Maddie

Well I can't speak for others, but as for myself I have several reasons for wanting to decrease sexual desire. The biggest reason is that when my drive is strong it tends to be obsessive for me. I get a total one track mind and can not really concentrate on anything else. This is not blalance, and so I guess really balance in life is what I'm after, and it just so happens that a major area of imbalance as been sex. I suppose if it was gluttony or over eating then that is what I would be concentrating on bringing into blance.

Sexuality has long been problematic in my life, yet some aspects of it seem to be different than what I observe the majority of other people seem to experience. But first let me degress a little with some back ground that I feel is relevant to this topic. I grew up with a very abusive father physically, mentally, emotionally, and verbally. He was very harsh and seemed to almost enjoy humiliating and degrading his children. When I first started to notice girls in high school the emotional damage I had incured made me quite akward around girls, and thus my dating and social life was practially non-existant. After high school I joined the army and wound up in Ft. Benning GA as my first duty station. I met this slutty fluzzy but since she seemed to show intersted in me and because of my abusive father my self esteem was shot to hell I fell for her anyways. I stupidly got married to her at her insistence (she wanted an army meal ticket) and on my first training rotation to the desert she cheated on me and that ended that adventure. As a result of that trauma I joined a christian cult and due to its strict rules about dating I did not date another girl for about 6 years. After 6 years my future wife came to visit this church. She did not like the church but appearantly liked me. Since at this time I was sick of this church anyhow I left the church and got married to her (the second girl that seemed to show interest in me). Well needless to say this marriage hasn't been a rose garden either. By 2006 I was on anti-depressants, but didn't like the way they made me feel. In 2008 I began Qigong and became very interested in TCM and herbs. Due to this combination I was able to get off perscription anti-depressants. So what does all of this have to do with the topic. From the time I was a teenager, all the way up until after I got married to my current wife, I was totally sex obsessed in the traditional way (as far as unhealthy obsessions go). I would think about women all the time, wanted women all the time. The focus of my libido and desire was mainly centered in my genitals (not to say that I did not desire companionship very much as well). This is a nice way of saying I wanted very badly to stick it in a woman and relieve myself (crude I know, but alas that is how it was). It was always very straight foward, I saw woman, Mr. Happy got excited, I wanted woman, Mr. Happy did his thing, ahhhh now time to roll over and take a nap. But then shortly before the time that I wound up on anti-depressants things took a turn for the weird. My thoughts and desire about sex became more unusual. Strange unwanted fantasies would enter, and I began to want and do things that before would have seemed horrid to me. Additionally when I would get aroused in this new and unusal way no longer did I primarily feel desire in the genital area. It was more like it was in my chest core area in the center of me. I would not experience errections at this new and unusual stimulation. Instead the stimulation was deeper inside me, higher up, and more bizzare. This of course began to worry me extensively. I don't desire to go into too much detail, but many of these bizzare fantasies that would plauge me were of the BSDM nature, and I find that stuff horrifying. Yet I could not make it go away, even though I hated it. That was a large part of the reason I wound up on anti-depressants. This has been something that has been tormenting me for the last few years now. I can be going along minding my own business and then boom out of no where "it" will hit me, and hit me hard. When it hits me really hard, I might not be able to sleep all night because these thoughts have me so wound up. I have pondered what this might be for a long time now through the Qigong perspective, the TCM perspective, and many other wholistic and natrual approaches. This hit me again last night. I stayed up quite late due to this. At first I tried sitting in full lotus, doing MCO, testicle breathing in order to remove and transform sexual energy so that it would not be a problem for me. This did not help. So after that I began to do the inner smile and healing sound of the heart as that is associated with over excitement. This did also not seem to help much either. Eventually I went to bed, but when I woke up this morning the problem was still present. I tried the kidney channel instead, as this is related to sexual energy,but this did not seem to help either. Then the spleen for obseesive thoughts, and the liver for its relationship to libido and agression, but none of this helped as well. Finally with only the lungs left I decided to give it a try, but I could not see how sorrow (the traditional emotion associated with the lung was realted). So I began to smile to my lungs, and to do the healing sound. Amazingly I began to slowly feel better as I did this! I did not understand why this was helping, but the longer I smiled to my lungs and did the healing sound, it seemed the more I gained insight as to just what was hiding in my lungs after all. See besides sorrow and grief, the lungs also are responsible for personal boundries, personal pride, self respect, courage, and self esteem. These fantasies that had overcome me were almost always of some sort of BSDM, humiliation, submissive, type scenario; all the attribues that are the exact opposite of self respect, pride, honor, boundries, ect. Also I was dumbfounded at the sheer volume of negative energy that was locked up in my lungs. I literally did the lung healing sound for several hours today, just so much came out, it was unbelieveable. I suppose this also explains why I would not feel the stimulation in my genital area which is the normal area of sexual stimulation, but in my chest where my lungs are. Why the obsession, I'm not sure, but I do have a theory based on some personal observations from my own experience. Another issue I struggled with was fear. When I was a young child my father would make me constantly fearfull. People used to tell me that I would always look afraid. It seemed that when I went through my fearful phase of life, that I seemed to attract to myself things that would make me afraid. It was not until I began doing Qigong and began to remove that stored up fear energy from my kidneys that not only did I stop being afraid, but I also stopped attracting the things I feared to myself. Perhaps its a matter of like attracts like? So maybe in this case with my father constantly humiliating me and degrading me as a child, there was a lot of negative lung energy such as sorrow (which would explain the anti-depressants) and a sever lack of the lungs virtues of pride, self respect, boundries, ect.. BSDM is the total antithesis of those virtues. There is no pride, its about humiliation, and those seemed to be the scenarios that tormented me against my will. Now I don't know if its over, for in my Qigong experience nothing is ever so cut and dry, fast and easy. But I do know that as I started working on my lung channel that this obession faded away, and that I began to slowly feel better. I also know that sadness is something that has been a long time problem of mine, yet often due to the painful nature of negative energy stored within us we do not like to look at or acknowlege it, meaning that it was there all along, but I didn't want to face it. But the main reason I posted all of this is because I was wondering if anyone else is familiar with non-genital type sexual compulsions?

