C T

Serene Blue... I admire your courage and commitment. I just want to say, it really is tough to understand what this poster who goes by the name Vmarco is saying, even when s/he tries to write intelligibly. Take, for example, posts 58 and 64, where, to the unawares, it appears like the writer wants to explain to show his learned wisdom, but, seriously, i'm Buddhist by birth, started reading sutras when i was a kid, not especially bright, but i get by, yet, i could not, for the life of me, derive any meaning from those words, yet, the hidden tone, the condescendingness, especially the 2-liner response to Shen Lung's question, says it all, so audibly in fact, that it literally hurt my eardrums. What kind of an idiot, who claims to have attained realization since '74, would write a 2-lined response to such an intelligent, sincere question? I would never take Vmarco's writings as substantial enough to invest time in contemplation, and i would encourage you to tread carefully too. To engage him/her is spiritual seppuku, the master of disinformation that s/he is. Look at what he said Ingersoll was, and then try to verify that with Ingersoll's wikigraphy. Atheist my arse. And calling someone a thief, my, thats really neat.

only when i start laughing out loud and hard upon reading yours.

CT took his first pee when he was a couple of hours old.

Great fatherly advice, sir. Too late, i say. The flicker of hope that s/he will cop on and make the necessary adjustments has completely faded. Now, even if the will to compromise and talk nice reignites, the ego will not, will never, ever, allow the act to materialize. Can you imagine the consequences should Vmarco suddenly appear here (what, January 1st you proposed?) conversing normally, like most other bums? God forbid that another sheeple be born!! By his haughtiness and natural ability to always rub people the wrong way, s/he has failed to take to heart the advice of one of the founding fathers of freethinking, Robert Ingersoll, who wisely said, "Happiness is the only good. The time to be happy is now. The place to be happy is here. The way to be happy is to make others so." Now, this statement, as it stands, truly hallmarks the bodhisattva ideal.

Yvw, A. I like this part: "Its not enough for a bodhisattva of the Mahayana to just uphold the precepts. There are times when you have to break them, too. Its just that when you do, you have to do so with the resolve of also being willing to accept whatever consequences might follow. That's what 'together with all sentient beings' -- (no matter what hell one might fall into) -- really means." For slating Vmarco here with such insolence, i know i am already hell-bound. I am prepared though. The deeper it gets, the cleaner i become. The hotter it gets, the faster will accumulated karmic dross burn. So, lets not be selfish hypocrites and pretend that enlightenment awaits. Hell it is for me. Lets do it. It'll be some ride. Vmarco can have my merits, he'll surely get enlightened, on the 'short path' that he is.

I just found out that 'Dainin' is a bodhisattva. 'Dainin' is Japanese for 'true adult/bodhisattva'. Dainin, where are you? Buddhist mag 'Tricycle' points a finger at what a bodhisattva is ~ http://www.tricycle.com/new-buddhism/bodhisattvas/what-bodhisattva

*browbeating* that's such an apt description. The urban buddhist dictionary defines a bodhisattva as one who browbeats others into submissive agreement, then the one who submits becomes ready for the quantum leap. NOt! Reminds me of those outdated US power seminars where participants, deprived of sleep for hours, succumb to trainers who, having gained a distinct advantage, proceed to bombard them silly, break down all resistance, make them sob like babies, and then claim to rebuild a whole new person thru positive affirmations and such. All in a space of four days! They used to call that team-building and leadership training. Funny, come to think of it, how i could actually be recruited by them as a trainer all those years ago. Yikes. Good life experience, tho.

Because s/he is a free-thought buddhist? And, a freeeee-thinking buddhist (yes, singular) has no obligation to discuss things in context. Heck, even to discuss is beyond the norm, when the premise remains something like this..."You spoiler, me bodhisattva, me dont come and go, whereas you dont know when to stop...." + + and so it goes, on and on. How droning...

Fledglings should instinctively know they are not ready to fly yet. There are those who try to argue that even fledglings should attempt to fly, otherwise they'll never be able to. Such proponents of 'short path' methods are, as Seth wisely said, dangerous to others, especially some whose steps are yet steadied. Your diplomacy could hurt someone. Niceties are reserved for social gatherings. Its good to be mostly polite, but sometimes, those who can see more should forewarn when the territory gets a bit iffy.

