Mark Foote

As to why the abandonment of intent, of "doing something" has a cooling effect (from a post of mine on another thread): That which we will, results in an object for the persistence of consciousness. "The object being there, there comes to be a station of consciousness." When "we neither will, nor intend to do, nor are occupied about something, there is no becoming of an object for the persistance of consciousness", and consciousness takes place freely, according to our nature: There can… come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence. (Common Ground) ... When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention can draw out thought initial and sustained, and bring on the stages of concentration: … there is no need to depend on teaching. But the most important thing is to practice and realize our true nature… [laughs]. This is, you know, Zen. (Shunryu Suzuki, Tassajara 68-07-24 transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) (Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages)

Sargant's "Battle for the Mind" clued me in to particular phenomena associated with religious experience, and religious conversion. My whole life since, I have aimed to have the first, without the second. Philosophy doesn't treat with the kind of religious experience associated with healing (and with conversion), so I haven't been interested in the subject. I'm not the one to judge the quality of Stanford's "Encyclopedia". For me, some experience is necessary to make sense of the teachings. Then a hell of a lot of work is necessary to apply the teachings to continue to have such experience in daily living, in the midst of a civilization that largely does not.

The definition of right view depends in part on the definition of wrong view; the definition of wrong view was given as follows: “There is no (result of) gift … no (result of) offering … no (result of) sacrifice; there is no fruit or ripening of deeds well done or ill done; there is not this world, there is not a world beyond; there is no (benefit from serving) mother and father; there are no beings of spontaneous uprising; there are not in the world recluses and brahmans… who are faring rightly, proceeding rightly, and who proclaim this world and the world beyond having realized them by their own super-knowledge.” (MN III 71-78, Pali Text Society III p 113-121) “Beings of spontaneous uprising” appears to be a reference to fairy-like beings that spring into existence without parents (several classes of fairy-like beings were believed to exist in Vedic folklore; see notes, SN III 249, Vol III pg 197). Right view, said Gautama, is twofold. First, there is the right view which is exactly the opposite of wrong view; this, however, is the view “that has cankers, that is on the side of merit, that ripens unto cleaving (to new birth)”. The right view which is “[noble], supermundane, cankerless and a component of the way” is: “Whatever … is wisdom, the cardinal faculty of wisdom, the power of wisdom, the component of enlightenment which is investigation into things, the right view that is a component of the Way in one who, by developing the [noble] Way, is of [noble] thought, conversant with the [noble] Way–this… is a right view that is [noble], cankerless, supermundane, a component of the Way.” (Ibid) (Making Sense of the Pali Canon: the Wheel of the Sayings, by yours truly) "There is fruit or ripening of deeds well done or ill done" would be right view "that has cankers, that is on the side of merit, that ripens unto cleaving (to new birth)”. Here's a dialogue where the brahmin Dona questions Gautama the Sakyan about would become of Gautama after death: "Then your worship will become a human being?" "No indeed, brahman, I'll not become a human being." ... "Who then, pray, will your worship become?" Brahmin, those asavas whereby, if they were not abandoned, I should become... a human being,--those asavas in me are abandoned, cut off at the root, made like a palm tree stump, made non-existent, of a nature not to arise again in future time. Just as, brahmin, a lotus, blue, red, or white, though born in the water, grown up in the water, when it reaches the surface stands there unsoiled by the water,--just so, brahmin, though born in the world, grown up in the world, having overcome the world, I abide unsoiled by the world. Take it that I am a Buddha, brahmin. (AN text ii, 37; iv, IV, 36; Pali Text Society AN II Book of Fours p 44) Much the same thing, 500 years later: Jesus said to His disciples: Make a comparison to Me and tell Me who I am like. ... Thomas said to Him: Master, my mouth will not at all be capable of saying whom Thou are like. Jesus said: I am not thy Master, because thou hast drunk, thou hast from the bubbling spring which I have measured out. (The Gospel According to Thomas, coptic text established and translated by A. Guillaumont, H.-CH. Puech, G. Quispel, W. Till and Yassah ‘Abd Al Masih, p 9 log. 13, ©1959 E. J. Brill) I realize I'm not actually answering your fundamental question, how did a belief in reincarnation become so widespread. I just wanted to point out, that the people I respect the most in the history of the world did not actually share in that belief, even though their followers may have. Gautama got so tired of Ananda asking him the fate of individuals who had perished, that he told Ananda to judge for himself based on how they lived their lives; a dodge if ever there was one.

Not wishing to wrongly grasp any snakes, I had to click away. The snake quote, according to the narrator of the video, is from Nagarjuna: There is unanimous agreement that Nāgārjuna (ca 150–250 CE) is the most important Buddhist philosopher after the historical Buddha himself and one of the most original and influential thinkers in the history of Indian philosophy. His philosophy of the “middle way” (madhyamaka) based around the central notion of “emptiness” (śūnyatā) influenced the Indian philosophical debate for a thousand years after his death; with the spread of Buddhism to Tibet, China, Japan and other Asian countries the writings of Nāgārjuna became an indispensable point of reference for their own philosophical inquiries. A specific reading of Nāgārjuna’s thought, called Prāsaṅgika-Madhyamaka, became the official philosophical position of Tibetan Buddhism which regards it as the pinnacle of philosophical sophistication up to the present day. (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/nagarjuna/) There are those who would argue Nagarjuna's teachings were those of the Gautamid, but I think he was "one of the most original... thinkers in the history of Indian philosophy".