I had tried doing a variation of Testicle Breathing as taught by Mantak Chia in order to lessen my desire, but it did not really seem to work, plus I felt very lethargic. Finally I could not take it anymore and did the Big Draw instead. This helped a lot with the desire aspect as well as the lethargy too. At this time the only thing I can figure is that I did not do the Testicle Breathing correctly... You are suppose to breath into the testicles first, and then draw up the unaroused energy. I did not breath into them first as I was afraid that this might stimulate me too much. On the other hand the only thing I did differently with the Big Draw was to self stimulate and then draw the energy into my MCO and store in the Dan Tien. I had tried to do the same thing with my variation of testicle breathing but I suppose since I did not breath into the testicles first, there was not enough conversion? I'll try to do the full method next time and see what happens. Yet nevertheless now I feel more energetic, light and flexible, plus my desire is back to a normal/almost neutral state. Any input would be appreciated. P.S. I know that full lotus is also effective, but it is often very difficult for me to get into it, so I have to know alternative methods as well. I would also like to be able to do the method Drew does but as of yet I have no idea how to do that.

Yea I see what you are saying about doing the fussion practise first. I can definately see how that could carry over to Kan and Li.

I can't say for sure, but perhaps part of the reason that as men get older they seem to emphasize the physical less (at least some do) might of course be maturity over time, but another reason might be that as he gets older and has lost more of his jing, in the realtive sense he has different jing to chi ratio than that of a younger man (who are notoriously sex obsessed). And perhaps as people go through life and ponder life, this may act as a sort of mind yoga that may clear some of their channels. I'm not sure how charisma relates to this, but sometimes I feel more charismatic than other times lol.

Ok DO NOT do the Big Draw and leave the energy in your head overnight!!! Last night I did the Big Draw and left most of the energy in my head. Today all I could think about was sex, even though I did not have much desire. It was like it was all in my head litterally. I just spent the last hour drawing the energy down to my middle dan tien and the thoughts are slowing down.

oooooooooh i seeeeeeeeee, I was wondering how this topic came up, but when you put it that way it makes sense. (That video of Captain Kirk with one around his neck just cracked me up lol) In another jing related issue (sort of) last night I did the big draw and left most of the energy in my head. Now today I can not stop thinking about sex. I don't really feel the urge to have it, but I just can't stop thinking about it. Could this be a result of having sexual energy from the big draw in my head? I wonder what would happen if I drew it to my middle dan tien and kept it there?

