Mark Foote

Meanwhile, over on the "meaning/purpose of life" thread:

Along the lines of that last statement: There can… come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence. There’s a frailty in the structure of the lower spine, and the movement of breath can place the point of awareness in such a fashion as to engage a mechanism of support for the spine, often in stages When “doing something” has ceased, and there is “not one particle of the body” that cannot receive the placement of attention, then the placement of attention is free to shift as necessary in the movement of breath. (At such a moment,) the flow of “doing something” in the body, of activity initiated by habit or volition, ceases .... Instead, activity is generated purely by the placement of attention, and the location of attention can flow. The difficulty is that most people will lose consciousness before they cede activity to the location of attention When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention can draw out thought initial and sustained, and bring on the stages of concentration: … there is no need to depend on teaching. But the most important thing is to practice and realize our true nature… [laughs]. This is, you know, Zen. (Shunryu Suzuki, Tassajara 68-07-24 transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) (sentences taken from Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages, emphasis added)

In the Pali sermons, Gautama described his way of living as "the intent concentration on in-breathing and out-breathing". The intent concentration consisted of sixteen thoughts, applied or sustained in the course of an in-breath or an out-breath. According to Gautama, the "intent concentration on in-breathing and out-breathing" was his way of living most of the time, especially in the rainy season. The "intent concentration" was his way of living, before ("when I was as yet the bodhisattva") and after ("the Tathagatha's way of living") enlightenment. He said that he returned to concentration after his dharma talks. That, and his acknowledgement that the "intent concentration" was only his way of living "most of the time", is an indication that he swung in and out of concentration. Gautama speaks of a longing for the states of concentration, and identifies such a longing as a hindrance. The states are attained, he declared, through lack of desire, by means of lack of desire. He understood that the states were not permanent, he chastised monks who took an oath of silence during retreat and created a rule against it for his order, in spite of the loss of concentration that accompanies "determinate thought" in speech. The first three of the further concentrations were "the excellence of the heart's release" through the extension of compassion, sympathetic joy, and equanimity throughout the four quarters of the world, above and below. The extension of compassion in daily life was a draw greater than concentration for Gautama, as reflected in his dedication to teaching the dharma at the apparent expense of his preferred "way of living". Highs of concentration, the experience of suffering in various guises outside of concentration. Answer to your questions from the framework of Gautama's teaching in the Pali sermons, I would say is yes, but that there is a natural escape from agitation, dissipation, distraction--priceless!

I do recall the exchange about the hammer, vaguely! There is a mention of gods in the teachings of Gautama the Buddha, and of a supreme god, in a story about a man searching to find the end of suffering. When the gentleman finally reaches the supreme god, and asks "where can the end of suffering be found", he receives in response a declaration from the god that he, the god, is "the supreme god". After asking the question three times, and receiving the same answer three times, the god summons him up close and whispers in his ear that he, the supreme god, cannot answer the question, and the man should go back to earth and ask Gautama the Shakyan instead. Similarly there is mention of the heavens, but the best outcome in the teachings of Gautama is not just not to return on any level, but to cease entirely. Maybe that's possible, if the cessation of "determinate thought", of intent, of will, of volition, in feeling and perceiving has taken place in this lifetime. That's the teaching, as far as I know. To be clear, that is not the absence of feeling and perceiving I'm speaking of, but the absence of the habitual or volitive self in feeling and perceiving. Like three card Monte in the back of the bus, what happened to the self in feeling and perceiving? Wasn't there in the first place, but hard to experience.

I... say that the (mind-)development that is mindfulness of in-breathing and out-breathing is not for one of muddled mindfulness, not for one not clearly conscious. (Anapanasatisutta, MN III 84, Pali Text Society III p 126 tr Horner) I declare, Ananda, that the practice of intent concentration on in-breathing and out-breathing is not a mindfulness that is relaxed or composed. Wherefore, Ananda, I say (a person) dwells in mind contemplating mind, ardent, self-possessed and mindful... (SN V 325, Pali Text Society V p 288, tr Woodward) The "(mind)development that is mindfulness of in-breathing and out-breathing", as Horner translates in the middle-length sayings, or "the practice of intent concentration on in-breathing and out-breathing" as Woodward translates in the kindred sayings, constituted Gautama's way of living "most of the time", especially in the rainy season.

I'm not familiar with either of these terms, "Body of the rock" or "body of the cloud"--whaddya got for me?

