C T

Civil is "Obviously you're not a native English speaker?" Wokay, got it.

Whose rules? Yours? Who made you TDB sheriff? Why are you here anyway? Whats your real intention? Who are you? Are you drunk?

Nah. This is proper nuf.

~ Chogyal Namkhai Norbu ~ “All the philosophical theories that exist have been created by the mistaken dualistic minds of human beings. In the realm of philosophy, that which today is considered true, may tomorrow be proved to be false. No one can guarantee a philosophy's validity. Because of this, any intellectual way of seeing whatever is always partial and relative. The fact is that there is no truth to seek or to confirm logically; rather what one needs to do is to discover just how much the mind continually limits itself in a condition of dualism. Dualism is the real root of our suffering and of all our conflicts. All our concepts and beliefs, no matter how profound they may seem, are like nets which trap us in dualism."

only tyme will tell why time is spelt thataway bees can tell its thyme

Thank you. Appreciation is mutual.

@natural I too have a friend who experienced overwhelming physical and mental trauma as a result of being robbed, beaten up, and raped in her own home. She told me that the trauma in the aftermath of the horrific event was many times worse than the incident itself. Even therapy did little to alleviate the force of her aversion to what happened. She knew that she could not function if she continued to remain in that dark tunnel, so she consciously chose to do volunteer work at a rape crisis centre. This decision to be proactive, she said, was the best decision she ever made. It widened her perspective to such an extent that within a few months, she was able to find purpose and meaning to life again. We were all amazed by the transformation. So yes, to some extent, verifiably, suffering is a crisis of perception.

Quote source -- https://tricycle.org/trikedaily/mind-and-consciousness/

Isn't the mind the seat of observation that dis-ease comes in different forms, has different causes, and manifests to affect various states of being, at varying periods? What you termed 'deterioration' dependent again on a dualistic, subject/object premise - its the only convenient premise where an approximation (or value) can be derived, or relative measurements made to allow for intervention. Not saying this is objectionable, or to be discarded in pursuit of a higher, nobler, more transcendent view. The relative is useful. In fact, its essential for existence. But those poised for spiritual evolvement know there's something more, something that connects the being to higher levels of consciousness, or realms beyond this relative world, where space/time loses its meaning, equivalence, and influence. Without this connection, I think metaphysical work will be exasperating, like running around in circles each time an attempt is made. With the connection formed, then, terms like perfect health/ill health, mortality/immortality, short/long lifespan, and other such dichotomies will be resolved. Again... in the mind. Not that such resolutions will make one live to 400, or 1000, or certain physical impairments will be made whole within it, but I think definitely its a prerequisite for inner work to happen. In the discovery and practice of remaining in this space of awareness, a marked clarity will eventually surface. At that point, any and all kinds of practices that one chooses to adopt/integrate will be more defined, meaningful, and fruition attained with ease.

Enough folks believe Buddhists are a jovial lot with their extreme beliefs around the truth of suffering. Actually, this is not true. Practitioners intent on stepping out of the samsaric wheel will make it their priority to cease creating new causes that can upset the equilibrium of this-moment-mindfulness. Instead, part of the focus (a vital part) of practice is the creation of this-moment causes that will lead to the bearing of the fruits of enlightenment. This is Buddhist cultivation, in a nutshell. There's very little in the way of impediments to making a decision to sow the seeds of enlightenment in one's present life this very moment. And its not difficult. Its as simple as resting the mind in directionless awareness, or open awareness. Softly gazing at the sky is one of the methods. But habituated analytical mind will not allow acceptance that such a prescription can actually be an effective antidote to negative karma. Analytical mind will object, , "You are so fragmented, so broken, and so full of faults. There's much work to be done... this, this, this... whatcha doing about them? Don't be lazy, and don't buy into such idiotic crappy notions about doing nothing except gazing at the sky." Often, in retreat settings, the masters will cajole lazy students, exhorting them with reminders that chanting just one Mani mantra will remove lifetimes of accumulated mental fermentations - this is mainly to spur fervent practice so that they will have less idleness and therefore less opportunity to regress back to old habits and worn-out thoughts. But practice is just half of the equation - generating mindfulness post-practice is equally stressed, if not more. In Dzogchen, post-practice necessitates simple, effortless resting awareness in the empty yet palpable brilliance of non-thought gaps that follow most every formal session, and finding repose in this space. Repose occurs as the mind, previously full of activity, is now allowed to return to its pure nature. There is spontaneous recognition of the nature of mind - lucid, brilliant, crystalline, limpid, peaceful, light, and equanimous. Yet, these terms merely touch the surface in expressing the true state beyond concepts. In this moment, doership is fully dismantled. Here, in this very space, the Dharmakaya unfolds in its natural splendour, shining unimpededly. The mark of progress for a Dzogchen practitioner is therefore to gain familiarity by habituating, with sufficient frequency, this exercise. The idea being, with time, the periods of remaining in recognition gradually lengthen, becoming more pervasive and natural, leading eventually to stability and spontaneous presence. This is the threshold of enlightenment.

