Maddie

I agree Non, but sometimes you have to wonder which came first the chicken of the egg lol, because before I got really tired I was doing both physical qigong movements such as the 8 brocades, and martial arts as well. After I got super tired then I had no energy for just about anything. I think I tend to agree which what you said about things surfacing and the changes in the energy body.

So have you worked extensively on clearing out emotional blockages and then become extremely fatigued after wards?

Similar to your experiences eh? then I'm glad to hear its not just me :-)

Yea it is very warming, I can feel it heating up my middle warmer (triple warmer) but thats a good sign cause the middle warmer turns food into chi :-). I've continued to ponder how my chi level got so low in the first place, especially since I have been doing retention for a while and not loosing all that energy. On the other hand I have been doing a LOT of other practices such as the inner smile and healing sounds to a great degree and I'm sure that uses up a lot of energy if blockages are being removed. At least by tonifying my spleen and middle warmer I think I am compensating for the extreme draw on my chi from my other practices. The reason I feel that my inner smile / healing sounds practies have been using a lot of energy, is because the emotional results that I wanted in the first place are coming now. So while it has been rather exhausting, I'd say it was worth it because my emotional state is a lot better, even factoring in my bad relationship issues which are still quite stressful.

I have taken it as tea in the past. Now I am taking the ginger capsuls in concentrated form. Usually I will take it right before a meal. It seems to be having the effect on my spleen that I wanted :-)

continuing to take ginger and my fatigue is lessening... strengthening the digestive system seems to be very important in increasing energy levels.

Most of the sources I have studied say to start in wuji position with the arms down.

I don't know how I missed this thread cause working on the organs is one of my main practices :-)!!! I mainly do inner smile and healing sounds. I get really good results from this ;-).

Just sort of a note to myself and anyone else who may be interested. Back to the Spleen side of this issue... I just realized that I had not realized that my appetite had become very very small lately. I'm sure this is due to all the worrying and pondering and stress related to my marriage. As overthinking and worry and stress deplete the spleen, and as the spleen is responsible for a healthy appetite this makes sense. For the last couple days I have been taking healthy doses of Ginger which strengthens the spleen, and now I am eating like hungry hungry hippos, and the fatigue is slowly diminishing. :-)

speaking of the planes of existence has raised another question.... I am going to assume that just as the creatures that fill these planes have evolved, then so have the realms. What was there before humans evolved? Did our hominoid ancestors have their own realm or did they fit into the animal realm? or did we belong to another realm before human evolution reached the stage it is at now?

Markern, yea the earth energy and grounding thing has long been problematic for me too. Interestingly enough the earth element is the element of both the bottom chakra, and the spleen (interesting eh?). Perhaps that is why I have been focusing on both of these now that I am tired at the same time. Has pilaties given you a very noticable benefit? I have found pilaties interesting for some time, just have not done it as of yet, but at this point of painting myself yellow and running down the street in the buff singing 'god save the queen' would increase my basical constitutional vitality I think I'd almost do it :-P haha. I tend to think a lot, and be in my head a lot, and this from a TCM point of view burns a lot of spleen energy. Perhaps that is why the thinking type personalities are not really associated with heavey physical type jobs such as construction n such? Most of my professors in college tended to be on the thin side as well. My brothers-in-law on the other hand are contractors, stocky, heafty, yet don't strike you as "thinkers". Perhaps this earth energy either gets used as thinking energy or doing energy, of course I don't want to become more of a doer if it means a block head lol. This is an interesting balance to ponder, but perhaps I should not ponder it too much haha, round and round we go :-D.