Time passes, and I think I can better express now the heart of Gautama's teaching. Gautama’s teaching revolved around action, around one specific kind of action: …I say that determinate thought is action. When one determines, one acts by deed, word, or thought. (AN III 415, Pali Text Society Vol III p 294) “When one determines”—when a person exercises volition, or choice, action of “deed, word, or thought” follows. Gautama also spoke of “the activities”. The activities are the actions that take place as a consequence of the exercise of volition: And what are the activities? These are the three activities:–those of deed, speech and mind. These are activities. (SN II 3, Pali Text Society vol II p 4) Gautama claimed that a ceasing of “action” is possible: And what… is the ceasing of action? That ceasing of action by body, speech, and mind, by which one contacts freedom,–that is called ‘the ceasing of action’. (SN IV 145, Pali Text Society Vol IV p 85) He spoke in detail about how “the activities” come to cease: …I have seen that the ceasing of the activities is gradual. When one has attained the first trance, speech has ceased. When one has attained the second trance, thought initial and sustained has ceased. When one has attained the third trance, zest has ceased. When one has attained the fourth trance, inbreathing and outbreathing have ceased… Both perception and feeling have ceased when one has attained the cessation of perception and feeling. (SN IV 217, Pali Text Society vol IV p 146) (A Way of Living) The "cessation of ('determinate thought' in) feeling and perceiving" is the attainment associated with Gautama's enlightenment, that enlightenment being his insight into dependent causation. There are numerous listings of the chain of causation, which forms the second of the four truths, the cause of suffering--here's one: That which we will…, and that which we intend to do and that wherewithal we are occupied:–this becomes an object for the persistance of consciousness. The object being there, there comes to be a station of consciousness. Consciousness being stationed and growing, rebirth of renewed existence takes place in the future, and here from birth, decay, and death, grief, lamenting, suffering, sorrow, and despair come to pass. Such is the uprising of this mass of ill. Even if we do not will, or intend to do, and yet are occupied with something, this too becomes an object for the persistance of consciousness… whence birth… takes place. But if we neither will, nor intend to do, nor are occupied about something, there is no becoming of an object for the persistance of consciousness. The object being absent, there comes to be no station of consciousness. Consciousness not being stationed and growing, no rebirth of renewed existence takes place in the future, and herefrom birth, decay-and-death, grief, lamenting, suffering, sorrow and despair cease. Such is the ceasing of this entire mass of ill. (SN II 65, Pali Text Society SN Vol II pg 45) I think that ties in well with the teachings I quoted, regarding "determinate thought" as action (that which we will, intend to do, or are preoccupied with is action, and manifests in speech, deed, and thought). One more thing, and I think the picture is complete--here's a recap, from one of the posts on my site, followed by the relevant passage from the Pali sermons: “Birth, decay-and-death, grief, lamenting, suffering, sorrow and despair”—in some of his lectures, Gautama summarized “this entire mass of ill” by saying “in short, the five groups of grasping”. Grasping after a sense of self in connection with phenomena of form, feeling, mind, habitual tendency, or mental state is identically suffering, according to Gautama: (Response to “Not the Wind, Not the Flag”) “Birth is Ill, old age and decay, sickness, death, sorrow, grief, woe, lamentation, and despair are Ill. Not to get what one desires is Ill. In short, the five groups based on grasping are Ill.” (AN I 176, Vol I pg 160) That which we will, results in an object for the persistence of consciousness. "The object being there, there comes to be a station of consciousness." When "we neither will, nor intend to do, nor are occupied about something, there is no becoming of an object for the persistance of consciousness", and consciousness takes place freely, according to our nature: There can… come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence. (Common Ground) ... When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention can draw out thought initial and sustained, and bring on the stages of concentration: … there is no need to depend on teaching. But the most important thing is to practice and realize our true nature… [laughs]. This is, you know, Zen. (Shunryu Suzuki, Tassajara 68-07-24 transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) (Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages)

stratospheric ghosts skeletons in the closet red suits in chimneys

Two things stand out for me in that video: 15:13, where he says "developing the dan-t'ien, which isn't that straight-forward a thing", and 20:15, "that building of the ch'i, which is the time-consuming bit to be honest". So there you have it. All you need to do is develop the dan-t'ien, which isn't that straightforward a thing, and build the ch'i, which is the time-consuming bit. Took him 22 minutes--he's kind of thick, or dense, that way. Ha ha. Kidding, Damo. I actually agree with him, although my sitting is kind of crooked and my Tai-Chi is pathetic. I guess he's trying to motivate people to practice a stationary practice. You'd rather just do that barrel-hug, without the barrel?

