Mark Foote

Thanks for the reply, Kempomaster. My hat is off, to you and Michael, for your dedication and your compassionate healing and teaching. Even with the four-leggeds and the winged! In bringing up the psychic, and I could mention many other traditions of healing, I meant to point out that the particular technique involved is in some ways subordinate to the intuitive reception of the circumstance and the healing approach. I also wanted to emphasize that the place the mind is at the moment is identically the circumstance and the healing approach. I say this as though I were a healer myself. I'm afraid my own experience is limited to having helped my parents at the very end of their lives to relax a little, and maybe to let go; I don't know. That, and a description that helped a guy get back to sleep, which I would say is a healing imparted by heart-felt words. I do think that just as your understanding of what it is you are trying to heal makes a difference in your practice, so too an accurate account of what's involved in waking up and falling asleep can make a difference in the way people live their lives, if only to help people to get the rest they need and maybe be more alert.

This post excites me. I have exchanged a lot of emails with a friend who has experienced healing at a distance from a psychic (who I believe is in Oregon). My friend could feel the energy moving in his body from his feet upward as the psychic worked. The psychic works for free, and teaches his methodology (probably not for free, but I'm guessing he doesn't make a living at it). After the distance healing, the psychic was able to describe several old injuries my friend had, some of which he had forgotten. As to the psychic's abilities, the basic method is to pay attention to things that come into the mind before they are understood; the psychic picks up on right-brain perceptions, if you will, prior to left-brain comprehension. This I think Ya-Mu has also described. Seems like the essence of the healing is a right-brain perception of the patient's own well-being, and of the energy field related to that well-being. I am thinking, the planet has a well-being, and an energy field related to that well-being, as well. May we rest in the place we find ourselves in! There, I think, is the life I have to lead, such as it may be. Ya-mu, you mention that stillness is a prerequisite to the Stillness-Movement practice you offer. I have a piece about waking up and falling asleep, and the practice I describe there is picking up on a sense of the location of mind from moment to moment. I think of that as stillness, although there is activity: "Impact from consciousness in the body I believe is the source of the "hypnagogic myoclonic twitch", which is the involuntary jerk that many people experience as they are dropping off to sleep. This is hypothesized to be a result of the loss of motor control and the association (in the mind) of the loss of motor control with falling. When I sit, I am looking to let go of any action whatsoever, just like falling asleep; I experience subtle contractions in the paired muscles of posture that occur in connection with the sense of place associated with consciousness. This is a hypnic jerk phenomena, that contributes to the alignment of the spine and through the alignment of the spine, to the ability to feel connected with the sense organs. Moshe Feldenkrais wrote about finding support for the lower spine so that the breath could be continued through shifts in posture. To that end, he recommended exercises to experience the basic motions of pitch, yaw, and roll while sitting on a chair. Hypnic phenomena connected with the place of occurrence of consciousness can initiate all three of these basic motions, as necessary for the support of the lower spine in the movement of breath- and do so solely as a result of the place of occurrence of consciousness from moment to moment." (my response to humbleone, on the thread "Myth of the Eight Hour Sleep") Maybe someday I will have the opportunity to learn the practice you teach, or maybe I already know it- you don't mention that you are just helping people to remember something they already know, but I'll bet that's true! yers, Mark in Sebastopol

I think Drew Hempel mentioned that Chunyi Lin has his subjects drink a glass of water before he begins distance healings; hope that's of interest.

Still making my way through this thread, but here is an article which may be of interest to you, Huaco: N.Y. Times- Sleeping or Not By the Wrong Clock

from the LA Times- Margaret Runyan Castaneda dies at 90; ex-wife of mystic author ...According to Margaret's memoir, Carlos had been deceptive since the beginning of their relationship, telling her, for instance, that he was born in Brazil, the son of a professor. Legal documents would later show that he was born in Peru and was the son of a goldsmith. She theorized that Carlos came up with the name Don Juan Matus because of their mutual enjoyment of Mateus wine, which, she wrote, "he jokingly referred to as his most valuable teacher." She also suggested that Carlos was inspired to structure his books as a conversation with Don Juan because of a remark she once made about Plato turning Socrates into a character in his famous dialogues. "His books are conversations he is holding with himself," Margaret told author Richard de Mille in "The Don Juan Papers," a collection of essays critical of Carlos' work.