Indeed. The recognition of mind essence is something thats etched in the mindstream permanently, like experiencing the taste of citrus once and its never forgotten, or placing a few salt crystals on the tongue will engender knowledge of the taste of all the oceans in the world. Yet, there are those who adamantly & vehemently set seriously challenging tasks for themselves involving the quest to taste the essence of as many oceans as possible in order to verify that the nature of salt crystals is saltiness. These are the folks that is dedicated to taking the long way home - they believe there's no short cut to emancipation - that reward must be accompanied by strenuous outputs. This is what sickness of effort in the 6 Vajra Verses point to, imo. Its based off the mistaken view (possibly duped by ego constructs) that we have all the time in the world when in fact death can happen at any time. At that point, all the siddhis in one's possession, and all those other things that one has exerted enormous energy and sacrifices to master, instantaneously transforms into a strong karmic burden for rebirth in samsara.

This pithy verse greatly impacted my motivation to practice very early on in my path. Measureless reverence for its profundity. _/\_

Among contemporary Indian gurus, Jaggi Vasudev is actually quite sound, and enough of his discourses have intellectual value, imo. Also, the humanitarian arm of his organization, I heard, is doing a lot of good for certain segments of the underprivileged in India. Compared to godman Nithyananda, he's way more sane and cohesive. But jury's still out wrt his enlightenment status.

There may well be a few individuated conceptual interpretations of the term 'wholeness', but from a Vajrayana/Dzogchen perspective, where some teachers have spoken, there's been mention of wholeness as synonymous with, or likened to, a natural, unforced, effortless ease with which one remains in a state beyond concept. Often they will say things like "Suffuse your whole being with the sky" or "Ease into perfected wholeness by resting one's mind in the vast expanse of dharmata", etc. Of course its possible this may turn into yet another conceptual exercise.... no surprise there As a preventative antidote, practitioners are encouraged to direct attention more to cognise post-practice gaps that appear, and rest in these moments repeatedly, regardless of the length of time the presence of these gaps may remain. These gaps are intrinsic to every sentient being in every single moment, but their perception, recognition, and ability to draw on its benefit vary drastically. Among the six classes of beings, only humans are endowed with the potential (to recognize). Its been said that in that moment of seeing, one is a buddha. Correct practice is meant to develop, enhance and lengthen their palpability. Intimating these brief moments of nondescript, unadorned presence is like coming to recognize the real nature of a mirror and its essence, likened to at last seeing one's real face in Zen, rather than remaining habitually distracted, confused and limited by one aspect of its function, which is to reflect. Some will assume that such distractions are necessary; others will find justifications that if they could somehow undistort the images individually as and when they arise, then they are on the path to spiritual transcendence. Its a game many are prone towards playing because doing so gives one a sense of usefulness and progress.

Since when is asking someone for feedback an interjection? I don't remember engaging you, or even remotely suggesting your involvement in the question. Tinge of guilt, perhaps? Maybe time for some introspection now that you've had your fill of self importance. Breakfast included.