In eastern philosophy, a mind full of desires is likened to that of a slave in the sense that the person is manipulated by his desires unconsciously even against his discretion and free will. So a citizen enjoying political freedom, but filled with numerous desires and lacking self-mastery and contentment , is not free or enjoying freedom in the real sense of the term. Gautama’s teaching revolved around action, around one specific kind of action: …I say that determinate thought is action. When one determines, one acts by deed, word, or thought. (AN III 415, Pali Text Society Vol III p 294; emphasis added) “When one determines”—when a person exercises volition, or choice, action of “deed, word, or thought” follows. Gautama also spoke of “the activities”. The activities are the actions that take place as a consequence of the exercise of volition: And what are the activities? These are the three activities:–those of deed, speech and mind. These are activities. (SN II 3, Pali Text Society vol II p 4) Gautama claimed that a ceasing of “action” is possible: And what… is the ceasing of action? That ceasing of action by body, speech, and mind, by which one contacts freedom,–that is called ‘the ceasing of action’. (SN IV 145, Pali Text Society Vol IV p 85; emphasis added) He spoke in detail about how “the activities” come to cease: …I have seen that the ceasing of the activities is gradual. When one has attained the first trance, speech has ceased. When one has attained the second trance, thought initial and sustained has ceased. When one has attained the third trance, zest has ceased. When one has attained the fourth trance, inbreathing and outbreathing have ceased… Both perception and feeling have ceased when one has attained the cessation of perception and feeling. (SN IV 217, Pali Text Society vol IV p 146) (A Way of Living) The "cessation of ('determinate thought' in) feeling and perceiving" is the cessation associated with the experience I described in my previous post, where the cankers find an end. Now I think we arrive at the crux of the matter. There's sensual desire, and there's desire for abiding in the trance states, which from the above one might assume to be an appropriate and beneficial desire to have. Gautama found both desires a cause of suffering. The trance states, he said, are attained through lack of desire, by means of lack of desire. That's also why Gautama spoke of right view, right purpose, and right effort “that has cankers, that is on the side of merit, that ripens unto cleaving (to new birth)”, and right view, right purpose, and right effort which is “[noble], supermundane, cankerless and a component of the way” (MN III 71-78, Vol III pg 113-121). Depending on whether you had the benefit of "perfect wisdom", or not. Not possible to cease the exercise of "determinate thought" that gives rise to action by the exercise of "determinate thought", that's why Gautama chose his words carefully, and why Zen in some traditions emphasizes transmission outside of scripture. But usually in counting breathing or following breathing, you feel as if you are doing something, you know– you are following breathing, and you are counting breathing. This is, you know, why counting breathing or following breathing practice is, you know, for us it is some preparation– preparatory practice for shikantaza because for most people it is rather difficult to sit, you know, just to sit. (“The Background of Shikantaza”; Shunryu Suzuki, Sunday, February 22, 1970, San Francisco; transcript from shunryusuzuki.com)

The experience that gave rise to Gautama's enlightenment: …[an individual] comprehends thus, ‘This concentration of mind … is effected and thought out. But whatever is effected and thought out, that is impermanent, it is liable to stopping.’ When [the individual] knows this thus, sees this thus, [their] mind is freed from the canker of sense-pleasures and [their] mind is freed from the canker of becoming and [their] mind is freed from the canker of ignorance. In freedom is the knowledge that [one] is freed and [one] comprehends: “Destroyed is birth, brought to a close the (holy)-faring, done is what was to be done, there is no more of being such or so’. [They] comprehend thus: “The disturbances there might be resulting from the canker of sense-pleasures do not exist here; the disturbances there might be resulting from the canker of becoming do not exist here; the disturbances there might be resulting from the canker of ignorance do not exist here. And there is only this degree of disturbance, that is to say the six sensory fields that, conditioned by life, are grounded on this body itself.” (MN III 108-109, Pali Text Society III p 151-152) So, cankers having to do with desire/aversion, becoming, and ignorance--three cankers.

The topic was started by our wonderful friend in the Dao, exorcist_1699, and I contributed to it. Confucianism is one of the most misunderstood Chinese philosophical schools in the West. I decided to investigate it in 2000 and I am glad that I did, it provides a useful framework, and actually complimented my years of studying and practicing Ritual Daoism and Western magic. I hope that you find the discussion and my contribution to it interesting and more importantly, useful. ZYD I did find that thread interesting, very interesting! Gautama taught his way of living, which included thought initial and sustained with regard to the cessation of "determinate thought" in action, thought both in connection with inhalation and in connection with exhalation. Most likely that thought regularly segued into the cessation of "determinate thought" in the activity of the body in inhalation and exhalation, since he appears to have set that particular cessation up regularly in his practice. That cessation takes place in the fourth of the initial concentrations. There are further states of concentration, and Gautama associated them with “the excellence of the heart’s release” through particular extensions. The first of the further states was “the infinity of ether”. Gautama identified the state with “the excellence of the heart’s release” through the extension of “the mind of compassion”. He described a particular method for the extension of the mind of compassion, a method that began with the extension of “the mind of friendliness”: [One] dwells, having suffused the first quarter [of the world] with friendliness, likewise the second, likewise the third, likewise the fourth; just so above, below, across; [one] dwells having suffused the whole world everywhere, in every way, with a mind of friendliness that is far-reaching, wide-spread, immeasurable, without enmity, without malevolence. [One] dwells having suffused the first quarter with a mind of compassion… with a mind of sympathetic joy… with a mind of equanimity that is far-reaching, wide-spread, immeasurable, without enmity, without malevolence. (MN I 38, Pali Text Society Vol I p 48) The second of the further states (“the infinity of consciousness”) Gautama identified with “the excellence of the heart’s release” through the extension of “the mind of sympathetic joy”, and the third (“the infinity of nothingness”) he identified with “the excellence of the heart’s release” through the extension of “the mind of equanimity”. (Appendix–From the Early Record) What I can say is that in my experience, zazen does not get up and dance without the extension of at least the mind of friendliness to folks on the other side of the room and on the other side of the wall. Sitting shikantaza is the place itself, and things. …When you sit, the cushion sits with you. If you wear glasses, the glasses sit with you. Clothing sits with you. House sits with you. People who are moving around outside all sit with you. They don’t take the sitting posture! (“Aspects of Sitting Meditation”, “Shikantaza”; Kobun Chino Otogawa; http://www.jikoji.org/intro-aspects/) The truth is, there's a good reason to have one's ducks in a row, which I mentioned previously: whatever I believe in my heart of hearts can become the source of my action, with or without volition. And the way to the cessation of "determinate thought" in feeling and perceiving, or to freedom in the place of occurrence of awareness in general, is through the excellence of the heart's release in the extension of the mind of friendliness, of the mind of compassion. I believe these excellences are also the mark of people who truly believe they should treat others as they would want to be treated themselves, moral people.

