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It may be helpful to consider that centuries back, nothing was written down, and all transmissions were passed orally, so its not too accurate to lay the claim as you have made above. Its not hard to imagine how unobstructed oral transmissions can be, so i would imagine there would be mystics carrying these transmissions far and wide, still in its oral mode, long before any of this began to find their way into written forms, that which you call the Sanatana Dharma. India, being the size it is, would have, even within its own boundaries, evolved a large variety of scripts, each with its own peculiar connotations and nuances, so would it be safe to assume that even within the Brahminic lineages there could already have taken place some sort of cross-pollination, which could lead to the presumtive possibility that the purity of the Sanatana Dharma is likely from the point of faith alone. By the time written scripts began to gain significance, the Pali oral teachings have already been carried far and wide, eventually to lands as far as Sri Lanka, Burma, Thailand, Mongolia, Tibet and so on. Not surprisingly, there have been found carvings of Pali texts in Aramaic, the language of Christ. Thankfully, this did not devalue the efficacious essence of the teachings, including the mantras that were transmitted down to all the various lineages throughout history. Its apparently not as straightforward as you have wanted to assume here - its not like the Buddhists went to India to borrow mantras, but mantras somehow found their way, with the help of many mystical adepts who have transcended all religious leanings, out of India and gradually seeped into so many other spiritual traditions, even long before the Sanatana Dharma was officially designated. I am only thinking out loud here, and offering a different view point.

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:lol:

Are you implying that you have reached the pinnacle of your spiritual goal, like was this what you have always yearned for on your quest, and have now attained it? Do you feel there are still loftier heights to reach or is this IT? I am really interested to know.

Enduring cold could largely depend on body constitution and not how much one eats. Cultivation counts too - even those who exercise in a very disciplined fashion, like regimentally getting up at half 4 or 5 each morning to do yoga, tai chi, jogging or even 20 minutes of stretching for that matter, will naturally experience a heightened resilience to the cold. A neighbor of mine (he's forty something) goes jogging at around 4 each morning without fail. Nothing stops him... not the sleet nor the snow... even now, in deep winter, he's still attired in a similar way as during the warmer months - shorts, t-shirt and runners. Another friend i know is a keen guru yoga devotee - she does hundreds of prostrations every day as part of her practice - lives frugally up in one of the coldest parts of the island, with only a small stove in her kitchen as a source of home heating. She takes only cold showers, regardless of temp. Eats sparsely as well... a piece of buttered bread and tea for breakfast, some fruits or muesli around 11, and maybe pasta or a bit of rice and veg at around 5, and thats it for the day. How much is 'little' by your definition?

Indeed it can, and we ought to take this advice to heart. A friend mentioned how much she liked the book after i had told her that someone i trust with good judgement had recommended it, so cheers! In turn, she had asked that i mention here two books by Sharon Salzberg which, she told me, is similarly themed. One is Real Happiness: The Art of Meditation, and the other, Lovingkindness: The Revolutionary Art of Happiness. Both have been highly lauded. I found one of her quotes to be highly inspiring... "Metta sees truly that our integrity is inviolate, no matter what our life situation may be. We do not need to fear anything. We are whole: our deepest happiness is intrinsic to the nature of our minds, and it is not damaged through uncertainty and change." (from Lovingkindness: The RA of H)

The difference between misery and happiness depends on what we do with our attention. -- Sharon Salzberg synchronicity!!

This is all well and good, but too much head work involved. I have noticed that Dharma teachers who are able to translate such profound views into chewable, relatable portions are always the ones who are well-liked. Your realizations are akin to someone who has had a few long retreats under his/her belt, and those who may be thinking of Dharma practice for the just reason of easing their mental agonies, or perhaps as a means to learn how to end the torments of habitual negative tendencies, may well find your wisdom (which i appreciate very much) beyond their grasp. I dont know, maybe yours is the right approach, and i am blind to it. Back in the days when i was an active sangha member i have met a handful of people who have just completed long-term, closed retreats where they study and practice Vajrayana Buddhism and tantric meditation from 4am to about 9pm every day for the full year (of course with breaks for meals and a walkabout in the closed-off garden, a bit like a prison routine ) yet when they have completed the retreat, they tend to want to relate with others, especially newer students, from the perspective of everyday experiences. I guess thats where the real challenge lies, to share the Dharma in ways that do not require deep deciphering. Just some thoughts...

Sometimes even seasoned meditators experience small blips and miss the subtle and not-so-subtle difference between what is useful and what is essential. Essential = mental state Useful = correct posture Essential = breathing Useful = breath-counting as a meditation tool Essential = life Useful = good health etc. a few others as well, too obvious to state. Ajahn Chah used to tease some of his students by asking why some people say they have no time to meditate, and why these same people wont say they have no time to breathe!! Antoine de Saint-Exupery: And now, here is my secret: a very simple secret - it is only with the heart that one can see rightly, what is essential is invisible to the eye.