I apologize for putting my thoughts on paper when they were not entirely on-topic. I have had some time to think about the fact that you don't experience the location of consciousness below the waist, and writing on my own blog I found these words, which I'll hope are more germane: 'Moshe Feldenkrais wrote about finding support for the lower spine so that the breath could be continued through shifts in posture. To that end, he recommended exercises to experience the basic motions of pitch, yaw, and roll while sitting on a chair. Hypnic phenomena connected with the place of occurrence of consciousness can initiate all three of these basic motions, as necessary for the support of the lower spine in the movement of breath- and do so solely as a result of the place of occurrence of consciousness from moment to moment. Sometimes I recall a Chinese adage that aptly describes the ability to feel that can develop, as the place of occurrence of consciousness responds to the necessity of breath in a given posture or carriage: "the true person, breathing to their heels".' I conclude, as I did a few posts above: "... making self-surrender (one's) object of thought, (one) lays hold of concentration, lays hold of one-pointedness of mind." (SN V 2 , Pali Text Society volume 5 pg 175-176, ©Pali Text Society)' There is a relationship for me between the movement of breath, posture or carriage, and the place of occurrence of consciousness. That's a restatement of something of mine you quoted me, without cranial-sacral theory; either way, I don't experience this activity unless I am "waking up or falling asleep", and the initiation of action is a result of the place of occurrence of consciousness rather than my habitual activity of posture. The instances you cite go to the heart of the matter, regarding "zazen that gets up and walks around". I am still trying to offer a description of the relationships involved in this, such that another person can understand the relationships and arrive at the experience. The amygdala is probably involved in stepping on the brakes, memories that are tagged with adrenalin that trigger action when similar circumstances are encountered. But I would also say that psychics teach their art by asking people to catch the images in the mind before the descriptions; your experience with your dream demonstrates that place is a component of the mind catching images before descriptions. With the car, you not only realized what was happening before mental comprehension, but your awareness moved to where your whole body could be thrown into action before your full comprehension. I've had that kind of experience, and that was my take when I stopped to reflect on it, my awareness shifted. Kind of like falling down, yes. Puts me in mind of the time I was held up, out behind a McDonald's in San Francisco. I was the janitor, cleaning the mop outside the back entrance, when a guy jumped the fence. I thought it was our breakfast cook at first, same build with his cap low and grinning, but then he raised a paper bag with his hand in it. I closed and grabbed the barrel, long-barreled thing it was- then I had a split second to decide if I was letting go or jumping him. I realized he didn't mean to do any harm, and let go. He was pissed, marched me inside and had us all face down on the floor, then he disappeared with the weekend receipts. A week later, I read in the paper that two German tourists were held up on Bush street by a short man with a long-barreled gun. They thought it was a joke, and tried to jump him; he shot one of them in the kneecap and one in the shoulder, I think it was. Writing about myclonic twitches and writing in response to you in general brings me back to letting go of all the things I do when I sit, and otherwise. It's a good place to be in, I think. Sometimes I feel like my words are my archery, and I am looking for "it" to place the words on paper to change my life and this world (hopefully for the better?). Truth is, only all sentient beings together can do this.

There are some "hypnagogic myoclonic twitches" that seem fundamental; here's the list, funny list from China circa 500 C.E., but a list that I rely on: “An empty hand grasps the hoe handle Walking along, I ride the ox The ox crosses the wooden bridge The bridge is flowing, the water is still.” (“Zen’s Chinese Heritage”, Andy Ferguson, pg 2, ©2000 Andrew Ferguson)

