree... meanwhile, Avesta.org is run by Parsis still living and practicing the Zoroastrian traditions in India. Which is where I've gleaned most of my knowledge of Zoroastrianism from.

You have any tattoos? Piercings? Do martial arts? Hard qi gong?

Nope, Angra Mainyu/Ahriman is present in the Avesta. Zoroaster/Zarathustra taught that aspect.

I'm going to postulate that by the era of Jesus Gehenna had morphed from being a literal place where people were burned in sacrifice to Moloch or Ba'al to being a metaphysical place of punishment for such crimes. Gehenna was the most horrific place they could think of, PLUS it was very similar to what the Persia Zoroastrians talked about in their eschatology and cosmology and the Jews no doubt picked up on this at some point and integrated it. Just as the angelology of Judaism and Christianity is very similar to Zoroastrianism. Islam is in this same family. However, as a Muslim believer, from the start the Qur'an uses the Gehenna equivalent Jahannam to refer to a metaphysical Hell/infernal realm/state. I'm of the opinion that the early scribes of the Tanakh likely glossed over this aspect as they did a number of things. I'm inclined to accept Zoroaster as a prophet of God prior to many of, if not all, the Hebrew prophets and therefore in the long chain of prophets that Islam validates even when they go unnamed. Many Muslims, for instance, accept Confuscius and Lao Tzu as prophets. But I digress, it seems religious systems across the world have infernal states. Even "Underworlds" that are more like places all people go after death tend to be described in terms of infernal states rather than paradisal states. So, for instance, Greek mythology's Hades is chock full of people engaged in some kind of hardship or suffering as a kind of penance for things they did in life. The same is true of everything I've read about the Chinese Diyu. Have yet to come across a paradisal state, which seems to be limited to those who attain immortality. Very much like the Greeks' mythology where only very special people are granted immortality by the Olympians. Sheol is actually very similar to what I previously mentioned regarding the Barzakh in Islamic eschatology. It's the realm of the grave where one awaits the Day of Resurrection and Judgement, and could experience paradisal or infernal states there-in. This is especially true of Sheol's description in the Book of Enoch.

Don't know about chi, but I do know that there's some evidence that circumcision seems to have some effect in preventing the spread of HIV.

Diyu reminds me of the Islamic barzakh, which is the world of the grave that souls experience prior to the Resurrection, Day of Judgement and then either Paradise or Hellfire. There's also a corny old Shaw Brothers movie called Heaven and Hell that shows some of the stuff that's traditionally said to go on in Diyu. Also, check out this website Daoist Beliefs - Cosmogony - The Netherworld, they seem to draw from various sects of religious Taoism on that site.

Music is a complicated issue for me, especially since I have a great deal of love for punk, hardcore, oi!, and metal. It's a love/hate relationship really. There's alot of stuff out there that, lyrically, projects a very positive message in the form of righteous indignation and a sort of never give in attitude towards that which might bring you down. On the other hand, the aggressive music itself grates on the nerves, brings tension and can indeed induce one to be more angry. A fellow I recently began communicating with, who has a similar background in punk/hardcore and metal music, referred to much of modern popular(and underground) music in a novel way that I feel is pretty close to the mark. He referred to it as an allergic reaction to the world we live in and especially the state of our inner beings. Music can be transformative, positively and negatively, and the question is how much is too much and how much is something caustic and what makes it caustic? Do you want to listen to heavy metal that might convey a, for instance, radical environmentalist message? If so, how often and for how long? And how do you counter act any potential negative effects the anger inducing element of it might have? I usually counteract it with reggae and ska, and Sufi-inspired music. Preferably in larger doses than the metal.

Another thing, as an outsider so to speak, I think one would be somewhat accurate in describing Confucianism, Taoism, Mohism and even to a certain degree Chinese Buddhism as schools of thought within one ancient Chinese folk religion. As all, to the degree I've had access to their works, seem to operate off many of the same basic assumptions and foundational legends/myths.

Consider, if you will, the possibility of being anti-dogmatic and yet practicing rituals that many would consider "dogmatic." Sufis are reknowned for their ecstatic poetry that seems unorthodox to outsiders, and even the strict exoterics within the Islamic tradition, and their criticism of the exoteric clerical establishment... yet they are also well known for their devotions. Not only the required bare minimum prayers, fasting etc of a Muslim, but above and beyond that in the example of Muhammad and his household. Extra prayers, extra fasts, lots and lots of dhikr(invocation/remembrance). I think one might have to take this into account. The Taoism of Lao Tzu and Chuan Tzu didn't come from nowhere, especially since they were using terminologies and appealing to ancient Chinese legends that their philosopher peers of different schools were also using to hark back to an idyllic age. Confucianism lends itself very handily to "going through the motions" with no heart and no reflection. These are the kinds of things you see mystics and theosophers criticize in all cultures and religions. Is it not possible that Chuan Tzu was fully engaged in religious practices that would later become infused into what would become known as "Tao Jiao" while remaining critical of those that engage in similar practices without introspection, contemplation and true presence of heart/mind?

Obviously you're enlightened when you've got fortune cookies stuffed with your "proverbs."

You've confused ecstatic poetry with the life and practice of both men, and thus of all authentic Sufi masters. You are, in a word, mistaken. Rumi, in his Mathnawi, has numerous poems devoted to the necessity of the Shariah and the punishments mandated for certain crimes as well as his ecstatic utterances. You, sir, are remarkably ignorant about that which you profess to have knowledge of.

