Ninpo-me-this-ninjutsu-me-that

lol, I kind of knew that, it was just a joke..... Oh well A7, no Barbados then, unpack ya speedo's.

You never know, if the electricity board charge by the volt you may be in for a serious rebate! I think they did it in the late seventies or eighties if I recall rightly...that's a lot of volts A7, you could go to Barbados or something. England. 20 volts doesn't make much difference either apparently Voltage thieves. Well, not in your case though. Great film.

....And so it came to pass that the under forties had some use after all....and they all lived happily ever after Sorry man, couldn't resist. You know how it is

The government changed it down to 220 Volts some years ago, they just didn't bother to tell anyone. I suspect it was because people would then ask for compensation for their broken toasters. A physics teacher told me that..... the volts part, not the toaster part.

Tao99 They don't..... unless they want to. Yes, it sounds dumb.... to a western mind, it still does to me sometimes. The problem is in the question and particularly the word 'reconcile'. They don't have a need to reconcile, unless they choose to. I know that is illogical and you don't need to tell me that, and any argument that involves logic as we understand it is simply an attempt to overlay one kind of thought process over another that basically doesn't fit. Here's an example using a different subject, political ideology, a conversation I've had on many an occasion goes something like this: Chinese: China is communist! Westerner: No it's not. C: What makes you say so? Everyone knows it. W: Well, China is more or less capitalist now. c: Oh, you mean two systems in one one country w: Those two systems are diametrically opposed, you cannot have one without it going against the ideology of the other. c: Yes you can. w: You can't, exactly how can you? it's not communism anymore! c: We do. w: !? But your missing the point, you have essentially one system with the odd communist bit thrown in for ideological/political good measure. c: So, it is two systems then. w: You CAN'T have that! It's illogical, it's either one or the other! c: But we do, see for yourself. w: It's not communism! c: Your right, it's Chinese communism, thanks for clearing up that point for me. w: I hate you. c : Me too, lets be friends. When foreigners first live in China they generally for the first year or so come to the conclusion that Chinese people must be stupid, totally illogical, then they either retain that opinion and keep going or leave, or they get to the next stage which is 'I'm stupid', after a while they then say to themselves 'It's so freeing not needing to quantify everything with western logic(unless it suits me to), it's true freedom'. Logic is a foundation western countries are based on, that's not to say the Chinese don't have logic....but it's a flexible logic...yes, I know, there is no such thing as flexible logic, but you try having a conversation with someone Chinese who hasn't really been exposed to western thinking to a great degree and make the point what they are saying is illogical and what you will get is this 'It's Chinese logic', Chinese logic has one very simple foundation/precept: 'I want it to be so, and so it is, until which time I decide otherwise if it is convenient or beneficial to me'(yes I know that's not logic, but once you've translated it into your own language and used it countless times with your own interpretation in place it becomes so, for them at least). Taomeow I should say having re-read my own post it comes off as a bit sarcastic, I didn't mean it to be so, I was actually laughing at the problems between the two ways of thinking and how they can never fit, one must be given up in order to accept the other. I was also reminded of your 'homer simpsons' thread, I have those conversations everyday...it used to drive me crazy, doctors, lawyers and civil 'self' servants all alike. No difference. Trying to argue with a western mind to an Asian mind can be totally fruitless, and exceptionally frustrating unless they have learnt how to adapt to a western way of thinking and/or you have just given up the western need to quantify and use logic. There's no way to really experience that thought process except to be within it and just give in to it. I honestly hope one day you will live in China, I know with commitments and such that may not be possible at this point, but age is not a factor were China is concerned, they would love you, anyone who loves Chinese culture and has as much knowledge of the intricacies of Daoism as you do they would love. But they would drive you nuts 1.3 billion Homer Simpsons Taomeow, 1.3 billion! To all, here's a conversation with my ex which more reflects the subjective/objective angle....and also some rather strange logic: Me: So what time should I meet you? Her: I'm doing the laundry. M: Ok, so what time will you leave? H: Its not done yet. M: I get it, what time will you be there? H: Where are you now? M: Huh? At home. H: What time are you leaving? M: !!? How can I know?! I don't know when your gonna be there. H: It's quite a lot. M: What is?! H: The laundry. M: How much exactly is quite a lot? H: I should have said it's the average amount actually. M: Average compared to what! I don't know how much you usually do, so how on earth can I judge the average to then guess the time you will leave!!!??? H: Why are you getting angry, that's not nice. M: I wanna know when you are leaving so I can arrive on time but you keep talking about the laundry! H: That's because I'm doing the laundry, and that effects the time I will leave. M: Ok, now we're getting somewhere! So what time do you think, 'roughly', you will be likely to finish the laundry? H: I wouldn't like to exactly say. M: Why!!!!!!??? H: Well, I have to get ready afterwards and that takes some time. M: So why didn't you say that in the first place! Why!? H: I don't know, I was doing the laundry when you phoned. M: *&^)*(*()_)(_)((**(&*))__$#......OK, SEE YOU THERE! H: OK, what time? You may imagine my ex to be a complete spanner, but I assure you, she's not, she's more intelligent(in my western opinion of intelligence)than most, and her language skills far exceed most others I have known here. It may also seem she was deliberately being annoying, but she wasn't. After that time I had to explain western logical thinking.....it was a mistake as then she deliberately started using it to mess with me Oh well. My bad. ps. sorry for my rather long post all.