Trying to organize my thoughts around this, especially around practice. I think the practice I describe in "Waking Up and Falling Asleep" is correct, but your statement about never experiencing the location of awareness below the waist interests me. I realize that there's more that can be said. First off, here's the description Gautama the Buddha gave of the practice I am calling "waking up and falling asleep": "(Anyone)…knowing and seeing eye as it really is, knowing and seeing material shapes… visual consciousness… impact on the eye as it really is, and knowing, seeing as it really is the experience, whether pleasant, painful, or neither painful nor pleasant, that arises conditioned by impact on the eye, is not attached to the eye nor to material shapes nor to visual consciousness nor to impact on the eye; and that experience, whether pleasant, painful, or neither painful nor pleasant, that arises conditioned by impact on the eye—neither to that is (such a one) attached. …(Such a one’s) physical anxieties decrease, and mental anxieties decrease, and bodily torments… and mental torments… and bodily fevers decrease, and mental fevers decrease. (Such a one) experiences happiness of body and happiness of mind. (repeated for ear, nose, tongue, body, and mind)." (Majjhima-Nikaya 149, Pali Text Society volume 3 pg 337-338, ©Pali Text Society) At first glance, not a lot like "Waking Up and Falling Asleep", but I believe they are the same. Gautama goes on to state that the above "knowing and seeing as it really is" with regard to the six senses develops and brings to fruition the eight fold path and all the other components necessary to enlightenment. At the same time, Gautama described his practice both before and after his enlightenment as "the intent contemplation on in-breathing and out-breathing" (SN V X, volume 5 pg 280 & 289, ©Pali Text Society). This contemplation was a way of setting up mindfulness through sixteen awarenesses, each awareness in connection with inhalation or exhalation. Now the critical part of the "intent contemplation on in-breathing and out-breathing" is the very first instruction after "(one) breathes in mindfully and mindfully breathes out": "As (one) draws in a long breath (one) knows: a long breath I draw in. As (one) breathes out a long breath (one) knows: I breath out a long breath. As (one) draws in a short breath (one) knows: a short breath I draw in. As (one) breathes out a short breath (one) knows: I breath out a short breath." (Ibid) Zen master Dogen's teacher Tientong (Rujing) had this to say about the length of in-breaths and out-breaths: "Breath enters and reaches the tanden, and yet there is no place from which it comes. Therefore it is neither long nor short. Breath emerges from the tanden, and yet there is nowhere it goes. Therefore it is neither short nor long." ("Dogen's Extensive Record: A Translation of the Eihei Koroku", by Dan Leighton, Shohaku Okumura, Steven Heine, and John Daido Loori, pg 349) The description of the practice in words that can impart a basis for experience is a challenge, and Gautama the Buddha clearly encouraged everyone to question authority and discover the truth of the matter for themselves, saying "everything changes, work out your own salvation". Now I would like to expand on the Gautamid's practice of "knowing and seeing... as it really is" (with regard to the six senses), with the hope of reconciling Gautama's practice with Tientong's understanding. But first I have this question: where does the impact that Gautama mentions (in connection with consciousness) take place, and how does that engender feeling? Does consciousness of contact between a sense organ and sense object take place in the sense organ, so that consciousness of contact between the eye and a visual object generates consciousness in the eye? I think not. If so, what happens when there are multiple sense contacts- I myself experience consciousness as a unitary phenomena, not as multiple consciousnesses happening at the same time. My sense of place in connection with consciousness may shift with multiple contacts in my senses, but my experience of consciousness itself is that it happens at one place at a time, one place after another if you will. With regard to the sense of touch, impact from contact in the body I believe is the source of the "hypnagogic myoclonic twitch", which is the involuntary jerk that many people experience as they are dropping off to sleep. This is hypothesized to be a result of the loss of motor control and the association (in the mind) of the loss of motor control with falling. When I sit, I am looking to let go of any action whatsoever, just like falling asleep; I experience subtle contractions in the paired muscles of posture that occur in connection with the sense of place associated with consciousness. This is a hypnic jerk phenomena, that contributes to the alignment of the spine and through the alignment of the spine, to the ability to feel connected with the sense organs. For me, the relaxed movement of breath depends on "knowing and seeing... as it really is" (as consciousness takes place), while the necessary "knowing and seeing... as it really is" depends on the length of the inhalation or exhalation. I would say the trick is to relax and let go of action until the place of occurrence of consciousness comes forward; as the Gautamid said: "... making self-surrender (one's) object of thought, (one) lays hold of concentration, lays hold of one-pointedness of mind." (SN V 200, Pali Text Society volume 5 pg 175-176, ©Pali Text Society)

Likewise, humbleone, makes my day to hear about your experience with this. I find consciousness in a lot of places, when I stop and turn the light around, as it were. Also the fact that I am attending to the sense of place can tend to move that sense of place. I get a sense of consciousness as located in my head, in my chest, sometimes in my arms, often in my legs. I work at opening my ability to feel by hanging with the sense of place, and sometimes it seems like it helps to take inventory of the places my mind doesn't go and see if I have feeling there. Like my backside, and my calves. Putting my attention on the pivots of the sacrum tends to cause my sense of place to actually shift to the hara, isn't that a weird one? I'm focusing attention on the sacrum, but when I relax and slip into sense of place, my consciousness is at the hara without quite giving up the sacrum. I guess that's the ability to feel and the place of consciousness in relation, somehow! Like to experience that more. The bit about the dream memory at the back of the mind, wow.

