Maddie

Is there anything that explains the difficulties that come up after meditating for a while?

wow simple yet profound! :-)

On a similar note what is it that craves? what is the craver?

Thanks... very good explanation ;-)

Ok this may be a little off topic but its the only meditation thread in the Buddhist section I saw at a glance. What I've noticed is that if I do Vipassana for a while my mind seems to settle down, but if I do Samatha meditation it seems like afterwards that all kinds of crap gets stirred up in my mind. The odd thing is, is that I thought the opposite was supposed to happen?

Something else I've been contemplating. If there is no self (and I believe that there isn't) then what is it that clings to an identity? What is it that resists the loss of identity?

Actually my obsession lately is on the craving which leads to dukkha. It seems that as I keep meditating that I keep realizing how deep, and strong craving is, and how very difficult (though not impossible obviously) it is to let go of. My approach is to apply mindfulness to what ever particular form of craving arises by noting. So if I'm meditating on the breath (which is what I always intend to do, with the Budho mantra) and a strong craving comes to my attention I'll just note it by repeating to myself something like "wanting, wanting, wanting" until it subsides for a bit. I also try to remember that its "just craving" and there is no self behind the craving. I think this is slowly, very slowly having an effect, but I wonder why its so slow, and so difficult to deal with.

I think Bagua is cool, and good for the health, but I don't see how it fits in with Buddhist enlightenment? Where on the eight-fold path would that fit in?

Hey Dawg if I were wanting to go to Thailand and do what you did/are doing what would I have to do?

Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu !!! :-)

This is exactly what happens. No external trigger what so ever and the mind still comes up with stuff to obsess about.

Well that's comforting in a way to hear. I have one particular very persistent and powerful thought pattern that at times flares up so powerfully that it almost takes over and I'm unable to focus on anything else for the duration of the flare up. Its been a bit disconcerting to realize that this happens on its own and I have no control over it.

Good input, thanks. Is it normal or typical that as you begin to let go of thought patterns, see them for what they are, dissolve them, that your mind goes through "withdraw" or "protest"?

Hey Yabyum that sounds like good advice. We do tend to do a lot of stuff on autopilot with out even really knowing that we are doing it or why.

Ok so another question relating to what I assume is the 4th khandha or the will is the issue of the arising of specific cravings. As I already mentioned I understand that I am not my will, and I don't control it, but what is it and how does it operate? What I mean is that sometimes I'll be sitting there minding my own business and strong thoughts, feelings, desires, ect... arise and seemingly out of nowhere. Now I realize this is my will doing its job of wanting things and thinking about things, but understanding the mechanism of what certain things arise sometimes and at other times they do not is beyond my comprehension. Why do things just seem to arise for no apparent reason? And what if anything can I do about it? Especially if the thoughts that arise are unpleasant?

Thanks, good stuff to contemplate. I asked the local monk if consciousness remained upon the death of an arahant, and he said no. I'm still having a hard time wrapping my mind around that lol. So whats left? what gets enlightened? I thought I'd add that in my pondering of volition that it occurred to me that since kamma arises from intention which to the best of my understanding would be the 4th khandha. Also in looking at what drove will (4th khandha) since it is not "me", I realized that at least on the inner/mental level must also be kamma. So it seems like kamma is made by the will, and works itself out through the will.

I've noticed two conditions lately. As I increase the time I spend sitting in meditation I reach deeper states of stillness which feel very peaceful. At the same time I am increasingly aware of how dukkha pervades everything. One one level its kind of depressing (kind of like when you learned Santa wasn't real as a kid) but on another level it feels liberating.

Sadhu sadhu sadhu :-)

Nice story, yes it seems you spontaneously entered the perspective of the "watcher" and set aside for a moment the "doer". I definitely agree with self compassion and forgiveness but I think we should have that attitude towards ourselves and others all the time as opposed to just sometimes. There is never really a good time to be "non-compassionate". If it helps I just read an article right before I got on here that said that today parents don't let kids experience enough risk and because of this kids are not properly maturing like they did in the past. To apply it to your example, in the past (or with you watching lol) kid gets a scrape and learns not to do stuff like that again. Now kid does not get scrape because parents are overly protective and does not get that same learning process. I should add that its the "doer" or you can call it the "will" that wants you to feel guilty in the first place. The "will" or "ego" ever afraid of coming to an end is always seeking to perpetuate its own existence. One way it goes about this is to try and cause us to feel ego produced things like guilt. Usually most people once they feel guilt, identify with that feeling as being them, and they feel guilty, and this strengthens the ego, and the ego gets what it wants. Compassion on the other hand is above the level of ego, it comes from your true "self" (for lack of a better word). So if the ego were to produce guilt and you recognize this as just a construct of the ego, and the ego as just a mental process which is NOT you, and you decide to be compassionate to yourself as opposed to feel guilty then the ego truly does become somewhat diminished.

