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What? 3,600 dollars for a 10-day course? hehehe.... This chigung business is really a profitable machine.

Peace to you in the new year, Scotty. I'm happy to read of the self-work you are currently engaged in. Well done, may you achieve great results! A friend has put in a good word on this book http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/the-yoga-of-the-nine-emotions-peter-marchand/1007647714?ean=9781594770944 - who knows, one may complement the other. Thought i'd pass it on.

Thats another way of saying you are hoping against hope this is the real deal. Your youthful exuberance and enthusiasm is laudable. Now, try and catch some sleep heh?

Yeah, one by your definition, right?

I cant verify this statement because its never been a fond curiosity of mine to determine what an immortal is, nor to seek such individuals out, for obvious reasons. 'Immortal' can be a very misguided term, with lots of different designations and interpretations attached. The possibility of finding one in the flesh, suffice to say, is non-existent. Past that, its all speculative stuff anyway. Hence, i would retain my proposal that the methods are not the issue. The crux of the matter lies in the difficulty in obtaining a method or system that has not been diluted or reworked by individuals to make it more marketable or palatable to the needs of seekers. I have no quarrels with those who revamp a method for the purpose of ease of understanding, but to take a simple method and convert it into a complex one, in the process turning it into a slot machine, is regrettable to say the least.

I am just wondering whether its the methods that are inherently harmful, or the fact that they are misunderstood hence applied incorrectly that bring forth the 'harm' factor? I have never come across a meditation system which purports to bring harm to one who adopts the practices. However, there are some forms which could potentially cause setbacks if the guidelines are ignored. In the last decade, such forms are becoming more rampantly promoted by some 'teachers' in the West, significantly, by those who have spent only a short time gathering 'expertise' and 'substance' in the mystical Far East and/or the Himalayan regions, visiting a few ashrams, or taken a month's worth of lessons with famous yogis, and think they are then proficient enough to give transmissions and lead others on the 'right' path. Problem is, most of these teachers actually are able to convince seekers they are the real deal, as this is not at all difficult to muster - just consult a PR guy or get a pro to do up an impressive resume, and then a marketing dude to put the resume 'out there'. The primary aim will always be to achieve as high a level of legitimacy and transparency simultaneously so that the doubters will have no 'careless loopholes' with which to upset the applecart. Then, the job of gathering personal testimonies begin, without which no teacher can hope to proliferate the system - these are in turn used aggressively as promo material, as irrefutable proof that the method works, and boom! the machinery is set in motion. Not difficult to do at all. The drawbacks, the downsides, the side-effects, the confusions, the nightmares, the incoherencies, depressions, anger, little traumas - these usually will not arise for a while - those who experience such symptoms will quickly be told they have not given the practice enough time to penetrate sufficiently so that the rewiring process can happen at a more fundamental level, while those who experience difficulties after a longer period will be given a different spin. Of course, there are always the post-'graduate' classes which all participants are encouraged to pay to attend, so as to cement what they have learnt, to reduce the chance of wobbliness as fledgling practitioners. They often claim to be available to students 24/7 to 'support' their progress - those who have been down that road will know this is almost always not the case. Of course, for the one or two die-hard students who have themselves a good following of students will be prioritized and given preferential support due to obvious prospective economic reasons.

Wow, what an awesome synchronicity! Was just watching these two vids yesterday.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leJmPpD-Tp8

Yeah, the charitable ways of old is what has gone missing. Unlike you, i do not secretly cherish any idealistic notion that such ways will ever return, not in my lifetime anyways. North, South, East and West... money talks, and in most cases, the louder it screams, the more attention it attracts? Which is why sometimes what most people pay for, unfortunately, is a bunch of useless floss, for example, what could be learned in 6 sessions are stretched out to 6 levels, with each level consisting of 6 sessions, and when that is done, there is always the advanced levels, then the masters levels, then the grand-masters level, and on it goes. Please do not deny that this is happening in a major way in relation to learning the very simple art of chigung (in the West). In itself, there is really nothing very complex to the practice, is there? But like all intelligent societies, when something simple can be recreated into something more complex, it becomes a business opportunity. So in a way, the OP is right... it is a form of cheating. But if people band together and accept that that is the norm, that money have to be paid in order to promptly get off one's bum and put in the effort due to having forked out some hard-earned dosh for it, then that is exactly what becomes formatted. So, the cheating becomes less glaring at the start, and eventually it becomes accepted as a norm, and no longer can it be labelled as cheating. Its justified, in the name of prosperity - not wanting to take advantage of this will then be construed as fear of being frowned upon and stigmatized as a stupid Joe or chanky chang who knows nought how to milk the fat cow for every drop its got. Funny thing is, free and authentic (as compared to expensive and authentic) systems are still available for those who want to ascend to the very top in terms of cultivating the energetic arts, but then most people here (or anywhere) do not have the time nor the inclination nor the patience to faithfully serve one master for years just to pass the stage of novice shoe carrier so that they can move to the next stage of tea maker and so on. Nowadays, speed matters, and for that, peeps better make some fast money to get some fast results. Basic stuff jazzed up to look more attractive to milk those who have, so that the jazzers can also have some of the milk is plain w r o n g. Charge by all means, but at least have the courtesy to be truthful.