Touche! According to the Theravadin adept Ajahn Buddhadasa Bhikkhu... "Suitable Posture is any one of the four postures - sitting, lying, standing, and walking - that benefits one's practice. Which particular posture is to be preferred can be discovered by personal experiment. The meditator need to find out in which posture his mind can most easily become concentrated and remain so. Having found his Suitable Posture, the meditator should keep to it. Once he has become proficient in concentration he can then use the remaining 3 postures interchangeably so that he can further develop one-pointedness regardless of posture." One may well ask of what use is a mind trained in one-pointedness, to which the Tao Te Ching quickly advices: Amidst the worldly comings and goings, observe how endings become beginnings.

Thank you for lending your voice, Guruyoga. I too have been fortunate to have been tutored by a few Dzogchen yogis, none of whom would 'sell' the benefits of the FL the way its been vehemently touted by Drew here. When asked, they would always respond by encouraging students to work within their own abilities and comfort, and not get dazzled/distracted by all the 'jumbo' stuff, which can be nice, but, in the end, are but trimmings. They also said that as one progresses along the 'higher' paths, it will become clearer why all those things we think are so crucial eventually become deadweights if we cannot overcome the gross and subtle attachments which we often place on them. The very things that helps us progress would be the very same stuff that pulls us down if we are not able to move past the ideas we have of their role as mere tools, and how we adapt and learn to work with these tools, our mental position, are somehow always more vital than the tools themselves. Even people who are physically impaired have the same potential for spiritual realizations. Its a universal gift.

There is such an element of naivete in your statements, Drew. Cross-legged means full-lotus?? I can see why its important for you to interpret it this way, its very obvious. I think what you meant was your own meditative success, right? Apparently, the best way to know if one's meditation is progressing or not is when one leaves meditation... sounds funny, but thats the most appropriate gauge, dont you think? When one is in formal meditative poise of course its easy to think one is a successful meditator, whatever that means. How one translates formal practice back into mundane activities is what really counts, where the real heart of spirituality reveals itself thru one's interactions with others and with self. Without this dynamic, which is what the ascetics of the Ganges lack, its so easy to remain fooling oneself that one is such a great meditator, especially with the added bonus of paying some 'master' to endorse that one is indeed making great progress, and as if that wasn't enough, to have to then encourage others to do the same. Please dont misunderstand - i believe CYL is doing a wonderful job healing people (but i think he charges too much) - and i also believe in the efficacy of the FL position. It is an ideal pose, but to say its the pinnacle of meditative expertise is a flawed assertion. There is just as much benefit to be derived from mindfully performing menial tasks as it is to sit in formal meditation, but quite a number of Westerners, from what i have seen so far, seem to fall flat in their ability to correlate these two activities, which is a shame. Scotty made some excellent points which i think says so much more than what i can. You should seriously take what he says into consideration.

If FL was such a be-all-end-all thing, there must logically be vast numbers of enlightened beings to be found dotted all along the Ganges, so-called sadhus who pretend to be 'holy' just so they could licence themselves to smoke pot all day ( i'll do a Drew haha here! ) and waste their lives away sitting in full-lotus - just a whole culture of lost individuals who are either too lazy to work or who mistakenly think their God will whisk them into the heavens after this life just because they sit in FL day and night. Perhaps the emphasis which has been somewhat lost is that one ought to train the mind to 'sit in full-lotus' as one goes about doing normal, everyday stuff, rather than becoming overly obsessed with the actual physical posture itself, which is, honestly, beyond the scope of many people, and which is, in fact, quite impractical, whereas it can be a worthwhile and achievable feat to lead the mind in Stillness while one is engaged with normal activities, and this is so much more useful. Just think how silly it is to tell someone who cannot physically adopt the FL posture that he or she cannot achieve spiritual advancement. The truth is they can, through systematic mind training, so i think most of what Drew says regarding the miraculous nature of the physical lotus posture is inaccurate, at least where spiritual cultivation is concerned. This Nityama fellow, when he is energetically pleasuring the women, does he sit in FL? I havent watched any of the vids, but am guessing he does not. Out of the thousands of 'holy' folks who hang out along the Ganges, who contort their bodies and smoke pot all day, one would be hard-pressed to find even a few who are free from the prison of grasping and ignorance.

Simple Jack, Do you assert the existence of such a reality where sentient beings contribute to in an interdependent process? (curious)

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Hehe... didnt mean to set off the alarm bells Look up the history of the word - it was originally intended to describe a particular kind of man. No offense.

For your love of quotes, here's one for you courtesy of Geshe Tenzin Zopa: Some might think that as one has attended Lam Rim teachings for 30 years, it is pointless or even embarrassing to attend basic Lam Rim classes. This is completely wrong thinking. Its a little humorous though... like, where did all these lengthy exhortations of yours arise from if not from your sense base? I am wondering if you might be shooting yourself in the foot, even a little bit? What is 37 years compared to uncountable lifetimes of conditioned ignorance? (Not implying you are ignorant - more like a question directed at my own lack of wisdom). I was born Buddhist, practiced in a few lineages for over 45 years, yet do not make the kind of arrogant proclamations which often accompany your rebuttals. Its ok if at least you were accurate - most of the time you are so far off the mark that i'd be afraid to further offer counter observations lest you become even more confused. Since you like to speak of the realizations of one who has attained Bodhi so much, i am hoping you are familiar with Ngulchu Thogme? Anyway, observance number 31 in his work The 37 Practices of a Bodhisattva states: Not examining your own confusion, you may act contrary to Dharma in a practitioner's guise. Therefore, always examining your own confusion, to discard it is the practice of Bodhisattvas.