Not sure where the relevance is. It was a fair question to Manitou, one which really does not concern you so please desist from further interruptions. Thank you

Precisely what I've been waiting for... Manitou's reply. And what compelled you to be rude when the question is of no concern of yours?

Is there any particular part of your post that you feel necessitated an apology? Certainly you're not apologising for being expressive? Sure hope not.

~ The Dhammapada ~ He whose cankers are destroyed and who is not attached to food, whose object is the Void, the Unconditioned Freedom — his path cannot be traced, like that of birds in the air. Whoever is overcome by this wretched and sticky craving, his sorrows grow like grass after the rains. But whoever overcomes this wretched craving, so difficult to overcome, from him sorrows fall away like water from a lotus leaf. There is no meditative concentration for him who lacks insight, and no insight for him who lacks meditative concentration. He in whom are found both meditative concentration and insight, indeed, is close to nibbāna.

Nina van Gorkom, born in 1928, is a Buddhist scholar and translator in the Pali tradition who has written extensively on the Abhidhamma. Born in the Netherlands, she moved to Thailand as an adult and studied extensively with Thai teachers.

Back to basics. Derivation of Anatta in Buddhist thought ~ Nina Van Gorkom When we listen to the Dhamma and investigate nama and rupa which appear we can think in the right way of realities and this way of thinking is accompanied by sati. Then we begin to have right understanding of realities. Sati which is directly aware of the characteristic of a reality which appears is still another level of sati and this is different from thinking of realities. When there is awareness of a reality, understanding of that reality can gradually develop at that moment. Understanding, panna, is a sobhana cetasika, a beautiful cetasika. Panna does not accompany each kusala citta: some kusala cittas are accompanied by panna, some are not. When we develop satipatthana we come to understand the difference between realities, paramattha dhammas, and concepts. A chair, for example, is a concept. When we touch a chair , the chair is not experienced through touch, but the reality of hardness can be experienced through the bodysense. Through the bodysense the following rupas can be experienced: the Element of Earth or solidity, appearing as hardness or softness, the Element of Fire, appearing as heat or cold, and the Element of Wind, appearing as motion or pressure . When we see a chair, the chair does not impinge on the eyesense, it is colour or visible object which impinges on the eyesense and can be experienced through the eyes. Someone asked what seeing-consciousness sees, whether particular colours like red or blue are experienced by seeing-consciousness. Seeing-consciousness sees whatever is visible, all that appears through the eyesense, but it does not pay attention to a particular colour like red or blue. When we notice that something is red or blue, it is not seeing, but there are cittas arising in a mind-door process which think of visible object or define it. When there is no sati we confuse paramattha dhammas and concepts. When I was watching someone who was talking on T.V., Acharn Sujin reminded me, asking, "Can visible object talk?" When we see the outlines of things, when we notice the shape and form of things it is not seeing but there are cittas arising in a mind-door process which define what was seen. Because of remembrance of former experiences we know the meaning of things. Remembrance, sanna, is a cetasika which accompanies each citta and which remembers or marks the object so that it can be recognized later on. Through ears hearing-consciousness hears sound. It seems that we hear words spoken by someone, but at such moments there are cittas arising in a mind-door process which think of concepts. Cittas arise and fall away very rapidly and only when satipatthana is developed the difference between such moments can be discerned. Through the nose odour appears, through the tongue flavour appears, there is only one reality at a time appearing through one of the six doors. Because of our accumulated ignorance we join different realities together into a "whole" of a person or a thing, instead of being aware of realities as they appear one at a time. The remembrance of a "whole" hides the characteristic of anatta. We do not see that what we take for a person consists of different elements which arise and fall away and are not self. When a rupa such as colour appears there is also nama which experiences colour, otherwise colour could not appear. It is the same in the case of the other sense objects. If there were no cittas arising in the different processes nothing could appear. The characteristics of nama and rupa are different: rupa does not know anything and nama experiences an object. Visible object appears, but the nama which experiences it seems to be hidden. It is difficult to distinguish between the characteristics of nama and rupa, they seem to be together. When visible object appears there is also the nama which experiences it, but when sati arises it is aware of only one characteristic at a time. It depends on conditions of which object sati is aware, be it nama or rupa, nobody can direct sati. So long as nama and rupa are not clearly distinguished from each other there is still "personality belief", sakkaya ditthi [wrong view arising with the (identification to) body]. Glossary of terms Nama - Mental phenomena. This term refers to the mental components of the five khandhas, and includes: vedana (feeling), sanna (perception), sankhara (mental fashionings), and vinnana (consciousness). Rupa - Body; physical phenomenon; sense datum. The basic meaning of this word is "appearance" or "form." It is used, however, in a number of different contexts, taking on different shades of meaning in each. In lists of the objects of the senses, it is given as the object of the sense of sight. As one of the khandha, it refers to physical phenomena or sensations (visible appearance or form being the defining characteristics of what is physical). This is also the meaning it carries when opposed to nama, or mental phenomena. Sati - Mindfulness, self collectedness, powers of reference and retention. Sobhana Cetasika - Cetasikas are mental factors that co exist with citta or co arise with citta. They are mind conditioners and they influence mind and condition mind to have different names. They pass away at the very same time when citta falls away. They also have to depend on the same vatthu or base and they also have to take the same object that citta takes. Kusala cittas - Wholesome Consciousness. Moral or skillful consciousness. Sathipattana - Foundation of mindfulness; frame of reference - body, feelings, mind, and mental events, viewed in and of themselves as they occur. Paramattha Dhammas - Paramattha Dhamma or Abhidhamma is not a Dhamma which is beyond one"s ability to understand because paramattha Dhamma is reality. Right view, right understanding, is actually knowing the characteristics of paramattha Dhammas as they really are. Cittas - Mind; heart; states of consciousness. Anatta - Not self; ownerless.

