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Hi SereneBlue, The heartmind (or Heart Essence of Enlightened Mind) is in fact Bodhicitta itself. Bodhicitta has two aspects: Relative and absolute/ultimate. In the relative sense, its like a set of practice or code of conduct for aspiring Bodhisattvas, like your good self, for example. _/\_ By familiarizing with this code, one plays out the role of a bodhisattva - this includes actively integrating one's current life with awareness, mindfully looking for opportune moments to deepen the familiarization more and more, thru practice of contemplation, reflection, meditation, visualizations, etc etc... with the aim of carrying the idea of bodhisattvaship beyond the level of mere conceptualization, so to speak. Once the process of familiarization becomes less and less dependent on its conceptual platform, glimpses of spontaneous arising of Enlightened Mind (where all reference points dissolves) gradually becomes clearer and more blissful - as this letting-go gets more natural and genuine faith develop, old habitual reactionary impulses and afflictive tendencies falls away bit by bit, and in their place a new set of transformed virtues takes over. Then the relative map or code can be put aside as simply a reference guide. This is the onset of Absolute Bodhicitta, and as mentioned in the other post, this occurs by degrees. As clarity sharpens, you will begin to experience the fruits of the Bodhisattva way. Analogy: Relative bodhicitta is like getting all excited by the mere thought of travelling to one's favored holiday destination, and absolute bodhicitta is the act of travelling itself. Upon arrival, you will know you have arrived - similarly, you will know without doubt, as the generation stages of practice becomes stable, when the heartmind is manifesting. So its like at the beginning stages, we try to become more aware and find opportunities to practice relative levels of compassion, and then, in the latter stages one begins to drop the awareness and the conscious looking, whereby Compassion becomes spontaneously manifested and by that time all the old awkwardness of role-playing to become a bodhisattva stops. Two links here for further reference and clarity: http://www.shantideva.net/guide_ch1.htm A fairly in-depth commentary by HHDL on the various aspects of cultivating Bodhicitta - http://www.bodhicitta.net/HHDL%20Bodicaryavatara%20Teachings.htm Lovely chant to coincide with this commentary: Best wishes to all who aspires to Equanimous Compassion. May all beings enjoy the bliss of liberation. (apologies for veering away from topic. Especially to 3Bob. I try not to make fanatical assertions here, but sometimes i am not strong enough, so please be patient... i am learning yet.)

You're very welcome, 3Bob I like the way you expressed it above. Thanks!

Hey GiH/Everyone.... when you have time, check these 3 videos out: An enquiry into 'What is the Infinite'? I think you might enjoy them.

As one goes deeper into the 'realizations', it becomes clearer and clearer that compassion is more than mere altruistic feeling of wanting to ease the suffering of other beings. Those who have reached such deeper states proclaim that Compassion is the primordial power (residing as a seed potential) within every single being to be liberated... like a dormant desire. Most people do not have the capacity nor insight to recognize this, hence such needs to be free become expressed as wishes for personal happiness, to be free of sorrow and pains, to have basic needs met, to always have companionship, good food, shelter, long life, etc. So when people speak of Buddhas having equally great, tireless Compassion for all beings, they are speaking of such Beings who recognize how deep it is that sentient beings want to be free (from craving), and this then becomes a sort of overwhelming motivation (a basis) to germinate this very seed so that all those who come to them (as in seeking refuge) will experience a rain of blessings to enable the fruition of their own buddha potential. This is one of the reasons why true teachers of the Dharma have a sense of immense urgency to help anyone who seek them, and they can do this with great zeal and deep conviction, due to having generated ultimate Bodhicitta (which is union with Avalokit). Since such masters no longer see themselves as separate from the great Avalokit, as in they have already embodied all the qualities of equanimous Compassion as symbolically represented by Maha Bodhisattva Avalokiteshvara. When they teach those who have taken refuge, the students sometimes report that they feel as if a real Buddha was in their midst, and the whole atmosphere becomes a sort of resplendent buddha field! A lot of times Rainbows would manifest in the sky to coincide with the appearance of these great masters. Of course this (Bodhicitta) is realized in degrees, even with teachers, so some of them can maybe influence a small group of people, because their Bodhicitta is not in full bloom yet, and then there are great masters with full-blown Bodhicitta who can influence masses of people, and continue to do so even after they have died. This explains why some masters possess immense presence, and just being with them can be so awe-inspiring, while others seem to struggle just to keep an interested audience. Younglings like us only get glimpses of this Bodhicitta occasionally, hence we are not yet able to transfer the kind of blessings on a large scale, so we start with ourselves first of all, we practice to connect with this latent potential to spark it to life, so to speak.

you're fun! You have succeeded in manifesting a chuckle in me!