1.3 billion Chinese must be quite misguided in their thought process then...how sad for them. As one told me about a couple of week ago he would be more than happy to practice Buddhism, Taoism and Christianity at the same time and sees no contradiction even if you did point them out to him. These contradictions only exist in the mind of westerners. I can't even begin to explain how the thought process works, it takes some years to 'get it' and when you do you will wish you hadn't. What you said.

You might be right there, I truly hope those two people you know can find the same strength.... if that's what they deem to be the correct way. Although I can agree with the general 'what's the point of pointing the finger' thing, I think things have gone too far already, and did a long time ago. I'm not convinced turning the other cheek in this respect in the right course of action, then again I can't exactly say that commenting on pictures of the pope would be either. The day he shops all the priests that have done these things instead of turning a blind eye is probably the day people will comment on his photo and say he is the direct contact of God on earth and how angelic he looks. I hope he does. I really do.

Yes, well, he is the head of a religion that has brushed the sexual abuse of thousands of children by its priests under the carpet so that might be something to do with it.

Exactly!!! So.... thats why I never go against my inspiration for women in short skirts! I sense great disharmony in you now Marblehead .... get back on that merry-go-round, you know you want to! They got metal chopsticks you know. Two birds, one stone.

I've always experienced this thing called Karma as 'choice', when Karma comes meandering along looking all innocent it's so attractive it's almost impossible not to choose it. There's a connection between karma and women in short skirts.

Haha I must be slow.

The catholic church can hardly criticize any form of pagan worship, check out the two embroidered images in the photo that was posted above(left and right upper shoulders).... I mean take a closer look, they got horns! One's Pan I'm not sure of the other, but it's most definitely not Christian! Catholicism, stealers of the knowledge. Is it only me that thinks Avatar wasn't that good? I mean yeah, nice special effects and all, but the story line left a lot to be desired.....could have done with shaving off about 20-30 minutes, I almost fell asleep(in 3D). I prefered Camerons film with the big boat.

Oh Apepch7 do pay attention in class! This was a long time ago..... he said lots and lots of 'F' words.....he was told to stand in the corner awhile and behav' but he couldn't contain himself any longer And now he's like Ferris Bueller in 'Ferris Buellers day off', only he gets a lot more time off.

The only person you banned!! Well now that just tops it! Not only does he get a nice holiday but he also gets a cult status as the only person you've ever banned!! Man.....this is so unfair.... Unhappy.

LOL

I gotta say the taxi drivers outside the train stations in China are a pain in the ass, the reason they wait there is so they can take you on an expensive magical mystery tour of the city because you're from out of town and(they hope)you don't know any better. Whenever I exit the station I go straight across the road and get one passing. Actually they can be exceptionally rude Cowtao, grabbing you and telling you there are no buses running and so on. Everyone in China agrees they are a pain in the ass except them and people with really heavy bags. The other taxi drivers are mostly all right though. 'Big up yourselves' decent taxi drivers! By the way Mal whatever happened to Findley? I'm still jealous he got sent on a 'holiday' as you put it, why is it all the naughty kids at school get to go on the best school trips. He's sunning himself somewhere nice and possibly tropical...... while I'm freezing my ass off, the lucky bas***d!!! I bet he got a real nice 'packed lunch' too... there's no justice in the world edit/ps: In one years time Drew you'll be able to post on the 'over forties' thread, there's a bonus if ever there was one! Happy birthday!

The point is you still want her, if you didn't you wouldn't want to contact her to show her you have changed. Depends if you wanna get back with her really. 3 months isn't really enough if you suffered a break down. It could send you back down the same path again if it doesn't go the way you want it to, which it probably won't. Sounds a bit harsh I know. But I don't mean it to. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Yes, we did rather make a pigs ear of the language when we created it . It's just not American friendly at all!! Incidentally, on a side note I had a friend who went over to your side of the Atlantic and he met with a guy, web designer with a degree, and he had already told him he was English and the guy then asked him "so anyway, how come you can speak such good English", so he figured the guy hadn't heard him before and he repeated that he was English and the guy said. "yeah I know, but how come your English is so good!?", he was really embarrassed when my friend had to say "well, we kind of invented the language you know', the guy really didn't know. He said he met several people in the U.S of A who were the same. Others have told me the same thing! It's amazing to me! My friend also said that the ones most up on worldly differences of culture and so on were soldiers and the police! 'Cos they were given training in such things! I can't say I've ever met an American outside of America who didn't know that, but I believe there's something like 80% of Americans who never own a passport in their life(I can't remember the exact statistic but it's around that mark). Is it common for people to not know where the language comes from?..... I'm not being silly, I'm genuinely interested.