From my latest write--bear with me: “Pureness of mind” is what remains when “doing something” ceases. When “doing something” has ceased, and there is “not one particle of the body” that cannot receive the placement of attention, then the placement of attention is free to shift as necessary in the movement of breath. In another lecture, Suzuki described the experience: Sometimes when you think that you are doing zazen with an imperturbable mind, you ignore the body, but it is also necessary to have the opposite understanding at the same time. Your body is practicing zazen in imperturbability while your mind is moving. (“Whole-Body Zazen”, lecture by Shunryu Suzuki at Tassajara, June 28, 1970 [edited by Bill Redican], transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) Suzuki was expanding on the last line of a famous poem by the 6th century Buddhist Fuxi: Water does not flow, but the bridge flows. (ibid; Suzuki credits Dogen) The flow of “doing something” in the body, of activity initiated by habit or volition, ceases in the fourth concentration. Instead, activity is generated purely by the placement of attention, and the location of attention can flow. Nevertheless, Suzuki advised his students: Let the water flow, as that is the water’s practice. Let the bridge stay and sit there, because that is the actual practice of the bridge. (ibid) The twelfth-century Chinese teacher Foyan similarly expressed a caution to his students: In my school, there are only two kinds of sickness. One is to go looking for a donkey riding on the donkey. The other is to be unwilling to dismount once having mounted the donkey. … Once you have recognized the donkey, to mount it and be unwilling to dismount is the sickness that is most difficult to treat. I tell you that you need not mount the donkey; you are the donkey! (“Instant Zen: Waking Up in the Present”, tr T. Cleary, Shambala p 4) Having experienced the placement of attention as the source of activity (“riding on the donkey”), the tendency is to want the activity of the body to come solely from the placement of attention all the time (“to be unwilling to dismount”). Foyan asserted that activity from the location of attention is inherent in human nature, and the unwillingness to relinquish such activity is not healthy. Gautama did not express a caution with regard to the fourth concentration. Instead, he recommended a way of living that incorporated the experience, a way of living he called “the intent concentration on inbreathing and outbreathing” (SN V 316 & 326): … if cultivated and made much of, (the “intent concentration”) is something peaceful and choice, something perfect in itself, and a pleasant way of living too. (SN V 320-322, Pali Text Society V p 285) The “intent concentration” consisted of sixteen thoughts, each applied or sustained in an inhalation or exhalation. Applying and sustaining thought would appear to be a preparatory practice, but in Gautama’s “intent concentration”, the thought comes out of necessity in the free placement of attention in the movement of breath. The free placement of attention only occurs with clarity in the fourth concentration, but as Foyan pointed out, such freedom is inherent in human nature. (Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages) That's what I thought of, when i read your statement: "Breaking down that natural and very useful automatic filtering in the mind produces a lot of problems if one is not very careful." "Once this illusion is realized, then, one can examine the illusion and accurately observe some of what is being concealed by it. The accuracy of these observations comes from accurately realizing what the illusion is, and how it works."--what you are referring to as the veil, the illusion, I would say is the misapprehension that the body (and even, this world) is anything but a vehicle for free consciousness.

Sad to see, now. But a new day will come, I have faith.

I've mostly taken reassurance from some of the dreams I've had. Lost a friend back in the early days, and yet she was there in a dream, as a waitress, offering me a meal--then everyone was there, all my family and friends, a celebration of something. Now so many decades later, I see that the dream was about love absent "doing something", or "going somewhere", and that I can practice the same. A dream from a few days ago, as I wrote to two friends of mine: "I dreamt we three were about to have dinner, a mid-afternoon affair like Thanksgiving. I was putting on a good shirt, and slacks. I realized the things in my visual field seemed to be a bit more patterned than usual, and figured that we must have ingested an entheogen of some kind, although the patterning was still just subtle." Never had a dream like that before, as far as the patterning, in my life! I went to the dentist that day in my waking life, and I realized that the patterning was my latest writing playing out. Hope you've read it, Apech--you know I value your opinion, and find it inspiring (the piece is in the signature, the one with "Shunryu Suzuki"). As usual, the dreams I describe above were the last ones before I woke up. Those tend to be the most organized for me. I wonder, is that the same for you? I always search for parallels in my daily (and spiritual) life that may be represented in these dreams, and I usually find them.

That's just asking for it, Nungali... Probably an unpopular selection.