That would be cool. I'd certainly be interested to hear. Me, I sleep. Interesting to hear that you don't, really. And I do wake up the same way, that's the mystery, that it's the same. Somebody on Hardcore Zen blog mentioned that they only generally heard about "waking up" and "falling asleep" in Buddhism in connection with the awakening of enlightenment and the illusion of maya or samsara. I went looking for a quote for them from the description of mindfulness in the Pali Suttas, and found a long list of "full awarenesses" (elsewhere "clear comprehensions") in the minfulness of the body section, including: "(one) who acts in full awareness when walking, standing, sitting, falling asleep, waking up, talking, and keeping silent." MN 119 I think I would prefer this as "one who acts with clear comprehension when walking, standing, sitting, falling asleep, waking up, talking, and keeping silent". That makes sense to me, though it's a mix of translations. The full awareness in "falling asleep, waking up" caught my eye. My Pali Society books translate this as "asleep, awake", which never made much sense to me; how can a person clearly comprehend "asleep"? But "falling asleep, waking up", I think I may have a clue. To what extent does that clue apply to the other things on the list, in section 6 of the sermon (section on full awareness, translation referenced above)?- probably most if not all items on the list, although it's a funny thing to make an effort and then realize that no effort equally applies. Something new for me to think about. I am so wrapped up in exploring this for myself, I have not emailed the BBC about the practice in connection with "The Myth of the Eight Hour Sleep" (started to, but the computer ate my email the first time around and I haven't gotten back to it). Maybe I'll do that.

midnight in silence dragon coils out of nowhere now here, now there, gone

is feng shui pooey reminds me, sick dog last night life's surprises, joy

candy from babies easy as pie, to steal love stony lonesome time

Apech posted a link to a BBC article entitled The Myth of the Eight Hour Sleep. The article states that at one time, most folks went to bed about 9pm, and woke up somewhere between 2am and 4am. They would stay up for an hour or two, sitting in bed reading or otherwise occupied, then go back to sleep for another couple of hours. I commented that I had written a piece, Waking Up and Falling Asleep, that described a practice that helped me get back to sleep. Tao Bums regular "humbleone" read my practice, and tried it out, in hopes of resolving his own difficulty in getting back to sleep in the early morning hours. He reported that it worked for him. He wrote as follows: If you have trouble getting to sleep (or back to sleep), and would like to try out the practice I describe, I would be grateful for any feedback you might offer. I'm willing to answer any questions you might have. If this works for a lot of people, I can see if there's a way to bring the practice to the attention of more people who could use it; I think a lot of people could use it, but I'm probably going to have to prove it to procede from here. Thanks, all! Mark

An expansion on the above reply.

Another take.

Try this.

My own struggle is to overcome some numbness in the top foot. I hope to learn to relax into waking up and falling asleep and let it happen; experience with the place of occurrence of mind, I have to believe will get it.

You can always sit half-lotus, or Burmese, meaning legs flat on the floor crossed in front. The movement of mind opens feeling, so long as you do nothing. The opening of feeling generates activity. I'm talking about the ability to feel, like when they run a pin down your leg to determine if vertebrae are pinching nerves in the lower spine; if your skin is numb in an area on the legs, there are charts to correlate that area with nerve exits between particular spinal vertebrae. So look for the movement of awareness to develop an ability to feel, right to the surface of the skin. This is the movement of awareness like just before you fall asleep; you can have this experience waking up. The stretches at the sacrum are the limiting stretches. The sacrum moves forward and back, pivoting on the attachments to the pelvis; that's easy to feel. The sacrum also tilts left and right, and rotates counter to the pelvis; this morning I found it helpful to distinguish the vertical axis of the sacrum, meaning the motion of the sacrum around the centerline of the spine. The place of mind, or the sense of location in the occurrence of consciousness- that's where waking up and falling asleep meets falling down: "Do you ever wake up suddenly to a falling sensation and a strong muscle twitch just after you have fallen asleep? This strange falling sensation and muscle twitch is known as a hypnagogic myoclonic twitch or “Hypnic jerk” If this has happened to you on more than one occasion, don’t worry, you are not alone. Close to 70 percent of all people experience this phenomenon just after nodding off, according to a recent study at the Mayo Clinic. Most experts agree that this is a natural part of the sleeping process, much like slower breathing and a reduced heartbeat. The occurance is well known and has been well documented. However, experts are still not completely sure why the body does this. The general consensus among researchers is that, as your muscles begin to slack and go into a restful state just as you are falling asleep; your brain senses these relaxation signals and misinterprets them, thinking you are falling down. The brain then sends signals to the muscles in your arms and legs in an attempt to jerk you back upright. This misinterpretation that takes place in your brain may also be responsible for the “falling” dreams that accompany the falling sensation. These “dreams” are not really normal dreams, as they are not produced from R.E.M sleep, but rather more like a daydream or hallucination in response to the body’s sensations." (link to article here) In my estimation you are looking for those signals that jerk you back upright to sit the lotus, while you wake and sleep with the place of occurrence of consciousness. Ok, maybe the signals are not quite as strong as that, but same principle, action generated autonomically because you are not holding anything, not doing anything in the face of falling down. I would sit so that you can be half-way comfortable, and look for the sense of location as consciousness takes place.