I'll bet. I know of Jiyu Kennet and Shasta Abbey, but that's about it. Good article dated 2013 here, under the paragraph by the Rinpoche: https://www.tsemrinpoche.com/tsem-tulku-rinpoche/great-lamas-masters/why-are-roshi-jiyu-kennett’s-disciples-so-reclusive.html That was originally published on sweepingzen.com, but that site no longer exists. Kensho is for me a funny idea, in so far as all the kensho experiences I've ever heard described have very little to do with Gautama's descriptions of his practice in the Pali sermons. I also like the idea of mixed monastic communities and married practitioners, and I think the teachers who came from Japan in the sixties demonstrated that being married and having kids does not necessarily preclude the serious practice of Zen. That definitely is contrary to Gautama's teaching, but I am more interested in what Gautama had to offer with regard to concentration and a way of living than I am with enlightenment and what he felt enlightenment must necessarily entail.

"Western magical training"? Have you ever read Battle for the Mind? Fascinating exploration of the mechanics of religious conversion and brainwashing, read it when I was 10. Voodoo possession, among his topics.

I played with suggestion in my teens, both with others and with myself as subject. I was introduced by a friend to the Santa Cruz Zen Center, in Santa Cruz, California, in college. Kobun Chino Otogawa, whom Shunryu Suzuki brought from Japan to help start the Tassajara monastery, lectured in Santa Cruz once a week for awhile in the early '70's. In the mid-70's, I was living in San Francisco, attending practice at the Zen Center when I could and sitting by myself mornings and evenings. One day I determined that I would attempt to be aware of each inhalation and exhalation as it occurred. In the afternoon, I was sitting behind my desk in my room in the Panhandle, when my body got up and walked to the door. A classic case of action through hypnotic suggestion, except that I had no intention to get up and walk to the door. Years later, Kobun lectured at the San Francisco Zen Center, and he closed his lecture by admonishing the Zen students in attendance with the words, "you know, sometimes zazen gets up and walks around." Meanwhile, I had been trying to make all my actions come from the place that my action had come from that day in the Panhandle. I discovered I could only act from that place in short stretches, and ultimately I realized that whatever I truly believed could also become the source of my action, seemingly in the same detached, hypnotic fashion. As it turns out, Gautama the Buddha's way of living was anchored by "the contemplation of cessation of ('determinate thought' in the activity of the body in) inhalation and exhalation". He would apparently meditate regularly to the experience of "the cessation of inhalation and exhalation", take an overview of the body ("the survey-sign" of the concentration), and then utilize the sign in a rhythm of mindfulness that was his daily life. "Most of the time", and "especially in the rainy season." The missing piece for me was "one-pointedness". They mention focused attention in the Wikipedia history you linked. The trick is that "one-pointedness" in Gautama's teaching is the apprehension of the location of awareness, not the object. Although attention can be directed to the movement of breath, necessity in the movement of breath can also direct attention, as I wrote previously: There can… come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence. (Common Ground) There’s a frailty in the structure of the lower spine, and the movement of breath can place the point of awareness in such a fashion as to engage a mechanism of support for the spine, often in stages (see A Way of Living). ... When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention can draw out thought initial and sustained, and bring on the stages of concentration: … there is no need to depend on teaching. But the most important thing is to practice and realize our true nature… [laughs]. This is, you know, Zen. (Shunryu Suzuki, Tassajara 68-07-24 transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) (Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages) Yes, fascinating history there, thanks. Interesting to read that Freud seemingly got his start with hypnosis.

I remember back in the '80's, friends gave me a video of an Aikido master throwing a student without contact. I remember, when the first videos of Aikido masters in the ring with boxers and mixed martial artists came out, on the internet. Not pretty. I'm not saying that there isn't some truth to what goes on in the video, and I confess that I couldn't watch more that the first set of examples before my history with the Aikido videos kicked in and I couldn't watch any more (for wishing to see this guy demonstrate his teaching in the ring with someone). I will say that although I do believe that there's a mechanism for fascial support of the spine that can kick in, and allows for the kind of power at extremity that Bruce Lee demonstrated, I would say that the engagement of that mechanism is dependent on the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention and a presence of mind as the placement of attention shifts. That's how shen circulates, collects, and moves chi, IMHO. I can dance, but I think if I tried to punch somebody, I'd break my fist. Meanwhile: The psychotherapist Milton Erickson held that trance is an everyday occurrence for everyone. Getting lost in a train of thought, or absorbed in an athletic endeavor, he described as examples of trance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_H._Erickson). In his practice, Erickson regularly invited his clients to enter into trance, out of regard for the benefit of the client. That a client entered into trance in response to such an invitation, Erickson viewed as a result of the unconscious decision of the client, quite outside of Erikson’s control. Erickson was famous for what came to be called “the confusion technique” in the induction of hypnosis, and in particular for his “handshake induction”. By subtly interrupting someone in the middle of the expected course of an habitual activity, like shaking hands, Erickson enabled them to enter a state of trance. For Erickson, the confusion technique could also be applied through engaging the patient’s mind with a sentence whose meaning could not be found through the normal interpretation of the words and syntax (engaging the patient’s mind in a transderivational search)... The induction of trance serves to heighten the experience of the senses (a fact that Erickson noted)... (Fuxi's Poem, by yours truly)

The "foggy sea-bottom" point? Love those descriptions!