Yes, descriptive terms are only helpful up to a point. Past that, who knows? At the end of the day, what counts is the intent behind the activity, its direction, and to move to where one needs to get to. After the crossing, why carry the boat on one's back?

Ah, true on some level. On some other level, Compassion seeks out the lowliest places, places where its needed, without a 'we' having to ask for its presence. It works mysteriously, akin to the 'holy spirit', i guess. This is evident in those who experience profound turnarounds in their lives, usually at the precipices of utter desolation and on the brink of complete abandonment of clutching at something called 'life', does Compassion manifest. She can come in many forms, in as many 'faces'. Not the only times when She manifests, though. The chirping of a bird... that, for some, is a work of Compassion too. And, telling someone to wake up from the dream that he or she is a bodhisattva, that is also an activity borne of Compassion. Its not always necessarily soft, but the essence of its arising is always at the heart.

Thanks for the confirmation that you are actually not a bodhisattva. Lacking equanimity... this is your problem. You make bodhisattvas out to be some cold-hearted 'assassins'. So wrong. so wrong. Wise sages and teachers, one of the first qualities apparent in their demeanor is their extraordinary warmth, which seem to flow evenly and unceasingly to everything and everyone. You? You cant even get beyond the duality of seeing some dogs as dangerous, with stupid owners, and those that are not so. Such a fundamental tell-tale sign of being stuck, being contracted. Sorry man, long way yet. Hope is good though. Keep at it. Someday, some lifetime, it will happen.

Exactly right. They all exist in the eye of the beholder. There are no bodhisattvas outside of one's mind. Do people really think the halo depicted in all the images of saints and sages are self-generated? "Hey im a bodhisattva, give me one of those halos, or else... " Nope, its one of a handful of symbols of veneration ~ a supreme sign of illumination as recognized by others. Self-professed ones come cheap, but could in fact end up costing one dearly.

count yourself fortunate, sir, that so n'so did not call you a 'clut' instead.

What is mind? Where is mind? How is transformation of mind effected to bring about the attainment of complete and utter liberation from the prison of unawareness and dualistic perception? The quintessential pointers, as revealed by Guru Rinpoche. http://www.fodian.net/world/zzgse.html

There is a difference between detachment (no other) and non-attachment (no self). Here's a simple illustration: A person walks past a bird bath, pausing for a millisecond, notices that an ant, having fell into the bath, was making feeble attempts not to drown. Occupied with own thoughts in the background, he walks away, detachedly. Another person walks by, notices the same ant, still struggling there, and without hesitation or mental drama, picks up the creature and puts it somewhere safe and dry. It just seemed the right thing to do at that particular moment, he reflected afterwards. In this instance, there was no expectation of reward, and he was not particularly puffed up over saving a small ant. It was something spontaneous, there was a meeting of minds, and the 'self' was very briefly suspended in that small unfolding which ensued. This could perhaps clear up some confusion for some people over the notion of Buddhist non-attachment. Its really not about forsaking or giving up everything to the point of neglect. Non-attachment infers a state of mind whereby the one not attached would somehow know instinctively how to act to bring accord to any situation, and instigate a new direction in which the immediacy of a peaceful, harmonic outcome becomes quite apparent for all.