Well, that's the base point I guess, whether it's your belief that without the brain a form of personality can exist. Since there is not a time I can remember when I didn't have a brain(except a few nights ago when I drank too much)I couldn't argue, nor would I really be inclined to. Many experiences I've had could be put into the context of 'brain phenomenon', I can't say I think it's that simple but that may very well be my desire for it not to be. I think ultimately the only true and useful point is if your practice or belief system enhances your life and leads to happiness. I can certainly see how your view could very much keep you in the here and now, and actually I could do with a bit more of that from time to time. It's easy to get a bit lazy or complacent when you believe in reincarnation or an after life. I will say this though Marblehead, if there is an after life I'm gonna hunt you down and say "Look at me, I got no brain!" I'm annoying like that. And don't be trying the "I have no brain with which to perceive what you just said, who am I? I don't know, bye bye."

Furthering thoughts: ! Blasto you are the racialist! Yes, my sentence and expressing is knowing! But the monkeys wrote shakespeare, left in the room a long time, historical and statistical fact is not your basis. Francis Bacon. There is the secret in that word. God knows it, sometimes. Christians, Muslims Buddhists and French people are all the same, it is known this is the case. My beard. Once there was Jesus, he came down from afar.... the crowed pirouetted(educationalistic word)and look at him, they said. THis is your logic!!! dO NOT SUPPLICATE ME!! I will not bend? Peace by peace your argument has been desecrated. No more!

That's as much as I can quote from your in quote response There must be a way but I don't know what it is! So I gotta kind of work from memory; anyway, I wouldn't beat yourself up too much, it's kind of a valid point that this is a Taoist forum, and a lot of us do come from different angles, and we are guilty of making a new religion called 'Buddao' .... The mind/matter situation....well, that's a bit messed up these days due to the old Newtonian laws of physics being (to some degree anyway)thrown out due to particle and quantum physics, whereby in various experiments scientists observed particles would follow the expectation of the observer, this broke down the Newtonian idea of a separation between mind and matter, it's something they can't quite understand so various theories are postulated. Most importantly is 'the wave/particle duality' where particles of matter were found to essentially not exist until they were being observed, they remained in what was called a 'hazy wave state' until observed then they would become physical(don't ask me man, I'm no scientist ). Most in spiritual circles then make the jump I guess that mind then creates matter, or at least directly effects it, so the whole bit about the observer being needed, a human mind or some kind of mind. It is a big jump to mind creates matter and the universe though..... but there does seem to be a scientific theory to it these days. As for the brain part and a brain being needed I guess this means you believe without an organic brain there is no mind? Is that right? So I would take it as absolute that for you there is no life after death...or at least no continuation of the personality? Then I gotta ask what is chi? And why can chi be manipulated/directed by the human mind? Would chi not be some kind universal energy, although without personality. To tell you the truth if your view is that you don't believe in a continuation of the personality after death but you still believe in chi and perhaps the energy within you goes and joins some other kind of energy/chi in the universe then your view is actually the same as millions of Chinese(to be frank). I have this same conversation with many here.... it surprised me greatly that many believed in chi and practiced qigong yet had no belief in the continuation of the personality. I don't know why... but it just did...took me a while to get my head around that one. So I guess my question is the life after death one, as in do we cease to be, as in a kind of personality? And what is chi in your view?

wow enouch.... just WOW. Thanks. That is a gem!

Naughty marblehead, making people feel they are not welcome.... that doesn't sound like you.... Isn't this question the same as the objective/subjective world question? You mentioned 'universal consciousness' above and that you don't subscribe to it, by universal consciousness do you mean essentially 'God' or something else? Otherwise it's difficult to discuss because I'm not sure what certain words mean to you. In answer to the above question in the quote I would say that there are many levels of consciousness and it's difficult to define which one your'e in unless you become conscious of another level and can kind of look backwards at the other. I still remember what it was to feel like a child, I can remember my level of consciousness and although at the time I couldn't have known, later as I grew, I knew how little I knew, yet, there was also something quite perfect in that, which I attempt to return to with the awareness intact... if that's possible in fact(I think/feel it is). I think there is a certain 'dream within a dream' thing going on, the brain has its functions but also acts as an inhibitor.... so I've seen you do believe in chi(surprised me actually), I probably shouldn't say believe, I should say experienced.... so there are some who say they can see chi, usually having got that ability through 'stopping the mind'....lowering the brain waves..... so I guess the question is can you consider that possible? If you can then it stands to reason the brain acts as some kind of inhibitor, covering up one level of 'the dream/reality'. edit/ps: my my, I just took a look at that thread...you have been busy

Don't get me started on marmalade!! Offensive chicken.....