That is a kind of strength which you will gain by your tummy here. When your mind is here or here, you know, it means you are entertaining them (images in the mind). If your mind is here, you are not concern—concerned too much about the image you have in your mind. So, try to keep right posture, with some power in your tummy. ("Practice Zazen With Your Whole Mind And Body", Shunryu Suzuki Transcript, Friday, September 8, 1967) You are right that Gautama never mentions the "hara", he doesn't deal much with anatomy apart from the cemetary contemplations. Nevertheless, in the description of the feeling of the first concentration (gathering the "bath-ball", which I quoted previously), he does mention that the ball is gathered in a copper basin. Is there a feeling to match his description, does the mind which is "here and here" settle in an area that feels like a basin? Hmmm? Chadwick finds it demeaning, that Mr. Suzuki referred to the hara as the "tummy" for his Western students. What is expressed in this sutra is a very daily thing, but not an ordinary thing. “Maha Prajna Paramita” is “great, complete wisdom.” Maha means “no exception, complete.” Right inside your skin this prajna fully exists. So the first thing is, we have to prepare to feel this sutra, not use our brain to understand it. ... When we are dreaming in very deep sleep, we have no sense of, “I am dreaming this.” Everything is so real we do not doubt it until someone makes a sound and we wake up. Then we wonder, “Where am I?” waking up from the dream to so-called “reality.” ("Kobun's Talks on the Heart Sutra", edited by Angie Boissevain and Judy Cosgrove; emphasis added) When I find my place where I am, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point. The idea is to "make self-surrender the object of thought", such that "determinate thought" in action simply ceases--first in speech, then in deed, and finally in mind: …I say that determinate thought is action. When one determines, one acts by deed, word, or thought. (AN III 415, Pali Text Society Vol III p 294) And what are the activities? These are the three activities:–those of deed, speech and mind. These are activities. (SN II 3, Pali Text Society vol II p 4) …I have seen that the ceasing of the activities is gradual. When one has attained the first trance, speech has ceased. When one has attained the second trance, thought initial and sustained has ceased. When one has attained the third trance, zest has ceased. When one has attained the fourth trance, inbreathing and outbreathing have ceased… Both perception and feeling have ceased when one has attained the cessation of perception and feeling. (SN IV 217, Pali Text Society vol IV p 146) Herein… the (noble) disciple, making self-surrender the object of (their) thought, lays hold of concentration, lays hold of one-pointedness. (The disciple), aloof from sensuality, aloof from evil conditions, enters on the first trance, which is accompanied by thought directed and sustained, which is born of solitude, easeful and zestful, and abides therein. (SN v 198, Pali Text Society vol V p 174; “noble” substituted for Ariyan; emphasis added) When I find my place where I am, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point. No "seeing through" anything. Seeing through the identification of self in the skandhas helps with "making self-surrender the object of thought"--it's not laying hold of "one-pointedness". Right before falling asleep, that's one-pointedness. Meanwhile: No ignorance and also no extinction of it, and so forth until no-old-age-and-death and also no extinction of them; No suff’ring, no origination, no stopping, no path; No cognition, also no attainment. Helpful to me in making self-surrender the object of thought: When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention can draw out thought initial and sustained, and bring on the stages of concentration. (Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages; emphasis added) In Glenhaven, or Clearlake? Glenhaven would be across from Konocti, as in the picture below--most of my pictures are from Lucerne, which is farther north on the Glenhaven side of the lake.