Perhaps the term 'void' could be construed as a mental label on some level, but on some other level, upon deeper investigation via the practice of shamatha and vipassana, one can hope to access subtler and subtler modes of dissolving conceptualization until confidence is gained (via actual experience) as to the actual nature of mind in relation to the 'void'. This confidence can be very helpful in gradually dissolving dualistic concerns, and would eventually lead to resolving most if not all hopes and fears. Thru this resolution, a great inner freedom will begin to bloom. One's fixations gradually dissolves, and this paves the way for excelling in whatever secondary practices one chooses to partake in, be it external or internal cultivation forms, energetic pursuits.... etc. What this implies, from the Buddhist perspective, is that first one must fully grasp the view of the true nature of mind, then follow up with other forms of practice (not restricted to Buddhist ones of course) which will reinforce this initial glimpse in order to arouse further conviction and stability. In this way, progress will be swifter due to having already actualized the seeing of what true emancipation really means. Without this seeing, doing other practices will entail quite a bit of hit-n-misses, wasting time/money in lieu of, and repeating/reinforcing wrong methods should they happen to arise. Gain the insight into what sky is first, then whatever the weather, one's spirit will remain resolute (thanks, RV ). If one does not realize the essence of the spacious, wide-open skylike nature of the mind, then even a small cloud can be seen as significant. From then on, a chain of delusion will be set in motion, this small cloud could be misconstrued in a million ways, distractions will set in, very likely resulting in the displacement of one's well-being in the process. By gaining maturity in the practices of shamatha and vipassana, it allows one to actually become more and more aware of distractive and discursive thoughts and emotional patterns. Over time, thru familiarity of recognizing and dissolving habitual reactive responses, or some would employ the term 'mindfulness', one can then masterfully and spontaneously deflect with ease the seeds which give rise to negativity, thereby cutting off their potential to create harmful karmic roots. Eventually, even those seeds of old which have already taken root will perish as the new, positive and invigorating freedom dawns brighter and brighter. This is like wu-wei, in that there is no real need to search and analyze past negativities ~ by allowing light to enter into new habitual responses, eventually this light will seek out and illuminate what darkness there may be, and their lurking will diminish for sure.

Found an extensive listing for Dzogchen and Mahamudra books... just thought it'd be nice to share. http://www.tibetanla...e/Dzogchen.html Note please: Being too absorbed in reading these books can be a real distraction! So, exercise discernment and frugality! Plus, they do cost quite a bit. I know of some avid 'dzogchen' book aficionados who have spent a fortune stocking up on volumes of these books, but have trouble in uniting view and conduct. Reading and contemplation is great ~ clinging, not so.

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Marvelous indeed! Aptly titled book from which the quote was extracted ~ Fearless Simplicity !!

I should be the one thanking you, Anamatva, for starting this thread. Its very helpful as i find my faith and motivation increasing from reading of your's and other's experiences. Tsoknyi Rinpoche gave very good, practical advice on how to stabilize rigpa: http://www.tsoknyirinpoche.org/teachings/clinging/

Seeing that Christmas is upon us, it seems appropriate to share this wonderfully helpful article with my dzogchen friends here. http://www.tsoknyirinpoche.org/teachings/loving-kindness-and-compassion-in-the-dzogchen-tradition/ Please accept it as a small token of gratitude for your kind patience and unlimited tolerance for having allowed me space to ramble on like a mr. know-it-all. Be assured that i am certainly not an expert nor learned geshe... and if my yappings have offended anyone, i confess to being an ignorant mule who must be taught a great lesson in humility, as Tibetan Ice kindly pointed out in one of his earlier posts. (Not that he said that i have to be taught this lesson, but gave a general reminder that humility is a virtuous trait to cultivate, which i fully endorse to be true.) Happy holidays, everybawdeee!!

"One who endeavors to be a Dzogchen sadhaka cannot afford to cut corners. It is due to the desire to cut corners that samsara exists." "The foundational Vajrakilaya is the sun shining in the sky behind the clouds. The Path Vajrakilaya is the removal of the clouds from the sky through the force of wind and rain, or whatever; it is the path of method and wisdom, combined. And the resultant Vajrakilaya is the nature of your mind, the nature of your rigpa, which is the same mind as the mind of the primordial buddha, Kuntuzangpo. The Path Vajrakilaya is the removal of the adventitious veil of obscuration that covers rigpa. Applying the method by practicing generation stage (kyerim) and completion stage (dzogrim), accumulating merit and purifying negative karma, removing that veil, is the path. The result is the realizing that one's self nature is buddha. So the result is the same as the foundation. In the beginning you are a buddha, and in the end you are a buddha." *both quotes from Gyatrul Rinpoche, another esteemed Dzogchen master. Anyone who reads the last line, and then assumes that the buddha at the beginning is the same buddha at the end of the journey has work to do. Even though a seed contains the potential to be a plant or a tree, whether it gets to be one or the other is dependent on many conditions coming together. One cannot say the seed is not tree, either. Where can one draw a clear demarcation? Its impossible. The process determines the end result, in all instances. Hi TI, Your comment about the bad deck of cards really made me laugh. You sure have a way with words, that much i can say. There's really not much more room to continue our discussion. Your mind seem pretty much made up, and the undercurrent in the tone of some of your comments suggests (i could be mistaken) that you enjoy, to a degree, undermining and/or invalidating teachers who dont teach according to the way you want to understand the Dzogchen teachings. Understandably so, given your penchant for wanting strongly to uncover the ultimate trip, which, in Dzogchen, does not exist. There really is no 'boom', or 'pop', even. Perhaps one day you will connect with a true Dzogchen master, and have that opportunity to validate this for yourself. I wish you well, my friend.