Mal and Kate thanks for the good wishes, I think having "space" will definately help. I plan to devote more time to my practice once I have that "space". Kate what xactely do you mean by "mind-drawing qigong"? I'm doing a lil experiment to support or disprove my latest theory that I mentioned above, and so far this morning have not done the cold draw. My libido is slightly elevated (meaning I can sort of tell I have one lol, but its nothing to major yet) yet at the same time I do not feel like the walking dead with fatigue, so that is interesting. I have always been on the deficient side in regards to those lower chakras that have to do with mundane reality (which is why I started that threat about mundane reality a while back)and physical vitality (which is why I am tired a lot), and perhaps that is why sending energy into them and opening them up now seems like such a black hole and bottomless pit? If this indeed turns out to be the case then perhaps I should at least at the beginning maybe only draw 50% of my jing up, and keep the rest at hand to fuel me. ;-)

Actually in about two weeks I am headed home to Texas ;-). I was doing a little research and I found something that seems plausable. http://www.kheper.net/topics/chakras/Perineum.htm This chakra - called in Taoism Hui Yin - is located between the genitals and the anus; the part of the body called the perineum. It constitutes the lowest of the Yin or descending energy chakras, and is the lower meeting point of the Governor (Yang) and the Function or Conception Vessel (Yin) channels. Through the legs and feet it is the main link with the universal Earth Ch'i or yin energy. It also connects with the central channel that runs along the centre of the body to the Crown Chakra. Through this nadi flows the Heaven chi energy (Universal Yang) from the crown chakra. The Perineum centre - often but incorrectly called the Muladhara or Base Chakra - thus constitutes the red or broadcasting pole in the universal energy stream that enters through the crown centre (the violet pole). The Hui Yin is located between the genitals and the anus; the part of the body called the perineum. When the Perineum is strong, the organs remain firm and healthy; when it is weak the organs lose cohesiveness and Chi energy drains away. Because this Centre is the gate through which Ch'i energy from the other organs can be either retained or lost, it is called the "Gate of Life and Death." This centre constitutes the lowest of the Yin or descending energy chakras, and is the lower meeting point of the Governor or Yang, and the Conception or Yin nadis or channels. It is connected to the element Earth and hence corresponds to the physical plane of existence, and is (through the feet) the main link with the Earth Chi energy. The following sketch, from Mantak Chia's book on Awakening Healing Energy, illustrates the way that the Perineum centre is connected by four primary nadis or energy channels: The first runs along the centre of the body to the Crown Chakra. Through this central nadi flows the Heaven Ch'i energy (Universal Yang) from the crown chakra. The exploration of the universe is the attraction for this universal Yang energy. The Perineum centre - often but incorrectly called the Muladhara or Base Chakra - thus constitutes the red or broadcasting pole in the universal energy stream that enters through the crown centre (the violet pole). Barbara Brennan's Coccygeal Center seems to confuse the Perineal and the Muladhara chakras. The second connects to the soles of the feet and allows the absorption of Earth Chi energy (Universal Yin). This Earth Ch'i energy plays a central role in shamanism and neo-paganism; it is the energy of Gaia, Mother Earth. (e.g. the "Rainbow Serpent" of Australian Aboriginal mythology). When you walk barefoot on the ground and you get a good feeling from that, that is the Earth or Yin energy. The third - the Yin or Conception channel - connects to and receives chi from the navel and genital centres. And the fourth - the Yang or Governor channel - connects to the rear Coccygeal and Sacral Centres and receives from them universal nature energy, as well as transmitting Chi from the the navel and genital centres during the Microcosmic orbit. Correspondences: Element: Earth Colours: Brennan - Red. Associated Psychological states: Balanced and Open: You are grounded and comfortable with earthy reality; you are not afraid of dirt or germs. Overactive: You may be fixated at the anal level, and may have a crude or childish sense of humour. If this chakra takes over the normal role of the Genital Chakra, you will prefer anal to genital sex; if you are male homosexual you will hang out in public toilets to find sexual