It's not YOUR mind that chooses where attention goes. You don't OWN a mind and never have. This is an experiment to show that where attention is, MIND (awareness) is. It is not in your control. You do not direct attention... it is not YOUR will about what happens, but the will of the dharmakaya/unity/enlightened mind. Letting go of the idea that YOU are in charge of what comes to the focus of awareness IS a way in. Well, Mr. stirling! We agree. You might have at least given him "sensei". The delusion is that these are separate parts. There AREN'T any parts. Zazen is the fabric of everything when it is seen and actualized in this moment. There ARE no moving parts when Zazen is realized in its wholeness. A breath taken is the entirety of Zazen breathing in... a breath out is the entirety of Zazen breathing out. NO separation. You dropped the attribution, there, but I've added it. Not my statement, Shunryu Suzuki's. Well. Turning the world instead of being turned by the world happens, I'll agree. You might actually like my latest piece, stirling--Shunryu Suzuki talking about "doing something" as "preparatory practice", so "following the breathing" is not to be confused with the experience of "just sitting". He also talked about the first three concentrations practiced by Theravadin Buddhists as "preparatory practice", not to be confused with the actual first three concentrations. I think it's a good point. What's happening when I sit down is most often not what's happening when I get up again. I don't try to carry on what's happening before I get up as I go about my daily life, except as a touchstone. I'm reassured that Gautama described a way of living that involved only "one-pointedness" and thoughts initial and sustained, which he said was his own way of living before and after enlightenment (as the bodhisattva, and "the Tathagatha's way of living"). At the same time, his "one-pointedness" was accompanied by the suffusion of feelings of zest and ease throughout the body. That's the trick, the juxtaposition: … just as a handy bathman or attendant might strew bath-powder in some copper basin and, gradually sprinkling water, knead it together so that the bath-ball gathered up the moisture, became enveloped in moisture and saturated both in and out, but did not ooze moisture; even so, (a person) steeps, drenches, fills, and suffuses this body with zest and ease, born of solitude, so that there is not one particle of the body that is not pervaded by this lone-born zest and ease. (AN III 25-28, Pali Text Society Vol. III pg 18-19, see also MN III 92-93, PTS pg 132-134) One-pointedness of the (involuntary) placement of attention, simultaneous with the gravity of feeling throughout the body. It's "doing something", a preparatory practice, but there is a real first concentration wherein thought initial and sustained occurs, along with a "one-pointedness" in the placement of awareness coupled with a gravity of feeling such that there is "not one particle of the body that is not pervaded". That was Gautama's way of living, he did not live in the cessation of inhalation and exhalation (4th concentration) nor in the cessation of feeling and perceiving (although his actions were tempered, evidently, by the conditioned genesis he realized in the cessation of feeling and perceiving). He lived in the first concentration, though not as a preparatory practice. When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention can draw out thought initial and sustained, and bring on the stages of concentration: … there is no need to depend on teaching. But the most important thing is to practice and realize our true nature… [laughs]. This is, you know, Zen. (Shunryu Suzuki, Tassajara 68-07-24 transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) (Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages) Interesting, but not Zen OR Tripitaka. I wouldn't advise anyone get lost in there. No, I wouldn't advise it either, not unless there's no choice. Took me 20 years after zazen got up and walked around before I realized I would have to do some research. But it all comes down to: When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention can draw out thought initial and sustained, and bring on the stages of concentration We agree again. We have to stop meeting like this. … “Shikantaza not here,” he insisted in elementary English, pointing to his head. “Not here,” he continued, pointing to his heart. “Only point here!” He drove his fist into his lower belly, the energy center that the Japanese call hara. (“Two Shores of Zen: An American Monk’s Japan”, Jiryu Mark Rutschman-Byler, pg 4-5; quoting Harada Tangen Roshi) I know, Rinzai not Soto, but you can't say it's not Zen. Jiryu Mark's conclusions about his experience in Japan are interesting: People may think that all of my “No Zen in the West” and all of my ranting about ”spineless American Zen” with it’s ”pop-psychology and free-flowing peanut butter” add up to a Jiryu who’d basically rather be in Japan. A Jiryu who is suspicious if not convinced that Western Buddhism has moved so fast ahead that the Buddhism part got left behind. A Jiryu looking backwards. ... So why do I keep bringing it up? Why do I keep mentioning Japan? Why do I dwell on the austere clarity of the practice there? Why do I keep turning over and struggling with the wrenching insults I heard (and sometimes offered) to our Western practice? Why don’t I get over it and get on with it? Hasn’t most everyone else in California Zen? ... it strikes me that to lose touch with where we’ve come from is to lose touch with the fact that we are creating something completely new, completely unprecedented, in what we call “Western Dharma.” I’m looking backwards to look forwards. I don’t just want to “get over” monastic-style practice – I want to understand how it illuminates lay life. I don’t want to just ”get over” hierarchy – I want to understand how to organize institutions respectfully in a truly American way. I don’t want to just “get over” harsh training – I want to study what it really takes to soften and open a heart. So I don’t believe that Zen hasn’t arrived, but I don’t believe that it has either. Precisely here in this middle, we find the incredible creative energy and work of our time and place. Let’s not get lazy and lean too far either way. If we think we’ve landed, we’re just stuck; if we think we’ve missed, we’re just lost. ("No Zen in the West", Zen in the West?, Jiryu Mark Rutschman-Byler) "I want to understand how it illuminates lay life"--me too! We disagree. Ah, I knew it was too good to last! Gautama speaks of casting away the notion of an abiding self in body, feelings, mind, habitual tendencies, and mental state, seeing things instead as they really are "by means of perfect wisdom". How that perfect wisdom is attained--I can only assume, through the experience of the cessation of "determinate thought" in feeling and perceiving. When a man is driving a cart, if the cart doesn't go, should he beat the cart or beat the horse? (Nan-yueh, from "Lancet of Seated Meditation" by Dogen, tr Carl Bielefeldt "Dogen's Manuals of Zen Meditation" p 194) He should beat something if the cart doesn't go, right? Or maybe attend to the relaxed, calm, detached placement of awareness from moment to moment, and at the same time extend feeling with gravity throughout the body so that awareness can take place freely. I have faith when I see reason to have faith in my experience. Same as you, I'm sure. Clear Lake.

