Maddie

Does anyone know of a sutta that lays out specific causes and effects of kamma? as opposed to one that explains the general principles of kamma?

Recently I have come to understand that "I" am not "my" will, or volition i.e. (the 4th khandha) though for a long time I had assumed I was. But when I realized in regards to "bad habbits" that "I" was not making the decision, that "I" was not wanting (because if "I" was I would obviously have not chosen to have a particular habit or craving, and if I had I could just drop it "at will"). It was weird to realize that I was not in control of the "will". So this lead me to ponder "if I am not my will, if I can see my will as a separate thing, then what is this thing I call "I" to know the will is not me?". So since I knew I was not the "doer" and I was aware of this then I must be the "knower" of this or consciousness or the (5th khandha). But then it occurred to me that for a long time I just "knew" I was my "will" and since it became understood by me that I am not, then it seemed reasonable for me to conclude that I am also not my consciousness. Also who or what is aware that I have a consciousness? So now to the question. If "I" am not my will (4th khandha) and not my consciousness (5th khandha) (nor any of the other khandhas) then who or what is this thing I call me that is aware that I am not these khandhas?

Sometimes I'm not sure if I'm asking the same question a few different ways, but I'm wondering can Vipassana make the issue that your observing seem to flare up?

So I have been doing a lot of Vippasana this weekend looking at various forms of craving. After the last session I have felt unusually tired, dizzy, and disoriented. Can this be a result of meditation or an indication that meditation is doing something?

In discussing the topic of free will with my friends I point out that if the will was truly free then there would not be addictions.

Taiji Bum, yes that occurred to me as well, it does feel like withdraw. TI, thanks for the list. I've been experiencing a few of those exactly as listed. At least its comforting to know its not just me.

well in my particular case I've been meditating for a while, and it seems like I'll get to a point where things really begin to seem like they are settling down, and then bam out of no where craving and stuff get very intense.

Is there anything that explains the difficulties that come up after meditating for a while?

wow simple yet profound! :-)

On a similar note what is it that craves? what is the craver?

Thanks... very good explanation ;-)

Ok this may be a little off topic but its the only meditation thread in the Buddhist section I saw at a glance. What I've noticed is that if I do Vipassana for a while my mind seems to settle down, but if I do Samatha meditation it seems like afterwards that all kinds of crap gets stirred up in my mind. The odd thing is, is that I thought the opposite was supposed to happen?

Something else I've been contemplating. If there is no self (and I believe that there isn't) then what is it that clings to an identity? What is it that resists the loss of identity?

Actually my obsession lately is on the craving which leads to dukkha. It seems that as I keep meditating that I keep realizing how deep, and strong craving is, and how very difficult (though not impossible obviously) it is to let go of. My approach is to apply mindfulness to what ever particular form of craving arises by noting. So if I'm meditating on the breath (which is what I always intend to do, with the Budho mantra) and a strong craving comes to my attention I'll just note it by repeating to myself something like "wanting, wanting, wanting" until it subsides for a bit. I also try to remember that its "just craving" and there is no self behind the craving. I think this is slowly, very slowly having an effect, but I wonder why its so slow, and so difficult to deal with.

I think Bagua is cool, and good for the health, but I don't see how it fits in with Buddhist enlightenment? Where on the eight-fold path would that fit in?

Hey Dawg if I were wanting to go to Thailand and do what you did/are doing what would I have to do?

Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu !!! :-)

This is exactly what happens. No external trigger what so ever and the mind still comes up with stuff to obsess about.

Well that's comforting in a way to hear. I have one particular very persistent and powerful thought pattern that at times flares up so powerfully that it almost takes over and I'm unable to focus on anything else for the duration of the flare up. Its been a bit disconcerting to realize that this happens on its own and I have no control over it.

Good input, thanks. Is it normal or typical that as you begin to let go of thought patterns, see them for what they are, dissolve them, that your mind goes through "withdraw" or "protest"?

Hey Yabyum that sounds like good advice. We do tend to do a lot of stuff on autopilot with out even really knowing that we are doing it or why.

Ok so another question relating to what I assume is the 4th khandha or the will is the issue of the arising of specific cravings. As I already mentioned I understand that I am not my will, and I don't control it, but what is it and how does it operate? What I mean is that sometimes I'll be sitting there minding my own business and strong thoughts, feelings, desires, ect... arise and seemingly out of nowhere. Now I realize this is my will doing its job of wanting things and thinking about things, but understanding the mechanism of what certain things arise sometimes and at other times they do not is beyond my comprehension. Why do things just seem to arise for no apparent reason? And what if anything can I do about it? Especially if the thoughts that arise are unpleasant?

Thanks, good stuff to contemplate. I asked the local monk if consciousness remained upon the death of an arahant, and he said no. I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around that lol. So whats left? what gets enlightened? I thought I'd add that in my pondering of volition that it occurred to me that since kamma arises from intention which to the best of my understanding would be the 4th khandha. Also in looking at what drove will (4th khandha) since it is not "me", I realized that at least on the inner/mental level must also be kamma. So it seems like kamma is made by the will, and works itself out through the will.

I've noticed two conditions lately. As I increase the time I spend sitting in meditation I reach deeper states of stillness which feel very peaceful. At the same time I am increasingly aware of how dukkha pervades everything. One one level its kind of depressing (kind of like when you learned Santa wasn't real as a kid) but on another level it feels liberating.