I'm only talking about Gautama's way of living, a certain "intent concentration on inbreathing and outbreathing", not his enlightenment: … if cultivated and made much of, (the “intent concentration”) is something peaceful and choice, something perfect in itself, and a pleasant way of living too. (SN V 320-322, Pali Text Society V p 285) Not looking to pass tests, just need to incorporate action that takes place without “doing something' as a regular thing in my life.

A different take on the purpose of life--living a life that allows for the free placement of attention, even when the location of attention is the source of activity. Bits and pieces of my latest post, over on zenmudra.com/zazen-notes: There can… come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence. ... When “doing something” has ceased, and there is “not one particle of the body” that cannot receive the placement of attention, then the placement of attention is free to shift as necessary in the movement of breath. ... The flow of “doing something” in the body, of activity initiated by habit or volition, ceases in the fourth concentration. Instead, activity is generated purely by the placement of attention, and the location of attention can flow. ... The difficulty is that most people will lose consciousness before they cede activity to the location of attention–they lose the presence of mind with the placement of attention, because they can’t believe that action in the body is possible without “doing something”: ... When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention can draw out thought initial and sustained, and bring on the stages of concentration: … there is no need to depend on teaching. But the most important thing is to practice and realize our true nature… [laughs]. This is, you know, Zen. (Shunryu Suzuki, Tassajara 68-07-24 transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) (Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages) A different take--living a life that allows for the free placement of attention, even when the location of attention is the source of activity.

I just finished a post on my own website, maybe this can give you some idea of the kind of practice I'm engaged in: When necessity places attention, and a presence of mind is retained as the placement shifts and moves, then in Gautama’s words, “[one] lays hold of concentration, lays hold of one-pointedness”: Herein… the (noble) disciple, making self-surrender the object of (their) thought, lays hold of concentration, lays hold of one-pointedness. (The disciple), aloof from sensuality, aloof from evil conditions, enters on the first trance, which is accompanied by thought directed and sustained, which is born of solitude, easeful and zestful, and abides therein. (SN v 198, Pali Text Society vol V p 174; parenthetical material paraphrases original; “directed” also rendered as “initial” MN III p 78 and as “applied” PTS AN III p 18-19) Foyan spoke of “looking for a donkey riding on the donkey”. The degree of “self-surrender” required to allow necessity to place attention, and the presence of mind required to “lay hold” as the placement of attention shifts, make the conscious experience of “riding the donkey” elusive. Suzuki provided an analogy: If you are going to fall, you know, from, for instance, from the tree to the ground, the moment you, you know, leave the branch you lose your function of the body. But if you don’t, you know, there is a pretty long time before you reach to the ground. And there may be some branch, you know. So you can catch the branch or you can do something. But because you lose function of your body, you know [laughs], before you reach to the ground, you may lose your conscious[ness]. (“To Actually Practice Selflessness”, August Sesshin Lecture Wednesday, August 6, 1969, San Francisco; “fell” corrected to “fall”; transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) Suzuki offered the analogy in response to the travails of his students, who were experiencing pain in their legs sitting cross-legged on the floor. In his analogy, he suggested the possibility of an escape from pain through a presence of mind with the function of the body. The difficulty is that most people will lose consciousness before they cede activity to the location of attention–they lose the presence of mind with the placement of attention, because they can’t believe that action in the body is possible without “doing something”: It’s impossible to teach the meaning of sitting. You won’t believe it. Not because I say something wrong, but until you experience it and confirm it by yourself, you cannot believe it. (Kobun Chino Otogawa, “Embracing Mind”, edited by Cosgrove & Hall, pg 48) As I’ve written previously, there’s an opportunity to make self-surrender the object of thought and to lay hold of “one-pointedness” just before falling asleep: … Just before I fall asleep, my awareness can move very readily, and my sense of where I am tends to move with it. This is also true when I am waking up, although it can be harder to recognize (I tend to live through my eyes in the daytime, and associate my sense of place with them). … when I realize my physical sense of location in space, and realize it as it occurs from one moment to the next, then I wake up or fall asleep as appropriate. (Waking Up and Falling Asleep) (Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages) I would be remiss if I did not add the conclusion: When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention can draw out thought initial and sustained, and bring on the stages of concentration: … there is no need to depend on teaching. But the most important thing is to practice and realize our true nature… [laughs]. This is, you know, Zen. (Shunryu Suzuki, Tassajara 68-07-24 transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) (ibid)