Me, sage? :lol: Far from it. You may be, but i am as close to being a sage as the North is to the South. (or is that East to West?) A an old roach perhaps might be an apter term, but thanks for the lavish praise, nonetheless. I am afraid my knees will buckle under the term's weightiness.

But Ralis is the one who prods others towards correct English usage, otherwise i would not have bothered. I was playing Tetris anyways.

Well, it does seem like quibbling is what you love, so i thought why not indulge your fav hobby for a while, but since you're not keen, don't matter. But 'insure' within the context of that particular post is incorrect because 'insure' suggests doing something whereby the probabilities of damage can be reduced by degrees. This ought to be obvious to one as particular as your esteemed self.

The correct word is 'Ensure'. Google 'Insure' and and one finds a list of insurance-related sites.

We all die and reincarnate each single moment to the next. Your context here about keeping afloat is all about sensationalizing things, as per your usual style, Ralis. By the way, your word usage 'insure' is wrong. Don't be going around asking others to write flawlessly.

This is where lineage is such a core thing. Not to mention the 'hidden' transmissions. And this is not exclusive to Buddhism either. Every thing in life that has the potential to teach and transcend one's wisdom-mind is a hidden treasure. 'Hidden' here does not mean secret. It just means yet-to-be. Someone teaches something, say algebra, for example. He is an authority on the subject. But when you are in pre-school, algebra is not in the curriculum, so his authority has no bearing whatsoever for you. When the time is ripe, and you are old enough to be taught algebra, who knows, maybe you get into this guy's class. Then his authority becomes relevant. Otherwise it cannot be. Its not even worth pondering before a need is found. Same with spiritual authority. Its about what you connect with. People here speak of heavenly sages and celestial beings all the time. Essentially a similar concept is at play. Keyword is 'play'. No need to grasp at anything or anyone. Respect, yes, but no grasping. edit: The above is how its seen in the East anyway. In the West, there seems to be much aversion to that word. Its pragmatic potentiality appears to have been eroded somewhat. I could be wrong.

mee tooo.

The nature of the enlightened mind, the embodiment of all is: (by Longchen Rabjam) Not clarity, as it transcends all the phenomena of clarity, Not emptiness, as it transcends all the phenomena of emptiness, Not existence, as there are no inherent things and characteristics, Not non-existence, as it pervades all of Samsara and Nirvana, primordial ultimate sphere, spontaneous equalness; Not partiality, bias, foundation, root, or things, And no discontinuity. So it is, the expanse of enlightened Intrinsic Awareness.

It sounds as if this Roshi had Taoist parents.

Sometimes those who make it their purpose to eradicate fanaticism may also become mysteriously fanatical in their purpose to end fanaticism... Life is strange like that.

Hey that's coool! Its nice to remain in clear light free of obstructive compounds!

Yes. I think in essence the Buddha did say all is okay. Problem is hardly anyone could see that. Hence the Dharma was expounded. For those 'whose eyes were thick with dust'.

The funny thing is only samsarins sense the difference. Upon awakening, where is the difference between an arhat and a samsarin? Who sees this difference?

Yes, in essence we are in agreement here, Steve. Except what many see as trappings only see what they want/chooses to see, or are able to see, for that matter. There are many subtleties behind all the rituals. Each one has its own specific gross, subtle and hidden purpose. Looking from the outside in, an observer would be hard pressed to understand the symbols involved. However, i admit that ultimately these need not be necessary unless one is flexible and astute enough to work at them without being blinded by the glitz. Surely, keeping to the simpler practices can be just as helpful towards spiritual work. I have been a keen learner of J.K.'s works and agree that his recommendations are very practical indeed. (Edit to add) Presently reading one of my girlfriend's books titled Beyond Words - Dzogchen Made Simple - an interesting quote popped up just as i started re-reading it after i finished replying to you. From Chogyal Namkhai Norbu -- "The essence is within yourself, and you must not be conditioned by externals, by books or by any system... Dzogchen practitioners must be aware and free and able to use everything, control everything, without being conditioned by the teachings or by externals." How apt, i thought.

