Maddie

Yes and yes. Also consider mudras.

Interesting. I wonder if that is where the veneration of the saints came from. If the pagans of Europe were forced to convert at the point of a sword so they moved their pantheons under cover as saints?

I find this theory interesting, but would you mind elaborating a little more about this? Why does it lead to mere intellect and atheism?

I wonder why there was a general shift from polytheism to monotheism

This brought back memories of a long time ago when I was in a cult church that emphasized obedience above all else. Obedience was seen as the highest virtue, especially unquestioning obedience. They put a lot of emphasis on the Old Testament which had a lot of passages that are very similar to this Sumerian poem. In the Old Testament it was all about obedience.

Alan Watts once said the Church took guilt and turned it into a virtue. *edit: I must add I don't say this happily as I wish there was some way to find virtue in the Church.

Yes and unfortunately if the West had any good cultivation techniques they were largely lost and I suppose this would explain the largely neurotic nature of society.

I still see this attitude when speaking to some evangelicals today. If it doesn't line up with what they think is proper they call it evil and satanic.

Something I've been thinking about recently is the more subtle forms of clinging and attachment. The more gross and obvious forms like clinging to the things of the senses seem pretty obvious, sights, sounds, smells, tastes, touch, and thoughts, but what about the less obvious forms of clinging? This is the type of clinging that often gets overlooked because it is a spiritual method, practice, or tradition. This kind of clinging can take the form of clinging takes the form of clinging to a religion, or clinging to practice, or clinging to a spiritual concept. It is the idea of clinging to the raft after we have arrived on the other shore of the river. Has anyone else dealt with clinging to the practice itself, or some other type of spiritual tradition?

Yes. Most average people live out their karma as though its fixed because they don't know any better, but if you change your karma you change your destiny. This is why people do things like the Zhunti mantra. That pull in a certain direction is karma. The reason most people don't change their karma is because they react to it thus creating more similar karma so it can have the illusion of being perpetual. But like the Buddha said all things are impermanent.

Yes when I first became interested in Taoism I was in college in Alaska and realized this stuff was written in the context of ancient China and not Alaska so some modification is necessary.

Things are destined in as much as the nature of ones karma is.

Yes, they both came from the same proto-Indo-european root. https://youtu.be/RIfB1LI79OQ

Yes I think the reason an enlightened being does not create karma is because everything they do is completely mindful.

It's said that an Arahant or a Buddha does not create karma.

It is for the reason I am very hesitant with the word "love". I prefer kindness and compassion because the western notion of "love" involves a lot of attachment, craving, and clinging.

Indeed it is, and not just the things we want since there is a thing called bad karma as well.

Much of what is done is also the result of karma.

We can only manifest what we have the merit or good karma for. Manifesting it's like shopping. The goal is your shopping list. The karma is your money. If you desire to manifest something and you have the merit it will happen. If you don't have the merit it won't. That's why it seems to work for some people and not others.

Then try feeling your aversion to all of this. It seems to bother you that you get caught up in your thoughts when you try to observe them. Just pay attention to this annoyance.

I was unaware of that verse, but really like it!

Maybe about a year ago I was reading a sutta about dependent origination and I came across the part that said "becoming". Now in the context of the sutta was basically saying this is the point that you enter a new womb to acquire a new body for a new life, but I guess the word had a profound impact on me out of context. Being very general there seem to be two kinds of practices. The first time is to "become" more. To gain super powers, to gain qi, to gain something. The second is to "become" less by letting go of more and more. This was the method the Buddha taught, this is the method of "neti neti". This is the method that I generally practice. What path do you follow, and why?

Actually what you are describing sounds very familiar. When I began I was drawn to Taoist stuff like qigong and had no interest in things like mantras at all, in fact I sort of rolled my eyes at them. I guess that was because having come out of fundamentalist Christianity it seemed too much like prayer to me and I was at the time put off by all things church related due to many bad experiences. Now though I would say mantras are probably my main practice, aside from studying texts and contemplation.

When I find interesting about the heart and diamond sutra's usage in Asia is the way their chanted for magical and spiritual efficacy simply by virtue of the power of the scripture itself. I don't really understand this but at the same time I find the concept fascinating.

Another fun little tid-bit is its common in Asia to recite the Heart Sutra to clear and area of ghosts, and to improve one's karma.