As to who he is: Koun Franz Koun Franz was born in Helena, Montana, but has spent a good deal of his adult life in Japan. He was ordained in 2001, then trained at Zuioji and Shogoji monasteries. From 2006 to 2010, he served as resident priest of the Anchorage Zen Community in Alaska. Koun is married to Tracy Franz—they now live with their two kids in Canada (Halifax, Nova Scotia), where he leads practice at Zen Nova Scotia. Articles by Koun Franz on Lion's Roar. What Koun Franz was talking about, when he said "I recommend trying it, sitting in this posture and trying to feel what it’s like to let your mind, to let the base of your consciousness, move away from your head": Sometimes when you think that you are doing zazen with an imperturbable mind, you ignore the body, but it is also necessary to have the opposite understanding at the same time. Your body is practicing zazen in imperturbability while your mind is moving. (“Whole-Body Zazen”, lecture by Shunryu Suzuki at Tassajara, June 28, 1970 [edited by Bill Redican], transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) But tell me, what is the most essential place? How is effort applied? (Yuanwu, “The Blue Cliff Record”, Case 55, tr. Cleary and Cleary) Be aware of where you really are 24 hours a day. You must be most attentive. (“Zen Letters: the Teachings of Yuanwu”, trans. T. Cleary, pg 53) When you find your place where you are, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point. (“Genjo Koan”, Dogen, tr. by Tanahashi) I don't believe they're talking about samsara, so we disagree on that. "When you find your place where you are, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point"--practice occurs when I find my place where I am, when I find my way at this moment. "No-one NEEDS to find their way"--I would say there's a necessity that is exposed in the movement of breath, that has to do with the structure of the spine: Moshe Feldenkrais described the reason that many people hold their breath for an instant when getting up out of a chair: The tendency to hold one’s breath is instinctive, part of an attempt to prevent the establishment of shearing stresses or forces likely to shift the vertebrae horizontally, out of the vertical alignment of the spinal column that they constitute. (“Awareness Through Movement”, Moshe Feldenkrais, p 83) Holding one’s breath retains pressure in the abdomen. Medical researcher D. L. Bartilink remarked on the utility of a “tensed somatic cavity” in support of the spine: Animals undoubtedly make an extensive use of the protection of their spines by the tensed somatic cavity, and probably also use it as a support upon which muscles of posture find a hold… (“The Role of Abdominal Pressure in Relieving the Pressure on the Lumbar Intervertebral Discs”, J Bone Joint Surg Br 1957 Nov;39-B(4):718-25. doi: 10.1302/0301-620X.39B4.718. 1957) However, Bartilink noted that pressure in the abdominal cavity need not restrict the diaphragm: … Breathing can go on even when the abdomen is used as a support and cannot be relaxed. (ibid) ... There’s a frailty in the structure of the lower spine, and the movement of breath can place the point of awareness in such a fashion as to engage a mechanism of support for the spine, often in stages (A Way of Living) All of that just to say, it's not the movement of breath per se that is the necessity, although certainly there is a necessity to the movement of breath (see The Case of the Suffocating Woman). More like, because of the movement of breath, a necessity arises with respect to the physical integrity of the body, and with appropriate self-surrender that necessity can place attention in such a manner as to engage support. My role is like falling asleep, in many respects, but that falling asleep is a kind of waking up. Gautama said: And I… at the close of (instructional discourse), steady, calm, make one-pointed and concentrate my mind subjectively in that first characteristic of concentration in which I ever constantly abide. (MN I 249, Pali Text Society vol I p 303) Maybe that first characteristic was thought initial and sustained in the four arisings of mindfulness, in particular in the thoughts that he characterized as his way of living "most of the time". "... Those people bring awareness to as many moments of their day as they can"--I think it's an openness to the experience of necessity that brings pointed awareness, that's the direction I'm moving. I know I can talk myself blue in the face, but--not a realization, not a comprehension, not an insight, not an understanding--an experience. The experience of cessation in inhalation and exhalation pierces the "latent conceits that 'I am the doer, mine is the doer' with regard to this consciousness-informed body", no amount of insight does that piercing. I'll disagree, respectfully. I value and appreciate what the teachers in the various lineages bring. As I said, Gautama's way of living is no small thing, and I would say Gautama's way of living hinges on a cessation of "determinate thought" in the activity of the body in inhalation and exhalation. Enlightenment requires the cessation of "determinate thought" in feeling and perceiving, that's a whole other experience.

I would disagree with all four of the opinions offered as definitions of "one-pointedness" on that Wikipedia page. They are talking about a singular object of attention--koun Franz referred to that as the positive version of navel gazing. Was koun Franz just kidding, when he spoke of allowing the mind to move away from the head? Why did Dogen write, "when you find your place where you are"? Doesn't everybody know the place where they are, right now? Why should they need to "find their way at this moment"? If mind and body are dropped, where is the place where I am? That's the "one-point" of "one-pointedness", in my experience. "Rest in the nature of mind without an object", I'll agree with that. But, with the mind quiet and still? Where is your mind, when your mind is quiet and still? I would say, yes and no. When the fundamental point is actualized, there's practice, and the cessation of "doing something" that is shikantaza. That's mostly what people regard as enlightenment, as far as I can tell. What I read about in the Pali sermons is a cessation of "doing something" in feeling and perceiving, and a consequent insight in to the conditioned genesis of suffering. I relate to the conditioned genesis that Gautama expounded, I definitely have lost "latent conceits that 'I am the doer, mine is the doer' with regard to this consciousness-informed body", but understanding is not the experience of the cessation of "doing something" in feeling and perceiving. It's the clear action of mind in the absence of habit or volition that constitutes the experience underlying enlightenment, at least that's my reading of the sermons--I can't say that I've had the experience, and I venture to surmise neither has Ian, but the experience he has had is sufficient to live Gautama's way of living, if I understand it. In Zen, what's important is to transmit the experience of a cessation of "doing something" in the action of the body (not the full Monty)--for that transmission, the Zen tradition famously doesn't rely on words: The difficulty is that most people will lose consciousness before they cede activity to the location of attention–they lose the presence of mind with the placement of attention, because they can’t believe that action in the body is possible without “doing something”... (Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages) I agree that taking in the whole field and being present is the most of it. What I find is: When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention can draw out thought initial and sustained, and bring on the stages of concentration. (ibid) That is to say, Gautama's mindfulness, and the states of concentration he experienced, were the result of "the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention". That's the beauty of it, to me.

