C T

that rotund master with the stick was quite amusing too.

Dzogchen is simultaneously the path and the fruition of the path ~ inseparable. Ati. Vajrayana is still Maha and Anu, meaning thru Right practice, fruition will occur without fail. There is still a delay period, whereas in Dzogchen this pause does not arise. my understanding anyways.

Sadly, that hasn't deterred people in 'spiritual circles' from portraying that role all too often. Look at that Lama Dondrup Dorje aka Dr Yeung as a prime example. Impressive website - one big, fat scam. http://www.dharmawheel.net/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=9597

Sorry... misunderstanding. That was not meant for you.

the 99% need spiritual-ity if only they listened to their own normal-ity throwin hard-earned bucks into pockets of those who swagger like ducks... aint no way, yor mama wont pay so wake up, y'all dont be fooled by them glammy gurujis cos all they care for is their annual vacation to St. Dalfour! (sorry, got a little carried away...)

Here, some really cool words of wisdom from a real practitioner.... rappin' yogi extraordinaire!

He is impressive alright, charging up to $10k for a 2-week retreat for those who clamber furiously to join his 'elite' sangha. Lots of shady undertones, verified by some members here on this very forum. Please dont get so easily swayed by displays of energetic manifestations. Keep a pure practice, and stick to it. One is enough.

in a world full of magic and wonder, some displays impress more than others, some leave lasting impressions, while most other plays deemed insignificant recede into the world of dreams, where all possibilities begin.... before manifestation. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mYI7sk9Phsc Is the above credible? generally, its always good to Be wary of deception. Depend on your own higher wisdom. Test everything more times than necessary before jumping up and down gleefully as though finding a hidden piece of precious jewel. As for this Lama, wasn't he Chinese before assuming the 'tibetan lama' role? I remember a couple of my friends used to learn Wing Chun from him years ago. Probably not too profitable teaching Wing Chun. Not saying he is fake, but would be nice to get some updated info on his 'tibetan' affiliation. Sorry, Zen Bear... the word out here in Europe is that he is without repute.

Thats the crux of my post. For those stuck on the mentations pertaining to their particular level of understanding, no matter what is shown to them it will not cause any further clarity to arise. So, what exactly is your point in making this thread? Perhaps that could help the discussion further.

There are no superior or inferior paths (in the Buddhist tradition). Due to the varying degrees in mental capabilities/potentialities of students, unfortunately the above had to come into existence. But its simply expedient ~ Means nought. Its quite pointless to give the most superior teaching to one of average mental capacity. Likewise, its going to be a let-down to train intelligent students using more time-consuming teachings, like sutras/sastras, for example. Typically, there will always be comparative tendencies, which tells on the person actually bothering to exert effort to make such comparisons. Distractions, all of it. edit to add: In actual settings, depending on the students' aims, those who wish to pursue a path where teaching Dharma is a priority, then all the levels are equally vital to learn. And those who go on to Geshe level (usually the brightest minds) spend more time on mastering the basic teachings, because they realize most of their students belong to the middling group of people.

Actually, you think your posts are full of clarity etc ~ sorry, but mostly its just taking wild stabs. Baseless and lacking in factuality. Resorting to conjecture and probably hearsay is not a good way to expect any serious consideration in what you are trying to convey. My comprehension skills are fine thanks, and the not-so-subtle jibe at the end says a lot about you. Its obvious you have been taken for a ride by some charlatan claiming to be a Lama (there are a few of those around) and got burnt in a lasting way.

in your previous post, you did say that Vajrayana puts an emphasis on a reliance of BAD teachers (have no clue what you mean by this, but anyways...), thats why i am interested to know how much have you experienced, how involved you have been to actually bash the tradition in such a way, as though the whole of Tibet owes you something. I mean, you are even bashing their heritage, come on. If you have an axe to grind, at least be specific about the actual scenario where/when it happened. If you do not have the courtesy/integrity to be specific, then your assertions will lack substance.

how many bad vajrayana experiences have you had to make such accusatory remarks? Seriously, if you had one, and then went on to another, (and another, perhaps) then it kinda gets curious, dont you think so? On the other hand, if all you had was one unsavoury experience, why do you denigrate the whole tradition as such?

no need to get hung up on transmissions. some receive transmissions and dont even know the source nor the real intent. the crazy yogins dont tell you they have done something for you after the fact. Slaps, spitting in people's faces, and other practices deemed preposterous are all common tales which tell how ill omens and bad luck have been deflected from the ones at the receiving end. Such are the nature of their blessings, in accordance with their wisdom. Only lamas of a certain level of achievement can see this, and so they recognize these individuals as powerful yogins to receive teachings and empowerments from. So, can i say to these tibetan gurus they are telling tall tales? No way.

thank you! x

Thats not possible as these accounts were related first-hand by a handful of rinpoches whom i have met over the years. But this could be of interest: http://www.case.edu/affil/tibet/booksAndPapers/Saintly_Madman_Tibet.pdf

there is no misunderstanding. you have to hear it straight from the lamas' themselves.

Get the accounts off a Tibetan guru next time you meet one.

--- peace ---

rainbow body is good. Is it achievable? Maybe, maybe not, depending on one's karmic disposition in this bardo of life. For the duration of dzogchen practice, one has to drop even the faintest notion of this attainment, otherwise it arises as an obstacle. Therefore, realistically, masters dont say the zenith is that, rather, they say its liberation of clinging to a self. If even the subtlest trace of clinging is fully eradicated, the rainbow body arises as the ultimate fruition. So, the practice towards that end is to be aware of mind nature, and not "be aware of achieving rainbow body". The difference is like night and day.

--- peace ---

Please do not overestimate the simplicity of Dzogchen by pointing to the primordial termas all the time as though everyone wants to be a dzogchen scholar. To the everyday practitioner saying such things does nothing to further their understanding of the basis and fruition of the dzogchen path. See the quote by the 9th Karmapa in my signature? He did not say that to achieve self-liberation one has to know all the complex stuff ~ all he said was, "Appearances are mind, mind is empty, emptiness is spontaneously present at all times, recognizing this each moment (arouses bodhicitta) which swiftly leads to liberation". This is the zenith of the whole dzogchen path.

-- peace --

Anyone who has a history of clashing with Malcolm is automatically pencilled out of the dzogchen equation, gear or no gear. Malcolm is not Tibetan either, but he has the charisma and official title of 'Loppon' which i assume some would find charming.

Knowing a thing or two is fine, thinking that just because one knows a thing or two suddenly validates/elevates one to judge others is not fine. A true dzogchen practitioner means a truly open person. He or she rests in the centre and is not so much concerned with what happens around that. You have been around long enough ~ i think ~ to know this is the fundamental position of one who practices dzogchen.