Here's the problem, with slight intro: When necessity places attention, and a presence of mind is retained as the placement shifts and moves, then in Gautama’s words, “[one] lays hold of concentration, lays hold of one-pointedness”: Herein… the (noble) disciple, making self-surrender the object of (their) thought, lays hold of concentration, lays hold of one-pointedness. (The disciple), aloof from sensuality, aloof from evil conditions, enters on the first trance, which is accompanied by thought directed and sustained, which is born of solitude, easeful and zestful, and abides therein. (SN v 198, Pali Text Society vol V p 174; parenthetical material paraphrases original; “directed” also rendered as “initial” MN III p 78 and as “applied” PTS AN III p 18-19) Foyan spoke of “looking for a donkey riding on the donkey”. The degree of “self-surrender” required to allow necessity to place attention, and the presence of mind required to “lay hold” as the placement of attention shifts, make the conscious experience of “riding the donkey” elusive. Suzuki provided an analogy: If you are going to fall, you know, from, for instance, from the tree to the ground, the moment you, you know, leave the branch you lose your function of the body. But if you don’t, you know, there is a pretty long time before you reach to the ground. And there may be some branch, you know. So you can catch the branch or you can do something. But because you lose function of your body, you know [laughs], before you reach to the ground, you may lose your conscious[ness]. (“To Actually Practice Selflessness”, August Sesshin Lecture Wednesday, August 6, 1969, San Francisco; “fell” corrected to “fall”; transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) Suzuki offered the analogy in response to the travails of his students, who were experiencing pain in their legs sitting cross-legged on the floor. In his analogy, he suggested the possibility of an escape from pain through a presence of mind with the function of the body. The difficulty is that most people will lose consciousness before they cede activity to the location of attention–they lose the presence of mind with the placement of attention, because they can’t believe that action in the body is possible without “doing something”: It’s impossible to teach the meaning of sitting. You won’t believe it. Not because I say something wrong, but until you experience it and confirm it by yourself, you cannot believe it. (Kobun Chino Otogawa, “Embracing Mind”, edited by Cosgrove & Hall, pg 48) (Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages) And the solution: When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention can draw out thought initial and sustained, and bring on the stages of concentration: … there is no need to depend on teaching. But the most important thing is to practice and realize our true nature… [laughs]. This is, you know, Zen. (Shunryu Suzuki, Tassajara 68-07-24 transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) (ibid)

In one of his lectures, Shunryu Suzuki spoke about the difference between “preparatory practice” and “shikantaza”, or “just sitting”: But usually in counting breathing or following breathing, you feel as if you are doing something, you know– you are following breathing, and you are counting breathing. This is, you know, why counting breathing or following breathing practice is, you know, for us it is some preparation– preparatory practice for shikantaza because for most people it is rather difficult to sit, you know, just to sit. (“The Background of Shikantaza”; Shunryu Suzuki, Sunday, February 22, 1970, San Francisco; transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) Suzuki said that directing attention to the movement of breath (“following breathing… counting breathing”) has the feeling of “doing something”, and that “doing something” makes such practice only preparatory. Although attention can be directed to the movement of breath, necessity in the movement of breath can also direct attention, as I wrote previously: There can… come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence. (Common Ground) There’s a frailty in the structure of the lower spine, and the movement of breath can place the point of awareness in such a fashion as to engage a mechanism of support for the spine, often in stages (see A Way of Living). ... When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention can draw out thought initial and sustained, and bring on the stages of concentration: … there is no need to depend on teaching. But the most important thing is to practice and realize our true nature… [laughs]. This is, you know, Zen. (Shunryu Suzuki, Tassajara 68-07-24 transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) (Excerpts from Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages) Clear Lake, Lake County California