partners. Malfunctioning: You may suffer from obsessive-compulvise behaviour; obsessive tidiness, a fear of germs, etc. Everything in your house has to absolutely spotless. Blocked: You have difficulty relating to earthy things, and may feel emotionally insecure [Chia, p. ]. http://www.kheper.net/topics/chakras/Coccygeal.htm The Coccygeal Centre - sometimes identified with the Muladhara or "Root Support" chakra in Tantric literature, and the Chang Qiang in Taoism - is located by the coccyx or "tailbone" and the base of the spine. This chakra is the first of the yang or ascending energy centres, and according to Mantak Chia one of its roles is to transform and refine sexual energy and Universal earth (Yin) Chi before they enter the higher centres. [Chia, p.204] In the Tantric Kundalini-yoga system the four petals of the Muladhara Chakra proper correspond to the psychological states of greatest joy, natural pleasure, delight in controlling passions, and blissfulness in concentration [Goswami, p.276]. All these qualities represent the bliss of realising the Divine in the physical body. The highest and most complete forms of spirituality do not reject the body, but see it as the vehicle for the transmutation of the body and the spirit together. It can be assumed that the Coccygeal chakra, as the lower octave or resonance of the Muladhara, also embodies these qualities to some extent. Mantak Chia suggests that this Centre (along with the Sacral Chakra above it) is related to reincarnation, past lives, and repeated physical embodiment [Chia, p.204]. According to Barbara Brennan it is related to the quantity of physical energy in the being, and the will to live in physical reality. [brennan, p.72] The Coccygeal chakra represents the element Earth, but corresponds to the subtle physical or etheric (subtle body) reality, rather than the gross physical plane represented by the Perineal Chakra. But because of its proximity to the Perineal, and their mutual symbolic association with the element Earth, the Coccygeal Centre is confused in both traditional Tantra and modern Thesophical and New Age thought with the Perineal Centre. In actual fact, these two centres are quite different; the Perineal being the lowest of the "Yin" or descending chi or Feeling Centres, and the red pole of the central nadi, whilst the Coccygeal is the first of the "Yang" or ascending Chi or Will Chakras, and represents the Shakti or Power Pole that complements the Shiva or Consciousness/Spirit pole above the head. Many modern writers compound the this confusion by associating this chakra with the adrenal glands and the kidneys, but both those organs pertain to chakras located somewhat higher up the spine. Correspondences: Spokes/Petals: Hindu Tantra - 4; Leadbeater - 4; Tansley - 4; Paulson - 4 Element: Hindu Tantra - Earth (Yellow Square) Colours: Hindu Tantra - Yellow (petals: red, yellow, and golden); Leadbeater - Fiery Orange-Red; Hills - Red; Paulson - Brilliant Orange-Red; Brennan - scarlet-red. Associated Psychological states: Open and Balanced: You have a powerful will to live, are full of physical energy and potency, and give a strong impression of power and vitality [brennan, p.72]. You are able to express yourself easily; and tend to be the "life of the party". You are comfortable with physical contact. You are able to live in and enjoy the present moment [beasley, pp.210, 217]. Overactive: You have an inability to appreciate abstract or subtle things, and depend on concrete reality and immediate external stimulii. Unbalanced: You like to dominate or bully others. You tend towards physical violence. Blocked: Most of your physical vitality is blocked, and you do not make a strong physical impression. You lack physical power and coordination, avoid physical activity, and probably have a weak or sickly constitution [brennan, p.72]. Ok so this website that I pasted from describes each point on the MCO in some detail. Ever since I began doing the Cold Draw I seem to be experienceing the symptoms of the "Blocked" category on both the Perinium and Coxyx points. This also happens to be about as far as I have done the cold draw so far as well. So here is my theory... I began doing the cold draw to reduce my sex drive which it has been extremely effective for this because the energy is being removed from my sex organs. On the other hand all of this energy is now being directed into these areas where I seem to be experiencing the blockage symptoms of low vitality among other things. So thus I suppose that the lowered libido and the lowered vitality are due to the same thing.... being .... the vast majority of my sexual energy is being absorbed by these areas as these blockages are being dealt with. Sound plausable?