If its any consolation, its equally persistent for more than almost all of us, even those deemed to be grouped under 'non dualists and their do-nothing philosophy'. I don't know if its necessary/helpful to form such a view because this association is not based on any concrete statistic. Likely there will be some who will assert their belonging to a non-dualist clique, and among these, a percentage may indeed ascribe to certain concepts that may appear to suggest they have a penchant for non-action, and further to this, among those with such a bent, again each will tend to have their own take on what non-action means. Because most people fall into the 'Mountains are not mountains' category. Generalizations seldom do any justice, so my own stance is usually to maintain an open mind, mostly preferring observation and reflection above other viable responses. I don't buy into the notion that there are 2 camps - the dualists and the nons. For me, existence, though multi-faceted and full of variety, only appears fragmented-like (dualistic). This appearance feeds the majority of folks. Most wallow in it out of ignorance. Its essence, however (call it buddha nature, or whichsoever label one prefers), is primordially pure, and its nature has always been in perfect union. For those whose chaos has brought them to a crossroad of sorts, there are 2 options - work from the view that they need to sieve thru all the fragments in attempts to piece their lives back whole, or choose the latter path, ie to work from a place where essence and nature is revealed unmistakably to the initiate by way of abhisheka (empowerments) or pointing out instructions by a master. This is basically what Vajrayana practitioners get to work with. This approach offers the kind of assurance that helps to sidestep potentially massive amounts of doubt and insecurities.

Alas, not for all This pyramidal toilet The queue is endless

"There is no such thing in reality as an ego; it is merely illusory. It is made up of a compilation of arbitrary points of view supplied by mental processing and powered by feelings and emotions. These desires represent the attachments that the Buddha spoke of as the bondage of suffering. With absolute humility, the ego dissolves. The ego is a collection of arbitrary mental processes that gain force only because of vanity and habit. If one lets go of the vanity of thought, it dissolves. All thought is vanity. All opinions are vanities. The pleasure of vanity is therefore the basis of the ego -- unplug it, and it collapses." "It is well to keep in mind at all times that the ego/mind does not experience the world, but only its own perception of it." ~ David Hawkins