Maddie

IMO the tendency of the threads dealing with obtaining powers becoming so argumentative is indicative of the problem with seeking power. Power corrupts. I'm not saying that everyone who studies Mo Pai or other arts that develop powers are power hungry. Heck as an acupuncture student I'd love to be able to do what Chang did during his acupuncture treatments for the benefit of my patients, BUT seeking power for power's sake is going down a slippery slope. Obtaining powers as a side affect of cultivation with other goals is safer ego wise.

well the only thing I saw you talk about was the mountain sentence so yea that for sure. But I'd love to hear about empty mind as well, and any thing else too.

care to elaborate that? lol

In addition to using qigong for this purpose, do you suppose yoga can be used to the same effect?

Hey Ice, thanks for the info on the book. As far as my goal, yes it is enlightenment, at the very least an optimal situation next life in order to achieve enlightenment asap.

I do, though its been less lately due to the fact that I am spending a lot of time meditating and then afterwards I'm kind of tired.

Thanks that's brilliant! * I love the part about being bored meant that you missed the steps in its formation!

I was actually going to comment on your quote that you had about doing physical exercises. I agree that it would be good to do, but here is my dilemma. My first priority is to meditate in order to bring all my mental and emotional stuff into balance. It works for this, yet I have found that several hours of meditation (and it takes several hours to get balance at this point) leaves me feeling tired. On top of that I suppose due to meditation I am eating very little lately. Reason is, is if I eat too much for what ever reason this makes desires stronger, as though its desire fuel lol. So I'm eating two small meals a day, I would even eat less but less than that I can't really do anything including my hours at the clinic. But if I eat any more than that I notice meditation is more difficult. So the combination of lots of meditation and not eating a lot makes the idea of doing physical exercise at the moment seem very hard. In the past I was very into martial arts, and I mean the MMA type stuff where I would train hard constantly, but the catch was I was kind of sex obsessed like most MMA guys lol. So I would like to some how find a way of doing my meditation AND being able to do physical stuff as well.

I'm sure glad there is someone who makes sense of this lol, cause when this was going on I was like whaaaa???? haha

Thanks for the answers. I guess I should specify my question about meditation. I already realized that Taoism has meditation, but what I'm wanting to know is what are the main categories and what are their ultimate purposes. For example in Buddhism you have Samantha and Vipassana as far as categories go. The goal of Samantha is to deepen your concentration, and the goal of Vipassana is to have insight into the workings of your mind, and the ultimate goal of both is to help you to reach enlightenment. So what about Taoist meditation? or qigong meditation which ever way you want to look at / label it.

My pondering for today is an experience I had during meditation. Ok so for my first meditation today I did Samantha. I found that Samantha is my least favorite meditation as its boring and my mind has nothing to "monkey" around with lol. Ok so other than realizing how much my mind craves stimulation nothing spectacular. The second meditation I did was Vispassana where I observed what ever thoughts and feelings arose. At one point in the midst of it I became aware of another desire flare up. Once again I felt it in my heart. So I simply observed it for a while. Then at some point the buzzing and sensation I felt in my heart rose up my left carotid artery. I followed it up from my heart, through my neck, and then into my head where I felt it on the left side of my head, face, and then what felt like the left side of my brain. As I was doing mindfulness I didn't try to contemplate what this all meant but simply observed and just noted that I would contemplate it once I finished which is what I'm doing now lol. Then I simply observed it pulsating in my left brain for a while until the sensation died down and the whole desire flare up subsided. A little while after that it seemed that the whole facade of being me became apparent and I saw how what I call me was just a segment along a continuous stream of consciousness that was constantly changing so what I called me now, hadn't always been me and would not remain "me". Then I saw how that stream of consciousness was really nothing and at the same time the same as everything else. (Man this is so hard to put into words lol) It was one of the most unusual experiences that I've had during meditation. Anyway just trying to make sense of that left brain thing, and wondering why one day the qi goes to one organ and the next day it goes to another? Hmmm.