That is interesting. Ok this raises a question I have wondered about. When you read old accounts of the 'gods' you read a lot about animal sacrifice. Was there a real reason for this? Did this actually do anything for the gods? I did not realize that the gods were mortal, I assumed they were immortal.

Here are some things I have been curious about lately. Mythical creatures, fairies, gnomes, ect... from folk lore. Do they have any basis in the actual spirit world? If so what are they, what do they do? Are they simply beings living out their existence seperate from ours, or do they interact with us, or what? Do we through our various incarnations exist in these various realms? What does it mean to be in the human realm? What are the advantages and disadvantages to being human as opposed to something else? I have also pondered lately that Jehovah of the Old Testament seems to be a rather powerful being, but does not strike me as enlightened due to his jealousy, and temper. So what was/is he? So I guess my overall question is I want to know more about the various life forms in these various realms, what are they, what do they do, how did they get there (if such questions are even answerable).

I don't know if this is just a conicidence, but I have recently been doing the cold draw as I stated above to the exclusion of the big draw. So for about a month now I have for all practical purposes eliminated my sex drive (which is what I was trying to do). Now for the conicidence part, I have noticed that almost every time after I do it I feel extremely fatigued. The symptoms seem to be the same as Spleen Qi deficency, so I don't know if this just happens to coincide with Spleen qi deficiency, or if somehow doing the big draw is producing the same symptoms? Fire dragon had mentioned that perhaps the cold draw was clearing out some blockages or stagnation and maybe this was making me tired, I don't know. What I do know is the only thing I have been doing differently lately is the cold draw, and that lately I have been extremely tired. I wonder if there is any connection?

Fire Dragon, thanks for the reply, your answers made a lot of sense. Rainbow as far as my marrige dilemas, I think she is in more denial than I am, so therefore she does not deal with it in the same way as I do. As to how this relates to the spleen post that I posted earlier, naturally due to these problems I ponder what to do a lot, and of course this is bad/weakening to the spleen. As to your second two answers I found them to be very insightful. I've sort of suspected that my practice(s) have triggered self healing which most likely uses a great deal of energy reserves. As far as relaxation practices go, I have found the inner smile to be quite relaxing, but up to this point I have had no specific practice dedicated solely to this.

Yea I pretty much have not been doing a lot of practice just sort of out of default (not enough energy to do any practice lol. I was doing a bit of research and I think I may have narrowed down my dilema. I suspected Spleen qi deficiency which is why I was taking the Ginger, and now that I found this list of symptoms I really susupect this is my issue.... Spleen Qi Deficiency________________________________________________________________________________________ Symptoms of Spleen Qi Deficiency Weakness, lethargy Pale, bright face Shallow breathing Low, soft voice Little desire to speak Poor appetite Prolonged headache Fatigue Loose stools Lethargy Dizziness Tired eyes Dislike cold greasy foods Headache after exertion Symptoms are worse in the morning Abdominal discomfort which feels better when pressure is applied Indigestion Bloating and gas Weak limbs Tongue Pale or normal tongue. May have swollen sides Pulse Weak pulse Related Conditions Gastric or duodenal ulcer Dyspepsia Hepatitis Anemia Herbs Used For Spleen Qi Deficiency These are just some of the herbs that are believed to help spleen qi deficiency Codonopsis Ginseng Astragalus Jujube Dates Foods to Strengthen the Spleen Beef Root vegetables Warm foods Soups Warming spices, such as black pepper, ginger, cumin References Kaptchuk TJ. The Web That Has No Weaver: Understanding Chinese Medicine. Chicago: Contemporary (McGraw-Hill) 2000 Lu, H. Chinese Natural Cures, New York: Black Dog and Leventhal Publishers, 1994.

Just want to say so far I am finding this thread extremely interesting, and look forward to hearing more :-)

Here is an exercise that I do from time to time that I read about in Dr. Glen Moris' book. Hang up a mobile, and project your chi at one end or the other in order to spin it in the direction that you intend. I think its a great excersize, it really helps to get the feel for chi, and chi control.