Sort of like: Shitou’s Record (Sekito Kisen, eighth century) (translated by Francis Cook) You must realize that the substance of your own mind is beyond annihilation and eternity, and its nature is beyond purity and impurity. Deep and complete, it is the same in sages and ordinary people. It responds freely, and differs from ordinary (dualistic) mind in its various functions. The triple world and the six paths (of samsara) appear spontaneously as nothing but Mind. How can the reflection of the moon in water, or the shapes reflected in a mirror, originate or cease to be? If you can understand this, there is nothing you lack. (All Buddhas and All Living Beings are Just This One Mind Teachings of the Buddhas and Zen Ancestors on Buddha Nature, Empty Awareness, and Nonduality Compiled by Kokyo Henkel)

"The fundamental point" is "one-pointedness of mind", a presence of mind with the placement of attention as the placement of attention shifts and moves (or doesn't!). That presence allows action to be relinquished, "actualizing the fundamental point". From a lecture by koun Franz: Okay… So, have your hands in the cosmic mudra, palms up, thumbs touching, and there’s this common instruction: place your mind here. Different people interpret this differently. Some people will say this means to place your attention here, meaning to keep your attention on your hands. It’s a way of turning the lens to where you are in space so that you’re not looking out here and out here and out here. It’s the positive version, perhaps, of ‘navel gazing’. The other way to understand this is to literally place your mind where your hands are–to relocate mind (let’s not say your mind) to your centre of gravity, so that mind is operating from a place other than your brain. Some traditions take this very seriously, this idea of moving your consciousness around the body. I wouldn’t recommend dedicating your life to it, but as an experiment, I recommend trying it, sitting in this posture and trying to feel what it’s like to let your mind, to let the base of your consciousness, move away from your head. One thing you’ll find, or that I have found, at least, is that you can’t will it to happen, because you’re willing it from your head. To the extent that you can do it, it’s an act of letting go–and a fascinating one. (No Struggle [Zazen Yojinki, Part 6], Koun Franz)

What thinker, observer, or source of thoughts? Sounds like you're pointing to something other than the mind as a sense, the object of the mind (as a sense), contact between the mind and an object of mind, impact based on contact, and feeling based on impact? Something other than equanimity with respect to the pleasant, painful, or neither-pleasant-nor-painful of feeling born of contact, something other than knowing things as they really are? I don't get it--what are you talking about! The last part of Gautama's way of living ("the intent concentration on inbreathing and outbreathing") was mindfulness of the state of mind in four elements. All the thoughts initiated and sustained in the mindfulness that made up his way of living were initiated and sustained with "one-pointedness" present: (One) makes up one’s mind: Contemplating impermanence I shall breathe in. Contemplating impermanence I shall breathe out. Contemplating dispassion I shall breathe in. Contemplating dispassion I shall breathe out. Contemplating cessation I shall breathe in. Contemplating cessation I shall breathe out. Contemplating renunciation I shall breathe in. Contemplating renunciation I shall breathe out. (SN V 312, Pali Text Society Vol V pg 275-276; tr. F. L. Woodward; masculine pronouns replaced, re-paragraphed) I know, stirling, that Suzuki's take is more to your liking: … there is no need to depend on teaching. But the most important thing is to practice and realize our true nature… [laughs]. This is, you know, Zen. (Shunryu Suzuki, Tassajara 68-07-24 transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) My version: When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention can draw out thought initial and sustained, and bring on the stages of concentration: The "natural tendency toward the free placement of attention", would you agree? "Presence of mind retained as the placement of attention shifts" is "one-pointedness", in my experience.

Can you elaborate on your understanding of Buddhism as "just mind"? Do you have a particular source for that?

Gautama's way of living included thought initiated and sustained with regard to the mind: Aware of mind I shall breathe in. Aware of mind I shall breathe out. (One) makes up one’s mind: “Gladdening my mind I shall breathe in. Gladdening my mind I shall breathe out. Composing my mind I shall breathe in. Composing my mind I shall breathe out. Detaching my mind I shall breathe in. Detaching my mind I shall breathe out. (SN V 312, Pali Text Society Vol V p 275-276; tr. F. L. Woodward; masculine pronouns replaced, re-paragraphed) S' little trick there--thought initiated and sustained with regard to gladdening the mind and composing the mind permits detachment from the mind. In my experience, the mindfulness that made up Gautama's way of living hinges on cessation experienced in inhalation and exhalation, that is to say, the relinquishment of action of the body in favor of action out of the sense of place associated with free occurrence of awareness--"one-pointedness": Herein… the (noble) disciple, making self-surrender the object of (their) thought, lays hold of concentration, lays hold of one-pointedness. (The disciple), aloof from sensuality, aloof from evil conditions, enters on the first trance, which is accompanied by thought directed and sustained, which is born of solitude, easeful and zestful, and abides therein. (SN v 198, Pali Text Society vol V p 174; parenthetical material paraphrases original; “directed” also rendered as “initial” MN III p 78 and as “applied” PTS AN III p 18-19; emphasis added)