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"Beyond No-self" - - excerpted from HHDL's book The Middle Way - - courtesy of Buddhadharma magazine. http://archive.thebuddhadharma.com/issues/2009/summer/noself.php

You are picturing two containers - one muddied and the other clear... would this create an imagined split, i wonder. There is always only one perpetually clear state, like there is one sky. What specialized state? Its about being mindfully aware and settling thoughts into their own nature, which is clear, yet vivid. Its not a separate state, or a more evolved state. Discursive thoughts arise and with it arises dualistic, deluded mind. As these thoughts settle, ordinary awareness does not diminish with the settling, it becomes more apparent. This apparent awareness is your true nature. Not something that wasn't there to begin with. One does not need to 'grow' it - meditative exercises re-connects the being to this intrinsic pure Mind where its grasping nature gradually settles back into its own luminous ground, which is fundamentally empty, yet cognizant. (remember the onion? Peeling it to its core reveals what?) The analogy of a recovering amnesiac may ring a bell here. Thru meditation, one re-familiarizes with one's original Mind beyond pure or impure, like the sky.

Good luck! I think any sort of Revolution is wonderful. Nothing unclutters more effectively than radical lifestyle shifts. My choice of sleeping surface varies according to demands. Never have a problem falling asleep, no matter the surface. On couches, on rocks, on garden swings, even sitting upright sometimes... Had a short bout of back ache recently when i pulled a muscle. Excruciatingly painful and immobilizing. Combination of massage, both physical and sound, sporadically light stretching with the addition of sleeping on a light duvet thrown on the carpeted floor sorted the issue within a week.

This insinuation is downright insulting to those who are of mixed ethnicity. Reminds me of that guy who nearly succeeded in creating a 'superior' race of people - no need to name names. Each time such remarks appear, the sky darkens in this part of the world.

Ah! This is clearer to me now... thanks you. So basically you are referring to the dangers of getting stuck, and you have seen that RT has this potential of making others stuck, and so you are here to highlight the possible pitfalls. Thats great. Its very kind to look out for your fellow bums.

Not wanting to speak for Seth, but i think the difference for him is that his life, since the realization, has taken on a renewed understanding/insight into what it means to relate with others and himself in a more present manner - in other words he has begun to stop tripping over him 'self' each time he interacts with his routines and with other people. This is why Seth has cautioned others not to take this sort of investigations lightly. Many, many people (countless) who make the effort to get 'no mind' transmission fail to back up their experience with the right work/practice, hence the tendency to remain in the exact the manner as what you have described above - hanging around the Void all day doing nothing - this is called 'spacing out' or 'tripping'. Thinking they have attained to the highest state possible, they go around annoying fellow practitioners with their overbearing and snobbish behavior, or some even think they are no longer answerable to their own path, and to other people. They become arrogant, and spit on the insights that got them where they wanted to go. Such attitudes surely have no legs to stand on, and one will face the consequences, sooner than later. From where i stand, i can see Seth has a very solid foundation, and will not fall into this sort of dingbat-like state as you have ascribed to him.

Well, Otis referenced body with self, which is only partly accurate. And no, i do not. If there is no self, who stays? Who goes? What do you call a being who neither comes from anywhere nor is going/gone anywhere?

Yup. (except for the last line of course)

Well said, GiH. Inverting habits, transforming dross into gold. Relatively speaking, dross is needed for the alchemist to make gold. Ultimately, nothing is gained, nothing is lost. Or, everything is gained (gold) and everything is lost (dross).

Heartfelt condolences, Ben. Sorry to hear of your loss. Your granny is very fortunate to have a grandson who cherish her, even after passing on. Its a sign that she had accumulated some positive merits in her life. Such merits are what she will be carrying with her into the next phase. Not in the physical sense, naturally, but in the sense of spirit/subtle consciousness. Even though physically her 'self' is gone, her merits gained while alive still has enough energy to compel and move you to feel for her and hold her with love. And i thank you, and your granny too, for by sharing this news tainted with bittersweet energy, you have compelled me not to ignore that our actions and thoughts have far-reaching consequences. So in this sense, more merit will go to both you and your granny. You have dignified the life of your grandmother - very noble indeed. My prayers are with you and your family.

