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Yes, i fully agree as it expresses the totality of my view in regards to you. You have pivoted all your identity on this so-called Short Path, of which you have devoted a lifetime of study. Those who are less firm in their steps may falter upon reading your mostly ridiculous assumptions and opinions - i am truly afraid they will begin to wonder if indeed there is such a quick fix to spiritual enlightenment as you proclaim. The funny thing is after you proclaim this Short Path that is so simple that others fail to recognize due to its simplicity, you proceed to lambast the reader with meaningless jargon and mind-numbing theories that really befuddles the mind, with all that 'light' talk and so on. A big part of Spirituality is really about the everyday stuff that many people are trying to understand and incorporate into their lives so that they may begin to find some level of fulfillment, or to alleviate confusion so that they may begin to see with a greater degree of clarity. Instead of honoring this and contributing towards this common objective, you choose to ignore such a real issue, and to add insult to injury, you further proclaim that everything that is associated with contemporary lineages are less than adequate to meet the needs of people who are seriously pursuing a spiritual path via such lineages and traditions. You have no idea what such utterances can do to undermine people's regard - its nothing short of disrespect, bordering on arrogance. Give me a good reason why such baffling ideas as you put forth repeatedly should not be pointed out. If you take offense when someone (and there happen to be a handful of posters who fall into this category of 'someone') calls your attention to the points you made which did not make any sense, you then proceed to insinuate that such others are blindly following the blind traditions etc (and whatever other labels you favor to attach on to them). I see you have a great God complex, and the message you always put out is that you know best - well, guess what? I am not buying. You are the very hindrance you speak of in the thread title.

Precisely. You took the words right out of my mouth.

You do not appear to be as silent as you wish to convince yourself of. You are free to form whatever opinions you want. I have no time to justify my posts to you, nor have i any wish to engage in silly arguments with someone who pops up on the odd occasion just to show off how astute your readings of people are. You have a bone of contention that seem to weigh heavily on your shoulders, for you seem to also be regurgitating the same old criticism whenever the opportunity presents itself. Its pretty obvious. Also, you need to know how to differentiate between disagreements, which is common, and attacks, which is more serious and causes rifts. Quoting sutras to back up what has been expressed as personal understandings and experiences are to ensure readers understand where to reference should they want to dig deeper. Its very helpful to some people - obviously you, being such a veteran, have no need for such references. This is understandable.

Ooo look who's decided to drive by and take pot shots (again). Another Buddhist veteran with scores of years of Vajrayana experience under his belt, passing judgements (again). I was not complaining. Merely making observations, like your good self. Plenty here do not agree with my views, as i do not also agree with plenty of views of others. So what? But at least i do go around on the pretense that others are somehow less fortunate due to being on a deviant path. I am specifically referencing certain fixations which i have seen in Vmarco's posts being repeated over and over, and decided to mention it - this is not being sarcastic, and neither was i sneering nor were my words tinged with scathing remarks. But if you choose to taint your views with bias, thats your prerogative. There are at least a dozen or so ideas which he has presented so far that is not in accord with the Dharma - but its difficult to discuss these because, he, like you, possesses tunnel vision, as aptly pointed out by Twinner. In fact, comparatively, i'd say Twinner has more understanding of Dharma than the 2 of you put together. You 2 are like the Laurel and Hardy of Buddhistic ideology.

Resorting to sly implications, Vmarco? Nice. If indeed there is ad hominem present, its in these words of yours. But i know you will not see it like it is, so its not much good to attempt to convince you otherwise. So the above statement implies we are all blind, and because you are the one who sees, we decide to do away with your seeing wisdom because we somehow feel threatened, lessened or soiled by your knowledge. You seem far removed from reality, Vmarco. You can do better than this, what with your immense enlightening experience accrued over so many decades. Yet, i have not seen any endorsements from anyone with whom you have attempted to engage in debate -oh yeah, i forgot, we are all blind and on a longer path, and thus naturally less evolved than your esteemed self. The fact that you have been enlightened for such a long time, and are still endowed with such patience as to engage with us blind dummies here on this forum shows immense magnanimity, so Thank you very much, i suppose. Not being sarcastic here.