Actually I did check it out, and indeed did find it to be helpful, but was also interested in personal experience as well.

From what I understand (and beleive me it is limited lol) the idea way its "supposed" to work in dual cultivation is that the woman gets the man's chi, and the man absorbs the woman's jing (in a perfect world) ;-). Another question I have about the whole Jing/testosterone/cultivation subject is..... If you practice such things as the Big Draw solo (my wife and I have a crappy relationship, which is why I ask about solo) does this make one too yang? Cause it sure seems like all I have to do is do the Big Draw solo just once or twice and then I feel uber yang, like an atomic bomb yang. If so, why would this make one so yang, and what can one do to make themselves more yin? (I would prefer to know a practice to make me more yin as opposed to foods, because my food budget is limited).

Just wondering if too my yang in the dan tien also means an excessive libido? Is focusing on the heart area (middle dan tien) is the answer if you are too yang then?

Thanks for the reply. Yea I have dabbled with fussion of the 5 elements before, but with that also I felt like I was just visualizing it, and did not really feel anything. I have been doing MCO for a while and with that I can feel stuff, which is why I was confused if it was supposed to be the same with fussion and Kan and li. So do you just keep at it as a visualization for a while until you start to feel something? That is sort of how it worked for me with inner smile and 6 healing sounds at first.

I realize that this thread sort of devolved from Jing to testosterone to cock rings :-/ .... anyways I was pondering Jing from another angle today.... It all started when I pondered why it is that generally men or more turned on visually and women are more turned on emotionally. I remembered reading that the three treasures (jing, chi, shen) are stored in the 3 dan tiens respectively (jing=lower , chi=middle, shen=upper). I also remember reading that men tend to have more chi (which is why we have more body hair) and women tend to have more jing (which is why they have more blood ex:menstration). So the man desires the woman's jing, and the woman desires the man's chi. Now if jing is a more dense substance, closer to the physical realm, and if men need/want jing, (which is housed in the lower dan tien) then would it not make sense that men would be attracted to the physical apperance of a woman's body? Would a healthy female body suggest strong jing? If women want/need the man's chi (which is housed in the middle dan tien, thus more related to emotions) then would she not be attracted to a man's emotional quality? If you think about it, young women have very strong jing, old women do not. Porn stars (not that I'm advocating porn, just making an example) do not tend to be old women, they almost always are young, and good looking (thus a poster child of strong jing). If you are a man have you ever really analyzed why you think a female body looks so nice? Typically we don't tend to analyze this stuff, we just like it and thats the end of the story. But what gives this visual representation such power? is it not really the jing, the energy behind it? If you consider the case of a really hot babe with some ugly guy (and yes we have all seen it) as a man you are thinking "wtf!!??". But the woman is after the chi, not the jing. Her focus is on the mans middle dan tien, while our focus is on her lower dan tien where the jing is. Perhaps that is one reason that men trend to as a general tend have their emotional focus "lower" than the average woman. Perhaps that is why the saying goes "when a man's jing is full he will no longer desire the woman". I suppose if a man has plenty of jing, he will no longer feel the need for it. So back to the topic of this thread originally. Maybe one of the best ways to increase jing is to first of all not waste it, and two learn dual cultivation with your partner (you get the jing, she gets the chi, everyone is living happily ever after ).

My sources are an assortment of TCM, Qigong, and Gilles Marin's "Five Elements, Six Conditions" he does Qigong / Chi Nei Tsang. Most Acupuncture / TCM sources state the same information as well, so does "Acupuncture for Dummies" of all places lol.