I read Bill Brodi's book "White Fat Cow" and he does a very good job of explaining that "destiny" or "fate" is simply a term for the way that your karma plays out. But it is not fixed. You can change your karma so thus you can change your fate.

As to a direct answer to techniques for the throat chakra here are a few suggestions. Chant the throat chakra sound which is "HAM". Place Blue Lace Agate on your throat when you lay down. Use mindfulness and ask yourself why you feel that way, and explore the thoughts and feelings associated with it. :-)

Things do get quite interesting indeed when we begin to look at those things for the first time that we previously spent so much effort in the past to avoid at all costs ;-)

Thought I'd share a recent insight I obtained about my ego, and thought I'd share it to clarify my own understanding of the insight by writing it down, and with the hopes that perhaps someone might benefit from it themselves. First I want to give credit to Ajahn Brahm's talks as they have been invaluable in giving me deeper understanding into the issue of ego. In addition to his talks and other teachings I read on the topic, I applied the wisdom I had learned through hearing to my Vipassana meditation, and then realized that much of what stresses me out is the idea/feeling/notion within my mind of "not being good enough". Now obviously this thought in and of itself alone is enough to cause suffering. Who wants to feel "not good enough"? But it was the ways that my mind reacts to that thought that were quite interesting. I saw how this thought (not being good enough) gave rise to other non-beneficial thoughts. My mind trying to do the best it knows how thought that the antidote might be conceit, criticism, judgment, ect... These in turn caused their very own set of problems like stress, anger, depression, anxiety and so and so forth. For example if my sub-conscious thinks "I am not good enough" this of course creates a bad feeling associated with that thought. Now my mind is experiencing that bad feeling but because the feeling is unpleasant now my mind searches for a solution to this new problem. Because of delusion my mind (mistakenly) thinks that if I feel somehow inadequate then the solution is to make this feeling go away through another thought that will counter-balance the first thought (of not being good enough). What it comes up with is to tell me that far from not being good enough, that instead I am better than good enough.. in other words... conceit. Now thoughts of conceit exist with in my mind, but so does the original thought of "not being good enough" because the new thought did not remove the original thought, so now there are two contradictory thoughts with in my mind (how fun). Because the original thought of "not being good enough" contradicts the new thought of conceit, the new thought of conceit feels challenged. In order for conceit to effectively "do its job" of being the antidote to thoughts of not being good enough, it has to "win" out over those thoughts. In order to do this conceit then produces its own "antidote" of "judgment". Conceit's hope is that judgment will find criteria that will support its cause. So ideally as far as conceit is concerned judgment will find for example someone else and judge them as inferior and therefore me superior and now conceit is strengthened. The problem now is that there are now three thoughts. "Not being good enough", conceit, and judgment. The judgment being judgment and doing what judgment does and judging will then see the other two thoughts of "not being good enough" and "conceit" and judge them as well. When judgment finds aspects of the other two parts of the mind as being undesirable, then judgment gives rise to criticism. So now there are four thought process' in the mind, and they are often at war with each other due to their very nature. This creates a lot of suffering. Criticism criticizes judgment, conceit, and not being good enough. Judgment judges criticism, conceit, and not being good enough. Conceit when judged or criticized can either create more judgment or denial as to try and avoid the judgment and criticism. With denial now there is another thought process that was made to help us, but actually hurts us instead. So as can be seen one non-beneficial thought process gives rise to another non-beneficial thought process which is why using negative thought processes to "remove" negative thought processes will never work, but only make the problem worse. The answer instead is to apply "Metta" (loving-kindness) to the thought processes. If you judge judgment you will only create more judgment. But if instead you apply Metta to judgment, and you tell the judgment (judgment I open the door of my heart to you, I accept you just as you are, I'm going to be kind to you regardless) judgement is disarmed. There is nothing to judge, no more negative thought processes to create. So first you have to become aware of the thought processes in the first place. How can one apply Metta to something it is not aware of? But then after you use insight to become aware of negative thought processes, applying Metta to them is a good way to go about making them relax, and making peace with them so that they no longer fight you.

Nice insight into the ego. My own experience has been similar. In practicing mindfulness meditation I have found the RAIN formula to be useful. R- recognize what arises in your mind. A- accept it (don't be harsh on yourself or try to make what arises "go away") I- investigate it N- non-identification (realizing that your thoughts and conditioning are not who you are). The simple act of bringing awareness to what arises in the mind has been very useful in lessening ego's ability to wreak havoc on my peace of mind. Sometimes I actually laugh in meditation as I begin to get a good look at what the ego (my conditioning) is telling me or actually wanting.