I want to make sure I understand the types of meditation, what they are and what they are not. So the two (or three depending on how you classify it) types of meditation I have been doing are mantra (Zhunti mantra specifically) and mindfulness (both Samantha and Vispassana. Now as far as Mantra goes it seems rather straight forward. You chant your mantra while trying to stay focused to yourself saying it and not letting your mind wander, and when it does bring it back to the mantra. As far as I understand Samantha its pretty much the same as I just described but no mantra, at least no verbal mantra. The manner in which I do it is to think "Buh" on the inhale and "Duh" on the exahale. Again just focusing on that and when the mind wanders bringing it back to that one point of focus. I actually find this one to be the most difficult and least favorite because my mind desperately wants to be engaged in something lol. My understanding of Vispassana is that you welcome what ever arises and simply observe it with out becoming involved in it. So do I seem to have a correct understanding of the types of meditation? If anyone has any pointers and/or advice about any of these I'd be happy to hear it.

The insulting sequence is very much a part of the five element system. It's so foundational that we had to learn it the first semester of TCM school before we could get anywhere near a patient with a needle.

I'm pretty familiar with several Taoist practices but less familiar with the Taoist philosophical outlook on certain issues. Since philosophically I'm more familiar with the Buddhist approach (though less with their practices lol) I'm wondering what Taoism's views are on a few topics. 1. Karma and Rebirth. 2. Enlightenment 3. Meditation 4. The monastic order 5. Ethics 6. Other realms of existence I would appreciate anyone who has a firm grasp on Taoist philosophical understanding to elaborate on these please.

Yea, well today I made an effort to engage in conversation with them less and I did not get as tired. On the other side of the equation I've noticed more dramatic results with my acupuncture patients.

You know that's interesting as it sheds a little light on some stuff. I had mentioned a little yesterday that the female interns at the clinic have been extra chatty lately. I've noticed if I hit that 4 hour meditation mark before going to the clinic they are especially chatty. Granted I've not had any experiences as dramatic as yours lol, but I have noticed an attention difference, and of course I ponder the irony since now I'm trying to avoid a whole lot of female interaction but in the past I would have died for that kind of attention haha. I also noticed that when they are around me my scalp tingles with various electrical sensations but I'm not sure what to make of that. Today in clinic I deliberately tried to avoid too much conversation with the gals and when I got home I was not nearly as tired but more irritable lol. This stuff can be rather confusing lol.

Hmm interesting. I remember I nabbed the Taoist Yoga book off the shelf at a book store a couple years ago mainly because I remember you talking about it a lot and then I happened past it and thought "oh I should get this, it might come in handy later lol". I might need to take a peek at it, though I remember it being hard to understand last time I did. So I just did another session of meditation and now I feel less irritable, and also I didn't mind doing the meditation as much this time around. It seems that at this point in my life I need to get to the 3-4 hour a day mark to really notice much. Prior to that there is lots of monkey mind lol. As far as the anger today went I sort of chalked it up to my Liver channel being cleared out today as Brodi points to in that article of his. I think the term "worry" I used earlier wasn't really the best term to use. Its more like my mind was going a million miles an hour wanting to know and think, which I chalked up to my Spleen channel being cleared. At the moment I feel pretty good, but then again I finally reached that 3+ hour point when that happens for me now. One thing I'm very curious about is why is it so difficult for you to get back to the point you were at, at 2000?

Hey, yea I typically do two types of meditation which I alternate. The first is mantra. The second is Mindfulness. The specific kind of mindfulness I'm going for is Samatha meditation at the moment and yes I do the same thing as you except as opposed to "I" I used "Buh" and the inhale and "Doh" on the exhale... so Buh-do,buh-do,buh-do. Earlier this week when I was having that desire flare up issue it got so loud it was a bit distracting so during those days I did mindfulness of the body and thoughts (since that is where I was experiencing that) as it was too loud to do regular Samatha. Happily for me I just finished a legitimate Samatha meditation as its supposed to be done :-). In some ways an actual Samatha session is more difficult because the mind has less to keep it busy (which is the point I know haha). Brodi said to do one practice you love and one that you hate. Well I like mantra and really don't enjoy Samatha at all lol, so I guess I have that covered. I noticed Brodi isn't too keen on the small universe meditation, what are your thoughts on that? *edit: oh I saw this on Brodi's site, and this is exactly how I've been feeling. Yes taming that monkey mind is challenging lol http://www.meditationexpert.com/meditation-techniques/m_basic_meditation_lessons_and_principles_and_techniques.htm

Then be grateful lol, its indicative of a health problem.

Yea doesn't happen to me either, but basically you jizz in your pj's when your sleeping.

Here is some basic Kidney Yin def. info. Keep in mind that you don't have to have all the manifestations as it can manifest in various ways. http://agelessherbs.com/tcm/kidney-yin-deficiency/ *Hmm as far as a book goes I'm sure any basic TCM book about foundations or diagnosis would have all of that in there. Not sure of one that just focuses on Kidney yin def. alone.

who said something was wrong with it?

