Maddie

11 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

If an enlightened person is unattached to their own male or female appearance in the world, surely they´re also unattached to the male or female appearance of others.

I think that's why this topic tends to be so triggering for people, because it challenges the concept of our own identity and what do we cling to more then being or existence? According to the Buddha clinging to existence is the reason that we reincarnate.

1 minute ago, liminal_luke said:

If an enlightened person is unattached to their own male or female appearance in the world, surely they´re also unattached to the male or female appearance of others.

Oooooh 😗.... Yes!

One side effect of transitioning that I'm not so keen about is that I used to be strong. Used to be lol.

20 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

@surrogate corpse

 

I realized transgenderism should called transappearace instead. It would be a more accurate description of the phenomena isn't it. 

 

 

No that's called crossdressing. 

We change our appearance to align better with our identity. 

8 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

Well for what its worth, is it ok if I say I don't think that LGBTism.

 

Is as sinful as some of your relatives claim.

 

Gay marriage has been legal in my state for many years. Tons of gay / trans couples everywhere no one looks twice.

 

Its only recently that things have gotten a bit strange. But that has more to do with politics than anything.

Oh I don't think anything is wrong with being gay, just saying that verse is not about being trans.

5 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

The old testament of the bible says.

 

"A man lying with a man as a woman is an abomination."

 

That's about homosexuality not being trans.

26 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

Lust is one of seven deadly sins.

 

While LGBTs weren't sinful enough to make the top 7 list.

 

Is the catholic church slippin?

 

Or are LGBTs working hard to make Santa's nice but not too naughty list?

 

I'm not gonna judge.

One of my family members told me I was going to hell for being trans and I said can you show me where it says that in the bible? They were unable to LOL.

3 hours ago, surrogate corpse said:

(to Maddie, not Stirling)

 

Not just that, but you were using "identity is fake" as a means to cling to male identity! (so was i)

 

 

That's very insightful! 

3 hours ago, surrogate corpse said:

 

Trying to detach from identity without addressing the underlying suffering doesn't work.

 

Some folks in this thread have been recommending spiritual detachment from identity as an alternative to transition. What they are recommending—however well-meaning they might be—is torture. How do well-meaning people come to recommend torture? By failing to understand not just gender, but also how it is that attachment to identity causes suffering.

 

Suppose we accept that giving up attachment to identity is good. (I'm sympathetic!) Transition is, for people like you and me, a precondition for doing so. In other words: "yeah, yeah, sure, you can be non-binary... after estrogen"

Oh yes okay I understand now. This is exactly what I did for several years when I was trying to fight the whole thing. I told myself identity is an illusion it shouldn't matter. My mental health didn't care about my theory LOL.

This goes back to what I said about the raft. And the big picture I realize identity is a construct but in the meantime I'm in the middle of the river on that raft I'm not there yet I need to do what I need to do to have the best life I possibly can and not be miserable all the time.

I think a lot of people are forgetting that the process of enlightenment is typically long and slow and takes a lot of work and we can't just ditch identity because we decide that sounds like a fun thing to do on a Wednesday afternoon.

2 minutes ago, Elysium said:

Wouldn't you be a victim therefore not go to hell if you were possessed 

Well that's rational thinking lol

50 minutes ago, surrogate corpse said:

The current discussion reminds me of a friend of mine who, when I was telling her about my pre-transition attempts to be "non-binary", responded, "Yeah, yeah, sure, you can be non-binary... after estrogen."

I'm sorry I don't think I understand.

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I´d be concerned for their souls.  Different strokes, I guess.

Ironic isn't it?

2 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

It´s all very well to have spiritual discussions but I think we need to be aware of the context.  Here, in Maddie´s case, the context is someone whose very personal and deeply considered decisions about her body resulted in her losing regular contact with much of her family.  Or so I gather from earlier in this discussion.  If this was my context, I´d be a smidge sensitive.  I´d feel a bit put upon by a world that seemed to understand me so little.  I might even be a tad angry.  Which is not to say that Maddie is any of these things -- who knows?  But this is the interpersonal context of the thread as I see it.

 

None of this means we can´t have spiritual conversations about identity.  We can.  But we should do so with sensitivity and awareness.  We owe the people personally connected to this issue that much.

Not only has almost all of my family stopped having anything to do with me after I came out as trans but since they're very religious I've been told repeatedly that I'm possessed by the devil and going to hell for being trans because they're concerned for my soul which I guess is a spiritual argument. So getting spiritual about being trans definitely is triggering..

One doesn't see through identity by being told that they shouldn't have one anymore than one solves their financial problems by being told they shouldn't have bills.

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

and after them are the transgender shoplifters 

^the actual reason I transitioned. 

I think it is important to remember that just because we discard the raft when we get to the other side of the river does not mean it would  be a good idea to do so while still in the middle of the river. 

5 minutes ago, Nungali said:

To assume or insist everyone should have the same belief, or be following the same  ideals creates that very situation where people like Maddie are being judged ... not due  ( directly    ) to transgenderphobia but due to a projection of where her spiritual path and direction 'should '  be .

 

That was an excellent summary. I had been feeling like someone else's spiritual understanding was being projected onto me. 

Does anyone ever feel their LDT start tingling/buzzing for no reason, just randomly? 

I don't recall in all of those semen threads someone saying "I am a 32 year old male and I really want to retain all my semen because then I'll be able to shoot lighting out of my nostril's like Palpatine" and someone coming at them like "why do you identify with being a male? Don't you realize gender doesn't exist because something something spiritual reasons?" 

I haven't seen this level of "enlightenment shaming" for other topics lol. 

I guess on a forum like this one is more likely to try to disguise their transphobia with "spiritual terminology"?  🤔

14 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Agreed.  Sadly, those who say "if you were enlightened you´d see it *this* way" are so seldom enlightened themselves. Ya gotta love this place though.  Elsewhere, if people want to criticize transgendered people they say they´re going against God or unnatural or some other such nonsense; here, they say they are unenlightened.

People seem to get very "spiritual" all of a sudden when it comes to being trans lol. 

I noticed a lot of the Buddha's statements seem rather obvious when you think about them but that's the point a lot of people don't think about them so here's one to think about. 

Why do people get so bent out of shape over other people changing their gender??

Since this is a trans Q&A, maybe we should cover some of the basics about what's a question and what's not, and what's transphobic and what's not. 

1. Is the fact that you were born a different sex than the gender that you currently identify with an issue for you? Is a question, and it's not transphobic. 

2. You will never be a woman, is not a question. It's a statement. It's also transphobic. 

3. Can you please pass the cheese, is a question, and it's not transphobic. 

4. I don't understand how you could be born a male and identify as a female could you please elaborate? Is a question, and it's not transphobic.

5. I don't like coconuts. Is not a question, and it's not transphobic. (Unless you suspect that the coconuts are transgendered coconuts and you don't like them for that) reason).

Any questions?

Just now, Apech said:

You didn’t say anything transphobic.

The guy I was responding to sure did and you didn't say anything to him about what he said. How come?

1 minute ago, Apech said:

I used to be a moderator and it is one of the basic rules - no ad hominem attacks.  

Transphobic comments are not allowed. How come you didn't say anything about that?