I am too old now, 3Bob... all my 'fire' for debate has been extinguished. If what i said had been found offensive, please accept my apologies. This is a fairly liberal discussion site which tries to promote topics of cultivation, both spiritual and mundane. Although Tao by name, its great that a wide range of practices/topics get discussed here, which is basically comforting to know because one of the key essence of the study of Tao is its emphasis on developing a fluid and encompassing nature. I think what Dainin mentioned above is very practical... We can choose what we want to read, or ignore that which we find bland and irrelevant. Since this freedom has been equally endowed to all who visit here, there really are no grounds to proclaim fanaticism. I am sure it can be assumed that everyone understands the meaning of the term. Its a harsh label, and does not promote goodwill. Moreover, fanatical indoctrination can only be such if and when the will of an individual or a group have been compromised - and this can hardly be achieved over the net, if such was indeed the initial desire of whoever it is you think is guilty of it. Best to you, kind friend.

In my opinion, Steve... I agree with the first sentence. However, i doubt the manner in which the Bardo states have been investigated, expounded and validated by the various lineages in Tibet, including the Bons, can be labelled dogmatic in the least. After all, the Bardo states are not some occurrences restricted to after-death events, as in life, each moment transitioning to the next is as much a Bardo as the greater, more profound crossing-overs. Therefore, in Buddhism, or at least in Tibetan Buddhism, there is as much, if not more encouragement to investigate the Bardos of living as there are in the Bardos of dying and after death. Upon deeper introspection, isnt it true that we have to learn to die to each moment in order to fully live the next? Perhaps its when one is unable to fully understand or accept this simple truth that karmic baggage gets accumulated. One way to familiarize with this is thru gaining awareness during the Bardo of waking/dream transition. From Chogyal Namkhai Norbu: "When one falls asleep, one becomes disengaged from the karmic traces of the material body, the karmic traces of vision, and the karmic traces of mental functioning. These karmic traces, during the waking state, manifests as one's material body, the external appearances one perceives, and the functioning of one's mind respectively. Why do we speak of being disengaged? From one's falling asleep right up to the moment when dreams begin, there is no functioning of the mind and one finds oneself in the real condition of existence. In this, one will experience to a certain degree a merging with what is called the natural clear light (intrinsic illumination and liberation of 'self' attachment)." Such is what has been taught by the great scholars across all the different lineages - we, however, should not accept this on blind faith. We can find out, or not, if this is actually the case. Buddhist doctrinal teachings only become dogma for those who are too lazy, too blind or too headstrong to look deeper and inquire into their efficacy (or not). When the basis of the path is one where self-inquiry forms the crux of the Teaching, it becomes doubtful if one can actually voice disingenuity. After all, the Buddha did encourage his 'followers' to doubt until they have investigated fully his words. And this way of self-inquiry and promoting experiential insights have been the norm since. Which explains why threads of this nature, accusations of buddhist fanaticism, makes no sense. Looks like it was started as a deliberate attempt to cause some sort of schism. A grave error, indeed. Namaste.

Thanks Steve. The next time i get to a buddhist bookshop i will check the book out. Actually i think its more than mere dogmatism... Buddhists take the death/transitional process rather seriously. One would hope others do too.

Its sad when people have to die suddenly, and without any buffer to make the transition less traumatic than it already is. Many do in fact die this way, and when you see the faces of those who met with sudden, violent deaths and do a comparison with those who have generated the merits to pass on within an integrated, reassuring surrounding, you will see the difference in both contexts. Naturally, on a more ultimate level, we all leave the physical plane alone. That is only one side of the deal. With the right support, it gets 'easier' upon entering the other side. I can recommend a very insightful book here if you are interested to explore the death process further - The Illustrated Tibetan Book of the Dead by Stephen Hodge and Martin Boord. http://www.amazon.com/Illustrated-Tibetan-Book-Dead-Reference/dp/0806964316 A handy reference for those who want to go prepared. (no pun intended).

Interesting indeed.

O... one more question: Could you please give a small elaboration on what is meant by 'never the same again...' ? Thanks, bro