For lack of a better place to post this, I chose to this thread as I've already noted some of my meditation experiences here. My last few meditations I've noticed whats been coming up during mindfulness seems to be now more Liver and some Spleen stuff, as opposed to the Heart and Lung stuff of a few days ago. Seems now that as I sit in meditation instead of desire coming up from the heart as it was, now its more so planning/decision making/ problem solving/ anger of the Liver and GB. I even had that liver cramp type feeling that you often get if your running or swimming. I suppose now that the Liver is taking its turn in using the qi from meditation to clear out blockages? I've also noticed my desire to know and learn and my tendency to ponder has increased (which can be distracting during meditation) so I attribute this to my Spleen as those are its roles. This trend seems to indicate that my organs are working their way down. First heart and lungs, and now liver and spleen. I wonder why that is?

lol its ok you don't have to agree with me. Though as far as your observation that Kidney def. can lead to lower back pain that is correct. As far as the comment about someone getting drunk and killing someone, I don't really understand what that is in reference to? As far as the minister-fire of the heart, it still relates to the kidney. Technically there are two heart fires, the emperor fire of the heart itself and the minister (or prime minister fire) of the pericardium. Now the base of the minister fire is ming-men which has its base and origin in the Kidney, specifically the Kidney yang. So ideally yin and yang are supposed to balance each other, but if you have Kidney yin def. then proportionately you will have an excess of yang, often called deficiency fire as its not a true excess, but a proportional excess. Anyways this excess yang then stokes the ming-men fire of the Kidney which then rises to stoke the minister fire of the pericardium which surrounds the heart. This is the whole five element cycle of control. Ideally the Kidney water controls the Heart fire. If you don't have enough Kidney water (yin) your heart fire will blaze up. As the heart houses the shen (spirit) it is responsible for our dreams. So if one is having sexual dreams which lead to emission then on the surface this can be attributed to the heart fire (branch), but on a deeper level this is really the result of there not being enough kidney water to keep the heart fire in balance (root). Hope that makes sense. Btw strictly from a personal experience perspective I don't understand nocturnal emission from the dream point of view, because if I ever have a sexual dream I get too excited and wake up before any release happens (typically I've been disappointed it worked out that way haha)

I understand the point your making, but its important not to muddle two distinct concepts which are taoist retention practices and TCM for the lay person. The taoists as you correctly stated did not want to loose semen during sleep or any other time so they could not loose jing, but rather convert that jing into higher forms of energy for spiritual practice. The idea of nocturnal emission for the lay person from a TCM point of view is different. This perspective is not assuming someone is a taoist but just your average joe. All TCM is saying is that if you have a nocturnal emission then its because your kidneys don't have enough yin to hold it in. Of course this discussion is not new lol. At my school my professors were talking about this and how in their experience 99.99% of every case they treated of nocturnal emission was due to kidney yin def. Nocturnal emission is common in the west, as is PMS which TCM also states is not normal. Now is suppose if you define normal as common then perhaps it is normal, but if you define normal as in the way your body is supposed to function in an optimal state then it is not normal. It's also been my personal experience as an intern (and all the other interns I know) that in every single case of nocturnal emission any of us has ever treated its ALWAYS with out exception been Kidney yin def. It's also noteworthy that in these cases of "normal" nocturnal emission that once treated they almost always stop. Now I have one professor who is particularly interesting. He is from Taiwan and his family lineage in TCM goes back many generations. They have quite a reputation in Taiwan. Any how as I mentioned this debate is not new at all, and one day in class a few of the students who were of the "nocturnal emission is normal camp" were discussing with the professor all the same points that have been made in this thread today. Anyways they finally got him to concede that technically not every single case of nocturnal emission was always 100% from Kidney yin def. But the answer that followed did not make any of them feel any better about it lol. At first the professor looked hesitant and then told us to never tell patients this because they would think we were nuts. He said that there are a few cases where a patient will have nocturnal emission but when you check out their Kidney yin it is fine. He said in this case sometimes the patient is the victim of a succubus attack at night. Apparently the succubus wants to steal the mans jing so it has sex with the man while he is sleeping. He said in Taiwan this is considered very serious, but again emphasized that this is very rare and to not worry about it. But personally I have as of yet to see a man who has nocturnal emissions who does not have Kidney yin def.