Great question! I guess gullibility will never grow out of fad. People are so rich and so bored, so fed up and impatient with conventional spiritual practices that they would pawn their underwear if they have to just so they could get a taste of the next new 'high'. In my view, there'll be loads of 'new' trans-stuff disguised as 'spiritual' arriving on the shores pretty soon. (haha - the way Drew likes it). The market is vast and ripe for charlatans and harlots to strut their ware (not implying anything remotely associated with this character Nityama btw).

You see, this is because you assume Buddhism has some kind of monopoly on compassion - it does not, hence its incorrect to assert that compassion arises in one who attends to the 4 Noble Truths. There are many good paths besides Buddhism which are compassion-based, but none of these adhere to the concept of the 4 Noble Truths as the principal tenet of their path - however, its evident that all genuine traditions incorporate general principles along the same vein as the Eightfold Path, thus clearly justifying my view as correct and yours as missing the mark. Buddhism, regardless of vehicle, does not consistently state that there has to be a realization of emptiness or else compassion is impossible. Such a statement epitomizes dogmatic inclinations and puritanical views, both of which the Buddha strongly rejects. The realization of emptiness is emphasized only by certain Buddhist yanas - its not a universal requirement for learning how to apply the Eightfold Path into one's daily living, with the ultimate result of the cessation of all mental afflictions. Realizing emptiness is not a prerequisite towards this end.

Imagine being lost in the desert. You have a camel for company, and on its back are two satchels each containing gold and silver bars. Unfortunately, there is a great thirst and painful hunger, and those bars aren't exactly edible nor drinkable... along comes this guy who promises to lead you to an oasis with plenty of fresh water and good food in exchange for a couple of them ingots... would there be any hesitation? Better be a camel. Almost hassle-free in the desert... almost.

Please dont confuse yourself - i did not say i have mastered compassion - what i wrote is a direct refutation of your belief that it has to be realized before one can effectively practice Tonglen. Compassion is the natural outflow of one who sustains mindful attention of the Noble eight-fold path. There is no need to disguise this fundamental truth to make Buddhism appear more profound by spinning statements which states one has to realize 'form/emptiness' before compassion can be established - this is not the case. Also, its not a refuge. I really hope you would discontinue trying to market your own interpretation and brand of Buddhism. You seem to be constantly encouraging others to operate from the absolute level, when in truth, Buddhism and the Noble 8-fold path is meant to guide practitioners towards seeing the inseparability of the relative and absolute - that one should remain always grounded in the realities of everyday living and discover the way towards finding peace and happiness in this reality, instead of loosing oneself in the clouds trying to create a separate, more perfect one - the Buddha never taught this. The absolute is already contained in the relative. By living according to the fundamental truth as laid out clearly and simply in the Noble 8-fold path, gradually Right View will ensure that both relative and absolute can co-emerge in harmony. This puts an end to conflict in speech, in thoughts and in body - this is the truth of the cessation of afflictive conditions. The practice of living as best as one can guided by the Noble 8-fold path is Tonglen. And how does one realize the result of living accordingly? One of the more noticeable traits is that one begins to think, feel and act in a more compassionate manner, gradually leaning more and more towards altruistic intentions, until finally it can be said that one has attained to the fruition of absoute bodhicitta, where others can also begin to taste the fruits of one's endeavor. If others cant testify to enjoying the fruits, then bodhicitta becomes meaningless and empty - mere words which does not aid practice at all, and also perpetuates ignorance and delusion. (edit) The Noble Eightfold Path here: http://www.thebigview.com/buddhism/eightfoldpath.html

Tonglen as a practice is not for realizing compassion. Compassion is not some state which can be 'realized', no matter what your argument. If anything, its a gross result of deepening practice in mindful living. No one can say, "Look! I have mastered Compassion"... that sounds really silly? Whats not silly is to regard all things as equal (as an ideal) to work towards mastering one's activities expressed thru one's body, words and thoughts. When this is observed to be stably arising in one's stream of being, then all of one's activities will spontaneously manifest compassionate undertones. Specifically, Tonglen is for dissolving attachments, fear, anger, jealousy and clinging to a sense of self before others. Its also an exercise primarily meant to develop equanimity, an essential state which has to be stable prior to heart-mind bearing fruit. This fruition, expressed thru one's thoughts, words and deeds, accumulatively gives rise to bodhicitta, which is roughly translated as 'heart of enlightened mind, or, alternatively, the heart which desires to fulfill the longing of happiness in others'.

Wonderful, thanks. Simple message: Live real ~ Less talk about 'emptiness'

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