Scathing remarks?? Lordy... you have just re-defined the word 'sensitive' for me. Nothing meaningful to discuss when all your posts revolves around endless regurgitations, is there? You claim wisdom, yet anyone who opposes what you say gets slapped with an 'ad hominem' label. Hello like.

? Short path, long path, high path, low path.... let it all go, Vmarco. There seem to be a lot of repetitive work going on in your mind, as exemplified by your posts. The path does not appear to be as short as you attempt to portray to others, at least its not evident from your words. A more honest review of your position might bring forth some progress, assuming that is what you still believe you are capable of. When you first started posting, i was impressed - i had thought maybe we have been missing something from our discussions, and you seem to be the link to make the picture more vibrant and complete, but after about 3 posts, my enthusiasm tapered off. Strangely enough, there are posters here who have been consistently contributing to the forum for years now, and they are still offering fresh perspectives, ideas and opinions despite the length of their stay. Quality posts time after time... perhaps i am hoping you will be able to take some inspiration from them, but then, i am also thinking that perhaps you will not allow your esteemed position to be tarnished by associating with lesser lights, as you are so fond of reminding readers frequently.

More 'freeing' words: "The view of the inner tantras, and particularly of Atiyoga, is the actual indivisibility of cause and result. While the outer tantras are more concerned with indivisibility than the sutric teachings, the inner tantric yanas are superior to the outer ones in this respect. Therefore, the sutric yanas are known as the yanas of causation, since the practitioners train in the path as the cause to attain the goal as the result. The tantric yanas are called the resultant yanas because by using the realization of primordial wisdom, which is the significance of empowerment and which is transmitted at the time of empowerment, tantrists perceive the world and beings as the Buddhas and Buddha-fields, and they develop and perfect the realization. Tantra perfects the result in a short time by using the state of the 3 Kayas as the path of training by profound skillful means. Tantra is a path of transformation of unenlightenment and defiling emotions as the Buddha-essence and Buddha-virtues. But this is not a transformation of something into something else, like iron into gold, as some recent scholars have understood; it is transforming, purifying, or perfecting something which is stained into its own pure state." - - Pema Ledrel Tsal (If ultimately causes and conditions cannot be transcended, such transformations would not be achievable.) According to Longchenpa: "The sutric teachings of Bodhisattvayana (or Mahayana) assert that (beings) possess the Buddha-essence (Tathagatagarbha). With the Buddha-essence as the seed and with training on the two accumulations, the accumulations of merits and primordial wisdom, as the conditions during numerous lives, the Buddha-essence will blossom, and (as a result) fully enlightened Buddhahood will be achieved. It is called the 'Yana of causation' since it asserts that cause and result are successive. In the tantric view (wherein cause and result are indivisible) the Buddha-essence is naturally present in all living beings with its virtues complete, like the sun with its lights, and that is the 'basis of purification'. The eight consciousnesses with appearance {percepts}, like clouds, which obscures the Buddha-essence, are the things 'to be purified'. Empowerments and meditation on the development and completion stages causing, as clouds are dispelled by air, the obscurations to be purified and light of virtues to shine forth, are the 'means of purification'. Thereby, the attainment of the absolute universal ground shining forth, as it is, like the sun, is the 'result of purification'. At that time, since there are no longer the previous defilements, although the names and habituations of the universal ground have been transformed (as Buddhahood and its virtues), in reality they manifest without differentiation or succession (meaning ultimately there are in fact no causes or conditions)." From the Hevajratantra: "Beings are the very Buddha (in their true nature), But their (nature) is obscured by adventitious obscurations. When the obscurations are cleansed, they themselves are the very Buddha."

Nice reminder. Thanks for the effort Xabir. _/\_

Now you are sounding ass-like. No offense. Although i'm still inclined to agree with most of what you posit, if that's any consolation.