Hi TI, Yes, it appears we have differing opinions. I used 'rigpa mind' metaphorically, just as 'breaking thru to the other side' is sometimes used by teachers metaphorically. In actuality, there is no other side, other than one's belief that there is. You mentioned correctly that one cannot miss rigpa. The reason is obvious... it is there all the time, not some state to reach thru contrivance. I cannot understand (at this point in time) your insistance that there is an implosion of sorts.. perhaps i may yet do, at some stage. Maybe then we could establish a more common ground to discuss this implied occurrence. Its also obvious we disagree with the statement that realizing rigpa is realizing buddhahood. The entire premise of this statement falls short of understanding Ground, Path and Fruition, the basis of training in the View. Though there is some truth in saying that one can go back and forth, in and out of resting in the natural state (in some circles its called 'View', a term very familiar among students of Sogyal Rinpoche). This line of thinking is further cemented by Shantideva when he implored: "He who wants to avoid the hundredfold pain of existence, who wants to still the sufferings of sentient beings, who wants to enjoy the hundredfold happiness, such a one must never abandon the Thought of Enlightenment. As soon as the Thought of Enlightenment takes root in him, the miserable one who is fettered by passions to the prison of existence, becomes immediately a son of the Buddhas! He becomes worthy of veneration in the world of man and of gods! As soon as this thought has taken possession of this unclean body, it transforms it into the precious gem of a buddha's body. Therefore, take hold of this elixir, which causes this wonderful transformation, and which is called the Thought of Enlightenment!" As per the above quote, the Ground (intent) is overcoming the pains of ignorance, the Path is learning not to abandon the Thought of Enlightenment (holding the View to the point of reaching stable recognition in each moment), and finally, the Fruition, Buddhahood. If rigpa is buddhahood itself, then the whole basis of the Dzogchen teachings on Ground, Path and Fruition turns into some sort of a simplistic sham, which it definitely is not. There is nothing special at all to be experienced when the guru blesses the student to recognize Mind (its true nature, that is). Those who think otherwise will do well to remember the words of Samten Gyatso, who is the root guru of one of Tibet's most revered yogi, Tulku Urgyen --- he said, "I have not had a single special experience. As the years pass by, my trust in the authencity of Dharma grows. I am confident in the truth of the three kayas. From the age of eight I looked into the essence of mind, and since then I have never forsaken it. My diligence varied and of course I became distracted at times, but mostly I have kept to the practice of mind essence." http://www.rangjung....mten_Gyatso.htm It might be helpful to take Samten Gyatso's words to heart, for he is indeed a fully liberated being. Wallace is a sharp teacher in his own right, but i would never disregard the advice of someone who was regarded by the 15th Karmapa as "the only person who has fully realized non-dual awareness." Being initiated into one's own mind essence, where one gets a small glimpse into the union of wisdom and emptiness, is only the tip of the journey. As we can deduce from the Karmapa's statement, to reach full realization does require a lot of practice. Having said this, i think its really significantly moot to even consider the question whether my consciousness ('My' becomes meaningless then, dont you agree?) expanded into all things in the universe at that time when i received introduction. In recollection, i do remember that accompanying that moment was fleeting moments of very profound peace, the taste of which has lingered to this day. The thing is, i did not, and still do not, yearn for that state of peace. On the contrary, each time it suffuses my being spontaneously, i simply remember to sustain recognition of mind essence, making feeble attempts to emulate the great Samten Gyatso. Peace, my friend.

Count yourself lucky then.