This is side-tracking now, so apologies to the topic master. I am sure there are many who claim to teach Tibetan forms of energy cultivation as well, and asking for big money too. Again, these crooked teachers are preying on the gullibility of wanderers everywhere. In more authentic and traditional Tibetan schools, recruits to 'secret' practices are hand-picked by the senior lamas after undergoing months if not years of Dharma lessons to establish a mind grounded in appropriate realizations first. Out of hundreds of novice monks maybe a handful would get selected and then assigned to various yogis for years of tutelage. Even in more contemporary settings, the gist of the selection process remains the same in lineages which conform to traditional ethics. For example, my root lama has a huge base of western students who ascribe to his teachings and practices. Out of this base, there would perhaps be about 40 or 50 individuals who have been with him for quite a while, with some as long as 20 odd years, but as far as i know, of this group of senior students, only 4 have so far been given the opportunity to train in the secret arts with the 'hidden' yogis in Bhutan, India and Nepal. There are a lot of safety issues involved, and the authentic Tibetan masters will never lead students on and promise them that they will all get to cultivate the deeper aspects of the secret arts, regardless of how wealthy the students may be or how much these students are willing to or have donated to the school. I think a very important factor that masters take into consideration before picking someone is how much affinity and merit has been accumulated in the master/student relationship. This is not some concession which can be hastened thru just because someone is a willing financial patron.

Beans are prone to bloat the system with excess wind, which can be uncomfortable, unhealthy and could lead to some embarrassment. I do like beans.... fresh snake beans, french beans, long beans etc are all yummy when steamed and then rolled in a bit of butter and a sprinkle of black pepper! Also nice in spicy curries which i am a real sucker for... the spicier the better haha! To avoid excess buildup of wind i find adding some ginger to the diet helps effectively. One fantastic bean-like veg which i really like (extremely nutritious) and which does not cause wind buildup is the Okra. Lovely steamed, or stir-fried with chillies, lemongrass, cooked tofu and a dash of fish sauce, or can be added to curries to lend a really authentic feel to the dish. Love it! Some proposed benefits of eating Okra: http://www.nutrition-and-you.com/okra.html And, they're so very easy to grow too! Dont require much space and they produce pods very quickly and consistently. Small tip.

I find it quite funny that in the land of the free Chigung can be quite an expensive practice to acquire. Most of the 'famed' so-called masters pay very careful, detailed attention to mould their credentials - understandably so, since their motive is to ride the money-train while the coals are still smoldering !! In Asia, the approach is very direct and simple. Lots of groups practice in parks, athletic fields, even rooftops of apartment buildings, and anyone is welcomed to participate, learn and share progress. Very informal relationships are formed between teacher and students, and there are no 'catches' anywhere. Best of all, its free! I guess different mindsets expect different things, so i guess the western masters cannot be held to account for demanding steep fees since those that seek them out almost expect to pay enough, and then some, almost as if the idea is that the more they pay the more benefits can be accrued. Boggles the mind sometimes.

Sorry didnt mean to imply you were, SJ. Would you agree using the Two Truths is an acceptable method to gain insight? If you do, then it would be clear that the means Harmonious Emptiness has opted as a convening path to reach clarity is as acceptable as any other conventional framework. In the Mulamadhyamikakarika (chapter 24 verses 8 - 10) it is said: The Buddha taught teachings relying on two truths: mundane conventional truth and ultimate truth. Those who do not know the difference between these two truths do not know the profound points in the teachings of the Buddha. The ultimate is not taught without resorting to convention. Without understanding the ultimate, nirvana cannot be attained. More on Two Truths here: http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/twotruths-tibet/ Look up some of Shakya Chogden's commentaries. May be helpful to gain further insight of the Middle Way. Thanks for sharing your thoughts here. Always a joy to get a sip of your deep convictions!

Not all Buddhist scholars would agree to the high regard given to Namdrol. (Anyway, this is besides the point. The thought came to me when i read somewhere above of the acknowledgement of his 'deep' realization... everything he proposes can be equally understood and assimilated by anyone with a degree of intelligence and logicality). Referencing the matter regarding the ground of being, it all depends on one's degree of ability in maintaining 'View'. The more stable 'View' is, the less dependent one becomes on clinging to a 'ground'. Whether the ground exists or not should not even be debated because it would be impossible to arrive at a definitive answer. The Buddha would probably keep silent if He were to be asked to speak on this. One thing He did say (in the very short Sabbam Sutta) about 'The All', which is very simple to understand, is that eye and forms, ear and sounds, nose and smells, tongue and tastes, body and feelings, mind and dhammas is that which makes up 'the All'. There is not anything outside of this 'All'. All that we can know are the objects of the senses, hence the limits or boundaries of experience are set accordingly due to formation of the skandhas as the apparatuses of experience. Outside of these skandhas, can any experiences be validated at all? Or, to speak to the topic, we can ask and reflect if God can have a presence within our consciousness, is this presence experienceable without the apparatuses, and whether or not such presence can be adequately understood thru the intellect. No answer is really important here, since this could well be a lifetime's process of discovery, and whomsoever would attempt to assert or negate with any finality would be subjecting himself or herself to a contracted process, and perhaps even ridicule, which is the exact opposite of what a spiritual journey ought to do for one. Wiki explains Buddhist 'View' - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_(Buddhism)

I liked your essay in the previous page. (sorry, page 2 it was.) -- edited --

Thanks, Drew, but i have to politely decline the offer. My needs are quite simple, and moreover, i am not big into your theories, most of which can stretch the mind at the best of times. And i also disagree with your stance on the vital role of the full-lotus position. You have a dependency, and as all dependencies go, its not healthy.