Not wanting to sound ass-like, but word for word count, between mine and yours in this thread, you are still waay ahead.

Just to stress home a point: Both sutric and tantric traditions have the same goal of final enlightenment, the state of fully perfected enlightenment. (However the tantra) is distinctive for superior means of attaining (that goal). They are the superiority of view free from ignorance, the superiority of meditation with many skillful means, the superiority of activities of no hardship, and the person of sharp intellect... The Characteristic Causation (sutric) Yana ascertains that (i) the ultimate nature, the absolute truth (is) free from elaborations of eight extremes, but it does not realize the nature of the union of the ultimate sphere and primordial wisdom, as it is. (Tantra,) having dispelled (that ignorance), realizes the nature of the union of the ultimate sphere and primordial wisdom - so tantra is not ignorant of the view of the ultimate nature. (ii) The Characteristic Causation Yana ascertains phenomena, the things of relative truth, as the nature of interdependent arising like a magical apparition (maya), but it is ignorant because of not yet having ascertained phenomena as the Buddha-bodies and primordial wisdoms, (but having ascertained them as just) impure like magical apparitions. Vajrayana tantra ascertains (that all are): the play of the Buddha-bodies and primordial wisdoms, the meaning of non-duality of the ultimate sphere and primordial wisdom, the non-duality of the two truths and the supreme ultimate body. So tantra is superior in being free from ignorance. The contemplations of tantra is superior because of two stages: the skillful means of the development stage and the wisdom of the perfection stage. In the Characteristic Causation Yana there is no path to attain enlightenment which does not abandon the object of desire, whereas in tantra, having taken the object of desire, without abandoning, as the path (of training) which protects the mind-consciousness easily and blissfully, one becomes able to attain the state of Vajradhara in this very lifetime with this single body. - - Pema Ledrel Tsal Also, this, from Nagarjuna: "We state that whatever is dependent arising, that is emptiness. This is dependent upon convention. That itself is the middle path." Dependent arising explains all the aspects of the relative world, for it details the process of causation, hence the ontology of the world. Emptiness is the only possible description of ultimate truth, for it demonstrates relativity and provides a sort of anti-theory on which the rational faculty can focus. "The whole of Nagarjuna's philosophy is dependent on convention, for it all presupposes the perception of everyday things and their phenomenal reality. It is vital that one following his philosophy understand that it, every bit as much as the things it describes, is relative. Dependent Arising and Emptiness are relative to each other, and both are relative to the perceived world. They thus constitute the middle path. One must remember Dependent Arising would be no more proper a description of ultimate truth than Emptiness, and vice versa, else either materialism or nihilism would result. Likewise, one must find a middle ground between theorizing, and refraining from doing so, as demonstrated by the Buddha on certain occasions." (anonymous comment) From the Visudhimagga: Misery only does exist, none miserable, No doer is there; Nothing save the deed is found. Nirvana is, but not the man who seeks it. The Path exists, but not the traveler on it.

Not exactly. According to the 12 links, causes and conditions arise due to ignorance. This 12 links is reversible, ending in eradication/extinction of ignorance, whereby causes and conditions cease. End of karmic cycles leading to cessation of suffering, leading to no birth no death. If causes and conditions are unendable, death and rebirth cannot be transcended.

You appear to have hit a blockage - Emptiness from any perspective, pre- or post-12th century, can never be a substance unseen or seen. Moreover, it is cannot be a division. As Seth had repeatedly said, in very simple terms, its the basis of things - the underlying nature of phenomena. Without this basis, the movements of arising and cessation cannot occur, which then implies permanence, which then means the basic causes of suffering cannot be transcended, and this completely negates the very foundation of Buddhist thought. Moreover, the cessation of conflicting dualism (root cause of suffering) does not arise from seeing dependent origination. It arises from contemplating repeatedly the futility of emotional attachments that give rise to clinging and aversions.