You must strive with all your might to bite through here and cut off conditioned habits of mind. Be like a person who has died the great death: after your breath is cut off, then you come back to life. Only then do you realize that it is as open as empty space. Only then do you reach the point where your feet are walking on the ground of reality. (Yuanwu, "Zen Letters", translated by J.C. and Thomas Cleary, pg 84) From something I posted on my own site, yesterday: When necessity places attention, and a presence of mind is retained as the placement shifts and moves, then in Gautama’s words, “[one] lays hold of concentration, lays hold of one-pointedness”: Herein… the (noble) disciple, making self-surrender the object of (their) thought, lays hold of concentration, lays hold of one-pointedness. (The disciple), aloof from sensuality, aloof from evil conditions, enters on the first trance, which is accompanied by thought directed and sustained, which is born of solitude, easeful and zestful, and abides therein. (SN v 198, Pali Text Society vol V p 174; parenthetical material paraphrases original; “directed” also rendered as “initial” MN III p 78 and as “applied” PTS AN III p 18-19) Foyan spoke of “looking for a donkey riding on the donkey”. The degree of “self-surrender” required to allow necessity to place attention, and the presence of mind required to “lay hold” as the placement of attention shifts, make the conscious experience of “riding the donkey” elusive. (Shunryu) Suzuki provided an analogy: If you are going to fall, you know, from, for instance, from the tree to the ground, the moment you, you know, leave the branch you lose your function of the body. But if you don’t, you know, there is a pretty long time before you reach to the ground. And there may be some branch, you know. So you can catch the branch or you can do something. But because you lose function of your body, you know [laughs], before you reach to the ground, you may lose your conscious[ness]. (“To Actually Practice Selflessness”, August Sesshin Lecture Wednesday, August 6, 1969, San Francisco; “fell” corrected to “fall”; transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) Suzuki offered the analogy in response to the travails of his students, who were experiencing pain in their legs sitting cross-legged on the floor. In his analogy, he suggested the possibility of an escape from pain through a presence of mind with the function of the body. The difficulty is that most people will lose consciousness before they cede activity to the location of attention–they lose the presence of mind with the placement of attention, because they can’t believe that action in the body is possible without “doing something”: It’s impossible to teach the meaning of sitting. You won’t believe it. Not because I say something wrong, but until you experience it and confirm it by yourself, you cannot believe it. (Kobun Chino Otogawa, “Embracing Mind”, edited by Cosgrove & Hall, pg 48) ... When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention can draw out thought initial and sustained, and bring on the stages of concentration: … there is no need to depend on teaching. But the most important thing is to practice and realize our true nature… [laughs]. This is, you know, Zen. (Shunryu Suzuki, Tassajara 68-07-24 transcript from shunryusuzuki.com) (Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages) That would be why oftentimes people have to be at the end of their rope, so to speak, before they discover a way to let go and still function in this world--"they can't believe that action... is possible without 'doing something'." Then they find grace. Most do not come to the experience through "just sitting", I'll acknowledge!

I learned the first part of Cheng Man-Ch'ing's Tai Chi form in a park, from a local teacher, for free. I still practice that, daily. Not sure where you are, but I suspect there may be someone teaching his form near you. As Gerard said, there is (was?) a tradition in Cheng's school to teach at least the first part of the form in a park, for free. The books are good, although he searches for a physical explanation of the dan t'ien and I don't think that's what it's about: "Master Cheng's Thirteen Chapters on Tai Chi Ch'üan", by Cheng Man-Ch'Ing and Douglas Wile | Jan 1, 1982 "Master Cheng's Thirteen Chapters on Tai Chi Ch'üan", by Cheng Man Ch'Ing, Benjamin Pang Jeng Lo, and Martin Inn There are more. Video:

just at dusk, they fly while overhead, the buzz of rice flies everywhere rice flies everywhere for two weeks--then gone. The lake, still alive this fall

I object, this is the popular opinion of abcessed sockets under teeth! My sympathies, Nungali!

I think about this a lot. I was ova-lacto vegetarian for a few years, then vegan for a few more. Had some bad dreams, figured it was time for a change and resumed eggs and sardines. Gradually back to meat twice a day. Had a life-changing experience as I transitioned back from eggs and sardines. Reminded me of Gautama the Buddha, who was barely able to fish himself out of the river, and decided to resume milk and sustenance. Then he sat six years and experienced "the cessation of ('determinate thought' in) feeling and perceiving", and saw the dependent causation that was his enlightenment. I only experienced "the cessation of ('determinate thought' in) inhalation and exhalation", zazen that got up and walked to the door. No enlightenment, but it nearly ruined my life, as I waited for zazen to do everything. And I still couldn't sit the lotus worth beans. I always thought that maybe someday I'd turn a corner, and go back to at least ova-lacto vegetarianism, but it's actually more complicated for me to find satisfaction at that. And I haven't turned a corner that tells me to give up the meat. I think of Gautama, advising his followers to accept what they were given, even if it was meat. And telling them to think of it as a parent eating their children. I think of Kobun Chino Otogawa, saying "vegetables scream too, you just don't hear them."