Slightly different angle: "'Miraculous power and marvelous activity Drawing water and chopping wood.' (Pangyun, a lay Zen practitioner, eight century C.E.) 'Cleave a (piece of) wood, I am there; lift up the stone and you will find Me there.' (The Gospel According to Thomas, pg 43 log. 77, ©1959 E. J. Brill) Chunyi Lin mentioned that he does reverse breathing all day long, and I would say that this is more in the nature of what I think of as "drawing water and chopping wood" in the Ch'an tradition. Nevertheless, I myself am not able to do "reverse breathing"; if I do "reverse breathing", it's the unintentional result of waking up and falling asleep with my sense of place.

slurp up their milkshakes eat up their burgers and fries candy from babies

can't find the church key under grey skies, an old oak lets me know I'm ok

@idquest, That's part of the strangeness of the matter. It's like looking in a mirror; in order to move right in the mirror-image, you have to move left. You need melatonin to wake up and fall asleep, but you may have to look at the movement of the sense of location connected with awareness rather than at the location of the pineal gland itself, in order to set in motion a balance of activity that affects melatonin production. In order to wake up and fall asleep, I look at where my awareness is taking place. Where is the location of my awareness; is it inside my head, is it in my neck and shoulders, did it just bounce to my feet and back? Especially right before you fall asleep, look for the movement of consciousness in the body. I do have ideas about why this comes around to the pineal, for which I rely on the theories of cranial-sacral osteopathy (which are unproven as far as allopathic medicine is concerned). Basically the sense of place in consciousness can produce action faster than you can think about it, like responding to the loss of balance in a fall. If you follow the sense of place in consciousness from one instant to the next and relax, the place of occurrence of consciousness can generate action in posture that aligns the spine and opens feeling to the surface of the body. Look for an ability to feel, rather than what is felt; recognize what is felt, but look for the ability to feel as consciousness takes place. Feeling opened through the sense of place in the occurrence of consciousness allows activity that extends the hips from the pelvis, rotates the pelvis in one direction while rotating the sacrum in the other direction, and permits action in the extensors up the back of the spine (in three sets) to the temporal bones of the skull. The occiput and sphenoid are affected. The pineal rests in the middle of the sphenoid. This explanation encourages me to allow the place of occurrence of consciousness to open feeling. At some point I become aware of my state of mind, and if I am open to falling asleep and to waking up, I find there's a kind of waking rest there. I hope this helps.

Writing on Brad Warner's Hardcore Zen yesterday. Someone there helped me to push my cart along a little farther, and I wanted to share the result here: "I have a friend who passes along information on how psychics receive their visions (as it were). They teach being open to seeing before words, before making sense. Dualism just means the mind is here, and the object of mind there. What if the mind moves, and the object of mind has a part in the placement? And the things that enter the mind before words, before sense, have a part in the placement? If I close my eyes, my mind doesn't seem to be in quite the same place as when my eyes are open. If I look to follow that sense of place from one instant to the next, I fall asleep or wake up as appropriate. This is also the practice of zazen, to me. Can it be taught this way?" There's not a lot of interest in zazen, and there are a lot of folks who have trouble falling asleep, so maybe I should think about what I want to pursue as far as steps and directions. So far it's mostly zazen, with the description of "waking up and falling asleep" coming out of an attempt to put into words the part of the practice that has nothing to do with "zazen", per se.