Sorry to barge in H.E. - May i suggest you give the commentary on the Heart Sutra (linked below) a careful read. Its the best commentary I have ever come across that brings much clarity to understanding exactly what the Sutra teaches. Perhaps Serene Blue and others will also find some inspiration from this: http://www.westernchanfellowship.org/heart-sutra-commentary.html

Serene Blue.... Bewtiful works of art! Really creative!

This Tara mantra is very powerful: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhsgkM0jG28&feature=channel_video_title

I wonder ooo dat Always fun to read stuff from you... Like hiking for miles, then suddenly coming upon a little brook, with sparklingly clean pools and no bear poo in sight... :lol: I pray dem bears leave this thread alone too!!

Yes you are right, Scotty. There are implications of this in TCM. Apparently 'wind' can enter the body via the gross and subtle openings and orifices, besides the usual nasal/oral passages. Even icy cold drinks are to be avoided if at all possible, especially taboo after working out. Apparently, when ingested, the body becomes like a sponge soaking up external wind. I wonder if there is more harm being done in the long run to those who frequently ingest cold beers other than simple alcohol-related complications. Just a thought. (i just read some of the posts above this... there seem to be a misunderstanding about Wind. Nothing wrong with being exposed to wind. Just at certain times and under varying conditions one ought to take precautions. For example, most Asian and Chinese people do not have sex with the fan blowing on the bodies... Other than this, they have no aversion to having a fan or two switched on around the house to ward off humidity.)

Yes, son, i hear your prayers... Now, tell me, how i can be of help? :lol: (Enlightenment is nothing.... Delusion is the greatest wonder! - words of Jed McKenna.) I think we both agree this much?

Do you ever notice how the mind quiets down when its absolutely confused? If it has not quiet down, it means you still have some way to go yet.... carry on!

Maybe he lost his matches? (sorry bad joke... )

Yeah, its an example of weaving stories alright. Sometimes it could be fun when there is no neuroticism attached to the stories. Great nations and sensitive poems, besides many other worthy quests were born out of story-telling, and themselves the cause of even more adventurous pursuits. You do know how to have a fun discussion, i trust? Not all exchanges between 2 or more people need to be construed as attempts to enmesh a 'support group' as you subtly alluded to... You, too, be well.

SO BE IT!! Not denying any of the points you raised at all. I grew up with animals, and often learn stuff from them. Dogs are my thing - have two presently - nicknamed Long Ears (she's a basset hound haha) and Gremlin (a bull terrier pup who sure looks like one). The point i was making is that animals do not weave stories in their mind like humans tend to. They simply act according to stimulus. This does not mean they have the same emotional fabric like humans do. Not saying its wrong to have it, its just that humans have this unenlightened potential to, let me use a metaphor here, hoard a lot of emotional clutter. Some do tend to make this a habit, going as far as to say it makes them feel alive and useful. Animals do not have such tendencies. Because humans have this potential to clutter the mind, they also have a greater potential for decluttering it - nature is fair like that. But this should not equate to purposefully choking oneself just to appreciate what it means to breathe enthusiastically! Unfortunately, many people unknowingly do this. Animals have no such trickery in their thought processes. They may have the necessary intelligence to enhance the satisfaction of their needs, which is their prime motive, but comparatively, humans are never satisfied - hence the rise of suffering!

one of the rare times i disagree with you, VJ. We do not really want to create a problem just so to feel smarter by solving the problem, or create conditions where there is none, just to attain freedom from such. I see concepts as those things which causes a sense of separation. In effect, there is no duality. The human mind, conditioned by grasping and aversion, creates the possibilities for such desires to arise. Even though animals are subject to grasping and aversion, the emotional attachments are absent. They may go after a toy, or another weaker animal, or jump with fright, but they have no concept of loss, followed by the subsequent emotional response to loss, like humans do. Nothing inherently wrong with losing someone, or something, but its the quality of emotional responses that determine one's level of appropriating corrective right thoughts, feelings and actions or incorrect wrong reactions arising from wrong view.