Hello K, I have no advice to offer you... sorry. All i want to do is share an excerpt (that i happen to resonate with) from a book by Alan Watts, and to tell you that i value your presence here on the forum. "Wisdom does not consist in arriving at a particular place, and no one need imagine that it is necessarily obtained by climbing a ladder whose rungs are the successive stages of psychological experiences. That ladder has no end, and the entrance to enlightenment, wisdom, or spiritual freedom may be found on any one of its rungs. If you discover it, it does not mean you will not have to keep on climbing the ladder; you need to go on climbing just as you need to go on living. But enlightenment is found by fully accepting the place where you stand now. Modern man finds himself in the stage of human evolution where there is maximum division between his ego and the universe; for him, (the beginning of) enlightenment is the complete acceptance of this division. Psychological techniques may fail because people do not accept fully the various stages involved; they accept them with the sole object of reaching a certain goal - in such circumstances they may indeed reach that state, but without finding what they truly desire inwardly. As a result, some people who imagine they have completed that phase of psychological work are often as unhappy as ever. Mere exploration of the unconscious is no road to wisdom, for a fool may learn much and experience much but still be a fool. He becomes wise only when he has the humility to let himself be free to be a fool. As Chuang Tzu said, "He who knows he is a fool is not a great fool". The way of acceptance and spiritual freedom is found not by going somewhere, but in going, and the stage where its happiness can be known is now, at this very moment, at the very place where you happen to stand. It is in accepting fully your state as it is now, not in trying to force yourself into some other state, which, out of pride, you imagine to be a superior and more advanced state. It is not a question of whether your present state is good or bad, neurotic or normal, elementary or advanced; it is a question of what it is. The point is not to accept it in order to pass on to a 'higher' state, but to accept because this acceptance in itself IS the higher state, if such it may be called." (A. Watts) Hope the above in some way could sparkle a small 'aha' moment for you. Wishing you well always.

Just what i was thinking! Ralis is the 'been there done that' man in my mind! His profound View cannot be expressed by words, so others can remain in doubt for all he cares. Why even bother to come on the forum, if that's the case.

In the DL's tradition, as is Buddhism in general, the emphasis has always been on awareness - awareness of the relative, in which an "I" can be found, and awareness of the absolute, where "I" can be deconstructed if one so chooses. Both can be beneficial, depending on one's disposition. Each complements the other when the right View and choices are put in place.

From Jigmed Lingpa (a 'Treasure Revealer' or Terton of great significance in the Nyingma Tradition) - - In this greater vehicle, in the meditation of mengagde, the realization of the essence of the mind itself, which from primordial time is present as the great liberation, is called intrinsic awareness (Rig-Pa). By maintaining the continuity of that realized awareness, one attains enlightenment by force. For a person who is still on the ordinary path of training, when he sees a mountain, in the first moment it is unavoidable not to have the thought, "this is a mountain", but in the second moment, because of the (on-going) *perfection of the power of the mind and mental events which analyze the nature of the mountain, the concept of mountain disappear without any trace. At that time, although the appearance of the mountain (in the mind) has not ceased, one will gain experience in dwelling in the ultimate nature, in which there is no apprehension of (the appearance of the mountain). Having purified all the phenomenal existents as the simultaneous liberation-at-arising, to unify the appearances and mind is the unerring Dzogpa Chenpo. *Perfection refers to the practice of recognizing, stabilizing and resting in pristine awareness without remainder.

It appears you are studying yourself very well, Serene Blue. That's great. For insights to reveal themselves, concentrated effort to see our actions, thoughts and stuff is very helpful. One of the tenets of the Eightfold Path says in order to cultivate Samadhi, one needs Right Concentration. Right Concentration is partly cultivated by the study and contemplation of relevant texts. We ought not to fool ourselves into thinking that we are so realized that we can sever our relationship with the relevant texts and teachings. Even a Geshe (A Tibetan Doctor of Philosophy), which takes about 20 years to achieve full qualification, has to continue to study texts each day. What Ralis talks about is to constantly remain in a non-localized absorptive state, which is wonderful, and can lead to a lot of blissful experiences. But we cannot remain there all the time, can we? There's wood to be chopped and water to be carried! The down side of this sort of absorption is that we can be trapped by the bliss and become overly spacey and expansive, and could neglect to integrate the spiritual with the mundane. Taken to extreme, people who choose this way of being can become arrogant and dismissive. FInding a balance is the way to do it, which is the reason why its called Heart-Mind - it needs to unite both the heart and the mind to achieve the desired results. Heart implies maintaining an expansive, bliss-like awareness to allow things to be, and Mind implies looking deeply into why things are. Harmonizing these two aspects is more fulfilling than just having a preference for one over the other. The solution is to find your own pace. Balance resting in passive, non-conceptual, non-local meditation with active, investigative contemplative practices. And don't you worry if unable to sit for long periods. Actually, its better to sit for short periods (how short depends on the individual) over the course of a day, rather than doing it at a stretch. Intervals allow for space to practice and really absorb what we learn in the meditations. Personally, i do on average 3 half-hour sittings in the daytime, maybe 4 at most, and at night, when the house/pets settle down, i sometimes do two 1 hour sessions with an hour break between. Sometimes though i'd just say to heck with it... preferring to watch TV or play some solo scrabble instead. Either way, try to release expectations. I know, everyone says this... but there really isn't any magic formula. Just remember not to be too hard on yourself. Whatever comes up, impatience and other self-defeating tendencies... just allow them to rise and subside on their own. You can do this when you keep to mindful awareness of neither grasping nor averting anything that comes to the surface. All the best to your practice! PS - May i recommend a good book which i know you will enjoy (if you haven't already read it) : Pure Heart, Enlightened Mind - The Life and Letters of an Irish Zen Saint by Maura O'Halloran. Perfect for clarifying some of your thoughts. http://www.wisdompubs.org/Pages/display.lasso?-KeyValue=32935&-Token.Action=ℑ=1

Wow... I am so happy for you, Seth... really, really pleased you are clearing so much stuff. It means a lot to hear of your realization, so thank you for sharing.