It doesn't even have to be Sufism or the science of 'Irfan(gnosis), though I'm a huge supporter of their spread or promotion based simply on the fact that it is gnosis('irfan or ma'arifah) that is the basis of any authentic spirituality and it is in gnosis that are the origins of Muhammad's spirituality and eventual task as Prophet and Messenger of God. Where I disagree is this notion that Sufis aren't concerned with strict rules, nothing could be further from the truth. Authentic Sufi masters and Sufi Orders, with respected intiatic chains of transmission, all hold that the very foundations of the inner spiritual path lie in conformity with the outer behaviors and disciplines. The traditional Sufi levels of attainment are first Shariat, Tariqat, Haqqiqah and Ma'arifat. What the Sufis do vis-a-vis the Shariah, and the examples they take from are Muhammad and especially Imam 'Ali, is temper justice with compassion. Just as God's Justice is tempered with His Compassion or Mercy. At any rate, there is nothing but positives to be gained for the entire world to remind Muslims that they need to turn their eye inward and examine their own faults before pointing out the faults of others. However, the same principle should be held for those that find themselves on the receiving end of radicalisms reactionary wrath and hatred... the West truly needs to turn their eyes inward and seek out there faults and come to a knowledge about what they(we, actually since I'm a convert and am just as much Western as I am a Muslim) have done or allowed to be done in their names that has sparked such wrath. The initial reaction is not "their religion is different from mine" but "they have done a grave injustice to me or my people" and that eventually becomes "they have done grave injustice to me and mine because their religion is different from mine." Muslims need to be reminded about traditional Islamic jurisprudence, and the compassion that has always accompanied the law. We also need not shy away from criticizing Muslim rulers of the past. Many of whom openly flouted the norms of Islamic behavior in both their personal lives, and their political lives. Unfortunately, in their political lives they attempted to justify their deviant political behavior via Islam, despite the fact that in many eras the ulama(scholars, clergy) openly disapproved of what they were doing. Let us not forget that in the past, as well as today, it was fellow Muslims that often faced much harsher tyranny and oppression than non-Muslims even in eras when non-Muslims were treated extremely well, holding high ministerial positions in the courts of Sultans and Caliphs and becoming quite wealthy. Any and all forms of Shi'ite and Sufi, and even philosophers, were oppressed by the ruling class in particular(even more so than most of the religious scholars, who at times were mere tools of the rulers) because their ideas were construed as challenging their authority. This began as early as a mere 20 years after Muhammad's death in the form of Mu'awiya's opposition to the caliphate of Imam 'Ali and the ritual cursing of 'Ali from the pulpits in mosques located in the territories Mu'awiya controlled. It's highly probable that Mu'awiya, after forcing him to abdicate his claim to the caliphate, bribed one of Hasan ibn 'Ali's(one of the beloved grandsons of the Prophet) wives to poison him. Mu'awiya's son Yazid continued this tradition when he attempted to force Hasan's brother Husayn to pledge allegiance to him, which eventually led to his murder(and 72 of his close companions, including all but one of his sons and nephews) on the plain of Karbala. An event that is still commemorated by Shi'ites all over the world on the 10th of Muharram. This oppression against the descendents of Muhammad continued with the rest of the lineage of Shi'a Imams, through 2 seperate dynasties. Wahhabi/Salafi sectarians are the legacy of Mu'awiya, founder of the Ummayyad dynasty, and the Abbasid dynasty. It should be no surprise the overwhelming majority of their victims are Muslims rather than non-Muslims.

Peace to all. My name is Dawud. I'm a Muslim, with an interest in the esoteric and Perennial Philosophy as a means of bridging gaps between religious groups and spiritualities. I've been reading Tao Teh Ching since I was maybe 15, I'm going on 30. And I practice Yi family "internal" Shaolin kung fu as well as the Liu Bin variant of Cheng style Ba Gua Zhang. I'm also vegan. I'll probably be a lurker around here mostly, but I look forward to participating from time to time.

^Hah. Yuck. I knew a guy that would just chill on his couch drinking Shou Wu Chi. He probably got a little bit tipsy from it.

Pact of Umar? There is a great deal of question regarding the validity of that attribution... though there is no doubt it was used by Muslims after the 8th century and attributed to Umar ibn al-Khattab, the second Sunni Caliph, despite it being in direct conflict with many many more reports of his good treatment of Christians and their places of worship, esp upon the conquest of Jerusalem. Here's a quick analysis of the pact, and it also points to other people who have likewise analyzed it in more detail: A Critical Study of the Pact of Umar Here's some additional commentary to that document: Comments on "A Critical Study of the Pact of Umar" Here is a wiki page regarding the treaty that Umar made with the Christians of Jerusalem: The Umari Treaty I must say, it's a strange thing for me to be exonerating Umar ibn al-Khattab of this accusation, as a Shi'a I consider him to have been the second of three usurpers of Imam 'Ali ibn Abi Talib's right to leadership of the Muslim community. Here is Imam 'Ali's letter to Muhammad ibn Abi Bakr when he appointed him governor of Egypt(which was largely Coptic Christian at the time): Nahj al-Balaghah Letter 27 Peace.

Shou Wu Chi is one of the worst tasting things I've ever had.