…I say that determinate thought is action. When one determines, one acts by deed, word, or thought. (AN III 415, Pali Text Society Vol III p 294) And what… is the ceasing of action? That ceasing of action by body, speech, and mind, by which one contacts freedom,–that is called ‘the ceasing of action’. (SN IV 145, Pali Text Society Vol IV p 85) …I have seen that the ceasing of the activities is gradual. When one has attained the first trance, speech has ceased. When one has attained the second trance, thought initial and sustained has ceased. When one has attained the third trance, zest has ceased. When one has attained the fourth trance, inbreathing and outbreathing have ceased… Both perception and feeling have ceased when one has attained the cessation of perception and feeling. (SN IV 217, Pali Text Society vol IV p 146) I think the cessation of ("determinate thought" in) "feeling and perceiving" (action of the mind) may be out of reach for me, at this point. Nevertheless, Gautama described a way of living that incorporates regular experience of the cessation of ("determinate thought" in) inbreathing and outbreathing (action of the body), and he said that way of living was: ... something peaceful and choice, something perfect in itself, and a pleasant way of living too. (SN V 320-322, Pali Text Society V p 285) That's my aim now, but I wouldn't get out of bed if the cat didn't insist...

See the flock of birds skimming north along the lake just at dusk, they fly

I did find it, not sure why I didn't come up with it from your description earlier--anyway, thanks.

But then again: Now what... is right view? Now I... say that right view is twofold. There is... the right view that has cankers, that is on the side of merit, that ripens unto cleaving (to new birth). There is... the right view that is [noble], cankerless, supermundane, a component of the Way. And what... is the right view that has cankers, that is on the side of merit, that ripens unto cleaving (to new birth)? There is (result of) gift ... offering sacrifice; there is fruit and ripening of deeds well done or ill done; there is this world, there is a world beyond; there is (benefit from) serving mother and father; there are spontaneously arising beings; there are in the world recluses and brahmins... who proclaim this world and the world beyond having realised them by their own super-knowledge. This... is a right view that has cankers, is on the side of merit, that ripens unto cleaving (to new birth). And what... is the right view that is [noble], cankerless, supermundane, a component of the Way? Whatever... is wisdom, the cardinal faculty of wisdom, the power of wisdom, the component of enlightenment that is investigation into things, the right view that is a component of the Way in one who, by developing the [noble] Way, is of [noble] thought, cankerless thought, conversant with the [noble] Way--this... is a right view that is [noble], cankerless, supermundane, a component of the Way. As to this… right view comes first. And how… does right view come first? If one comprehends that wrong purpose is wrong purpose and comprehends that right purpose is right purpose, that is… right view. And what… is wrong purpose? Purpose for sense-pleasures, purpose for ill-will, purpose for harming. This… is wrong purpose. And what… is right purpose? Now I… say that right purpose is twofold. There is… the right purpose that has cankers, is on the side of merit, and ripens unto cleaving (to new birth). There is… the right purpose which is [noble], cankerless, supermundane, a factor of the Way. And what… is the purpose which is on the side of merit, and ripens unto cleaving? Purpose for renunciation, purpose for non-ill-will, purpose for non-harming. This… is right purpose that… ripens unto cleaving. And what… is the right purpose that is [noble], cankerless, supermundane, a component of the Way? Whatever… is reasoning, initial thought, purpose, an activity of speech through the complete focusing and application of the mind in one who, by developing the [noble] Way, is of [noble] thought, of cankerless thought, and is conversant with the [noble] Way–this… is right purpose that is [noble], cankerless, supermundane, a component of the Way. (MN III 71-78, Vol III p 113-121; bracketed "noble" replaces "ariyan" in the original) Gautama speaks similarly of right purpose, right speech, right action, right mode of livelihood (but not of right endeavor, right mindfulness, or right concentration), then says: As to this… right view comes first. And how … does right view come first? Right purpose… proceeds from right view, right speech proceeds from right purpose; right action proceeds from right speech; right mode of livelihood proceeds from right action; right endeavor proceeds from right mode of livelihood; right mindfulness proceeds from right endeavor; right concentration proceeds from right mindfulness; right knowledge proceeds from right concentration; right freedom proceeds from right knowledge. In this way the learner’s course is possessed of eight components, the perfected one’s of ten components. (ibid) He does put right view first, but there's a distinction between the right view "that has cankers" and the "supermundane" right view. Also, he has described the path of the "perfected one" as ten-fold, rather than eight-fold. What's a mother to do--the dhamma is so unruly! Read the sermons in the Pali Text Society translations, here.