I have no wish to argue. The contents in Drew's posts can have a bewildering effect on some people. If you happen to find in them some gems you could use, then good for you. Alas, the issue is not about interpretations because there was not even a hint of abstract content in the above post. If you re-read it, you may see the contradictions and the misleading nature quite clearly without having to use any sort of interpretational assumptions.

Ideas like the above are quite scary. They could well create a lot of causes for confusion and misdirection to arise in those with middling wisdom. Not saying it will for definite, but the potential is quite alarming, to say the least. Good thing there are some wise Bums here who quickly respond to bring attention to others when such potentially unhelpful causes are detected.

Out of desperate vanity, or perhaps fear, people will resort to any means to resist the onslaught of old age and physical decline. Every one wants to remain youthful forever. Therein lies the easiest way to snaggle people out of a few bob.

If i was always high i would more than likely think that my life is perfectly fine too.

May you all be blessed with the ability to create causes for peace, understanding and joy to grow in your hearts and minds. Happy Christmas folks!

This may come as a shock to some/many... there is no stable ground haha! Thru sufficient contemplative work, it can be observed very clearly the impermanence of space and time. Every thing is fleeting, there is no guarantee things will stay the way they are. People presume they do - there is a lot of potential fear, anger, disappointment, ignorance, and other potentially negative emotions tied in to this very basic presumption. Its said that correct contemplation practices help to train one to become fearless. How so? One of the ways is to see how fragile the idea of building and possessing a strong foundation is - perhaps there is no foundation? Thinking there is one causes people to chase after those things which they think will make this idea of a foundation more solid, and so theres always grasping and aversion happening all the time, on different levels. As work on the self goes deeper, one begins to gradually gain the confidence to accept that not having a strong foundation is ok... then there arises a preparedness and a willingness to stand under whatever life throws at you. Then there is victory, from the realization that finally there is a very real hope of subjugating inner fires of emotions and demons. For as long as the belief in the possibility of building a foundation is clung to, this matter of the pacification of emotional turmoils becomes very complex, because then there will be unnecessary layers added on to the process. If from the very beginning, one adopts the correct view of seeing things simply as they are, and be ok with change, then the complexities can well be avoided. The above is by no means an indication that one should simply wilt away with the sands of time. Practice and cultivation must continue with diligence - meditation practices must be kept up. But never make the assumption that these practices are anything more than what they are, which primarily are aimed at sharpening one's perceptions so as not to fall victim to delusion and false assumptions, the most serious being that there are guarantees in life, that somehow, there is a heaven waiting, or immortality of the body is achievable. I dont know for sure... perhaps it is, maybe not... all i know is that i can die at any moment, and nothing i have done, nothing i have accumulated, will matter at that point. Remaining aware of this every day, every moment if possible, is a very joyous exercise in appreciating life. Thru this, we can learn to become less petty, less agitated, and definitely find more satisfaction, openness and happiness in simple living, from one moment to the next. Each breath feels deep and precious. We become more mindful of our thoughts, speech and interactions with others. Each day is filled with immense gratitude, and we will see existence with new eyes. With this comes a kind of realization that we can indeed gain mastery over our deepest fears, fears being stuff which causes us to build alienating walls instead of bridges of hope and inspiration. Sorry for getting carried away here... i only meant to write a couple of lines. "Walking the spiritual path properly is a very subtle process; it is not something to jump into naively. There are numerous sidetracks which can lead to a distorted, ego-centered version of spirituality; we can deceive ourselves into thinking we are developing spiritually when instead we are reinforcing our egocentricity through spiritual techniques. This fundamental distortion may be referred to as spiritual materialism." - Chogyam Trungpa

:lol:

On second thoughts, its not different either.

Promise i wont derail a most interesting tennis match between Xabir and your good self... The above was merely a spontaneous, off the cuff response to Headless' statement. One thing though, i think creativity is only one aspect of compassion, so, in essence, its not one and the same. Ah, yes, this is veering off the side road, like you said, so i agree, enough word play. Lets just enjoy the space where this time of year seems to always bring. Blessings!

The above applies when compassion is viewed as a personal, cultivatable virtue. However, compassion has many levels. At the peak, its simply the force that re-animates the cycle of life, and robots are not exempted from the impersonal workings of the process; hence, it can be ascertained that compassion (as energy) is necessarily involved in the creation of robots. Its not what the robot has, its what goes into its creation. Same with humans. What can/do we really possess?