According to Longchenpa... "All phenomena are embraced within a single self-knowing awareness. Even though they arise as a single totality of samsara and nirvana, the phenomena of the world of appearances and possibilities - limitless, boundless - arise from basic space. Therefore, they are subsumed within basic space from which the first arise." Basically, contemplative practice reveals that essentially Mind is already beyond pure and impure. Instead of resting in the suchness of things, where even Mind cannot be found, the generally afflictive tendencies arise in a person to identify with moments of appearances and possibilities. Such appearances and possibilities do not and can not arise if things possessed a permanent nature. It is the voidness of permanence that allows the senses to capture the arising and ceasing of things. If we identify such arisings and cessations to be mind, delusional and dualistic thoughts of separateness perpetuate and gives rise to further confusion - from subtle to gross. On the other hand, if we simply rest in the voidness nature of Mind, the senses, while still sensing, does not capture anything, does not bind anything, does not cling to anything. In this, even ignorance does not need to be abandoned, nor freedom from it sought, since notions of both have been priorly liberated from the roots being cut. Every thing is, and every thing is not, at this time, becomes irrelevant. As Tilopa said to Naropa, "Appearances do not bind. Attachments and cravings do. " My current meditation practice.

haha... thanks. Very informational, Mahberry. That thing about walking straight on without turning to look behind... i remember as a kid growing up being forewarned about it. Still practicing this - afraid some silly notions simply refuse to fade with time.

Sorry mate.

If we can learn to instantaneously liberate thoughts as they arise, there is no continuum. One who can do this breaks from the 12 causal links. Ignorance is cut at the roots. With the roots cut, no further seeds can be produced. What sort of Mind would one have when one has thus attained? Rigpa. One sees oneself as a mirror, and cease all identification with the reflections. Ignorance is that which gives birth to seeing 'moments' and perpetuates the 12 links ( which then causes the perception of separation/dualistic notions, which then causes responses, which then causes discrimination, which is followed by emotional clinging and aversion etc) Delusional thoughts arise when we mistake the reflections for reality, not realizing that fundamentally these reflections cannot be separated from the mirror. When this becomes a stable knowing to be the actual and real state of how things are already perfected even prior to the arising of a single thought, then all the perpetuations of dualistic tendencies will be abandoned the moment its seen thru mindful awareness. That is the ending of 'moments'. That is also the ending of the causal chain of Interdependent Origination and Cessation. No birth no death. Existence as such becomes known as neither coming nor going. Real thusness. Sorry for the interruption, gentlemen.

Isnt that a metaphor that the Chinese use when something backfires or when some scheme goes havoc? Its such a common usage in the Far East. I actually forgot the term until you brought it up. I think it also refers to men who overdose on nutritious herbal essences for the sake of 'upping' their virility. I could be wrong...

If you say so.

Yeah, you're right. No point going further. I can see you have no wish to engage in any meaningful dialogue, and never have, come to think of it.

You're very kind, VJ. Thank you. I am not wise... not sagely, and have no lofty ideals. But i do take Buddha's fundamental encouragement in the form of the Noble Eightfold Path quite literally, having investigated and found it just as relevant today as it did years ago when i was very much an ego-driven idiot and rebel without a cause. In short, when i first began applying the prescribed path taught by Buddha, it was reflected against real-time, very present anguished states and mental suffering. The Eightfold Path reveals the following breakdown: 1) Right View and Right Intention leads to and fulfills wisdom. 2) Right Speech, Right Action, Right Livelihood leads to and fulfills virtue and ethical conduct. Right Mindfulness and Right Concentration leads to and fulfills both (1) and (2).

Its not that the teachings are very mental, Ralis. Its because you have an aversion to certain deep-held ideas which happens to clash with your present reality. One who has attained will help others to attain at their own level, not at, say, your own high realizational level. This is why the emphasis is on the unity of wisdom and method, View and practice, Path and Fruit, absolute and relative, Wisdom and Compassion - timing is key. One who keeps the View but discards method will tend to be spacey and floaty, attached to bliss-states and become arrogant, while one who emphasize Path/Methods/Teachings without recognizing View has diminished motivation, tend to be envious of those who enjoy blissful trips, and could lose zeal, zest and eventually lose heart as well. Best is to find a balanced, well-defined combination of both. Before direct experience, work needs doing. After direct experience, Work does itself. Its still work(practice).