I have never brought this up before, but a couple years ago right before I began this path I am on now (doing Qigong) I was dabbeling with astral projection. Now I have only dabbled with astral projection a little, and while doing so my perception is a bit foggy, but I believe that I came into contact with a martial arts master of some sort who agreed to teach me if I agreed to follow his guidance. Since that time I have been doing Qigong for a couple years now, and have felt that while on my path I have been getting pointers, and guidance from time to time. Its rather subtel, but I can still preceive it when it comes.

I'd say I have noticed this effect. I work at a pizza joint and all the young pizza girls get very flirty. If I do release I notice they tend to get less flirty, and then the longer I retain and build up my jing and chi the more flirty they get again.

This has been my experience as well. I wrote a rather lengthly theory a few weeks ago about this very topic (about women being Middle Dan Tien centered, and men being Lower Dan Tien centered .. primarily) It was in the Heart Center/ Middle Dan Tien thread here it is.... ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "Posted 16 September 2010 - 09:03 AM I just woke up this morning and I had this dream that I feel gave me an important insight. There is the heart center which lies in the Middle Dan Tien, and the sexual center which is closer to the domain of the Lower Dan Tien. It has been my observation that people with blocked heart centers tend to be more focused on sex, while people who have blocked sexual centers seem to be more focused on the emotional aspect of relationships. Think of it as a PVC pipe with water flowing through it. Now lets say I drilled two holes in this pipe. As long as both holes are clean water is going to flow out of both holes more or less equally. Now lets say that one hole becomes clogged or blocked. This will have the effect of raising the water pressure in the remaining hole. So lets say one has their heart center blocked. Then that would seem to indicate that more pressure would tend to flow out of the sexaul center. Now it would seem that for what ever reason that a lot of men (and of course some women too) tend to be more straight foward "mission minded" less emotional in regards to sex as compared to women. Women on the other hand tend to be a little more problematic when it comes to achieving an orgasm than men (and usually are more sexually hesitant), but also seem to emphasise the emotional component of a relation ship then men. This would suggest to me that in general men have more problems with blockages in their heart center, and women have more problems with blockages in their sexual center (and yes I know there are always exceptions). The man with a blockage in the heart center would have more pressure trying to escape their sexual center, and vice versa with the woman. It is easy to see how this would not only create a great deal of internal frustration (sex obsessed man, emotional woman) but inter-relationship issues as well. To the woman the man would seem to not care enough about issues of the heart, and to the man it would seem hard to get into the womans pants. In my observations on homosexual couples, women who have become lesbians often tell me that their relationships with women are much more soft and tender than with men. Homosexual men seem to be highly promiscuous changing partners often. This behavior tends to reinforce my theory on where blockages tend to predominate in the various genders. A third category might be the serious scholar / nerd who might be blocked in both the lower centers and only open in the Upper Dan Tien, the kind of person who seems uninterested in either sex or emotional relationships, but only in study and contemplation. So then I suppose that the idea state is of course to have all areas unblocked so that in all aspects of life we remiain well blanaced. Yet if in a certain aspect of life we do seem to be unblanaced, then understanding why we have such an imbalance is likely the first set in finding a solution to that imbalance." ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That was my theory at the time, and since then my experience has only confirmed this even more. I believe that most women are hard wired with their primary focus in the middle dan tien, and men in the lower. This would explain a lot of the differences between men and women in their approaches to sexuality and relationships. I found your descriptions interesting as I have felt the exact same sensations as you were describing. If I retain/do qigong a lot I get flirted with quite a bit, (and I'm not even being flirty). So as to your question as to why practice makes us more attractive to women I remember Drew saying that men want the women's jing, and women want the men's chi. So I suppose that if we have a lot of chi, women are going to feel this, and find it attractive. The lower dan tien is the residence of jing, so men want more jing from the woman. The middle dan tien is the residence of chi, so women want the man's chi.