Now that I have a little more time on my hands, I'll like to give you a conerned word of caution. I have worked in the medical field in the past. I drew blood and took anatomy. There is stuff under your skin that you don't want to be poking. You could mess up your nerves, blood vessels, ect... That is why Acupuncturists go to school and study a while. I myself want to study acupuncture (among other things), but as I do not know acupuncture as of yet I would never stick a needle in myself with out proper training. I do acupressure, and find that I get good results from that, plus I don't have to worry about damaging something vital under my skin. Something else to consider is, lets say you do actually insert a needle into a acupoint, but you do use the wrong combination of needles, or something else that you are unaware of. Well now you might be screwing up your chi flow. If I was you I'd either a) go to an acupunturist if you need some work done, or try doing acupruessure.

What if the randiness isn't an urge to jack off, but rather it is unusual thoughts? Is that the same thing or not?

Ummmmm I would say acupressure is better to do to yourself.

If you suddenly out of the blue have very odd and obsessive thoughts isn't that a sign of a heart meridian disorder? Especially if you can not sleep and feel reved up on the inside?

I keep my elbows below the nipple line, and my fingers only a few inches apart now. Before I would hold my elbows at the nipple line, and my fingers were almost a foot apart. So that is how I made it smaller.

I had read from a few various Qigong masters that OBE's should not be attempted until a lot of other foundational work had been done first, or it can be dangerous.

Ok here is something I'm a bit confused about. What is the actual cause of desire? Lets say you start on day one after emptying yourself of fluid. Then usually desire is much less immediately afterwards. Now lets say you do nothing at all. Then you wait a few days and desire begins to increase again, and after a week or two you feel like an atomic bomb. Now obviously as time passes your body begins to replace its lost fluids, BUT is the cause of desire itself the amount of fluid you have or the energy contained in the fluid? I ask this because if my desire is strong, I can do the Big Draw, i.e. refrain from ejaculation, but cause the energy of the sperm to enter my MCO and store it at my dan tien, and then for a while I feel fine again, just as if I had released fluid, but the amount of time for desire to return afterwards is usually shorter than after a normal ejaculation. So this is what makes me ponder what the actual "thing" is that makes us feel desire in the first place?

Thats actually a very plausable theory. I had concidered that before as well that perhaps I had always been that angry and ZZ was just making me more aware of it, who knows?? One thing that has changed however is now that I do hold the ball a little smaller and lower it does not have the constrictive effect upon my diaphram that it used to have.

Interesting that you should put it that way, as I was pondering along those lines as well after that experience. I asked myself what is it that we are really seeking, and what I came up with was that sense of union, and connection with the "other" that you mentioned. After that I began to ponder how love and sex are related, and distinct, and how the two can become confused with eachother. I think that love of more of an emotional desire to connect with someone, or even more deeply with ourselves. Sex on the other hand is also a desire to connect, but at a different level, more on the level of sensation and passion. So it would seem that love is more yin and sex is more yang, and explain why men focus more on sex in general, and women on emotions, generally speaking. It also caused me to ponder one other thing. I have friends who have their relationship issues. Many of them are very needy/clingy, and constantly have problems with relationships and with themeselves (though most of them don't seem to realize they have problems with themselves). And I began to ponder how much relationship issues are actually due to an imbalance with in. When a person is really clingy, and hoping to find the person that will complete them (we all know friends like that) what it would seem they are actually doing is trying to have another person balance an imbalance that is inside them. But due to the imbalance their relationships are not usually healthy, or last very long, and so the cycle perpetuates itself. So I think the real answer is to not find the right person to make me happy, but to bring balance within the self. If we are constantly obsessed with sex, then find out why and find balance with in. If we seem to be searching for love in all the wrong places then perhaps we need to connect to what love truely is with in ourselves.

Ok here was/is my routine. I do the 8 brocades first, then I do wuji position for 5 min, then holing the ball/embracing the tree for 5, and back to wuji for 5. Back when I was having problems I would do holding the ball for 15 min but I held it higher and bigger. So far doing it this way has not resulted in the same temperment problems as before, in fact I feel more mellow now than ever

I'd suggest that if you are learning Dr. Yang's style, then do what he says as to avoid confussion. Then once you become a pro at that, then prehaps experiment with differant stuff. I really like Dr. Yang, his explinations are good, and his methods work well.