Kali Yuga

I think all of you guys except for Sloppy are talking out of your asses. Who are you going to believe? Deanty? Verdesi? Some fraudulent "antichrist training manual" that Drew is posting out of? None of us here have any real information regarding mo pai whatsoever. And the few things that we do have seem to be from people who all have their own biases, their own "gimmick", their own desires and beliefs that twist everything around. Andreas called himself "Sifu" without even becoming a 4th level. Kostas says he has "extraordinary abilities" and sells a book. Verdesi and Sean wanted all your cold hard cash. Jim's a holy roller who insists on his own teacher being involved with "demons". You're telling me all the things that everyone has said about this is 100% real? How many people have died doing this? Do you know any? Who said so? Are they 100% infallible? Have they asked for your money? Can anyone prove anything here? Medical records? Obituary articles? Pictures with John? You see, everyone here is just spouting out stuff that they heard from someone else, who also "heard" from someone else. Remember that game where there is a line of people, and the goal of the game is to relay a message from one end to the other without distorting in the least the original message? Know how hard that game is? This is whats happening here. No one here knows anything and is capable of making any judgment on anything here whatsoever. Everybody thinks they know something. None of us are mopai students of John I am willing to bet. None of us here have talked with John personally. And people are going to make judgment calls on John, or Jim, or some theoretical spirit? please people, you're not involved in this thing in the slightest, you only think you are. You are not in the slightest involved with the real student to master relationship that "being involved" requires. If you want to make a judgment call on anything, then learn your facts first. Go to Indonesia and find John if you really need answers. That is the only real way to cut through the BS and get down to the real nitty gritty. Because I guarantee you unless you talk to John, you don't know squat.

I would like to mention that in the Secret of the Golden Flower method reconstructed by J.J. Semple, he describes the first points of the practice as meditating and slowing down the breath (and thereby the consciousness). Somewhere along this point of continually slowing down the breath and enhancing awareness, a certain "flow" will be perceived within the dantien. JJ Semple emphasizes that once one person starts to feel and perceive this flow, one must use one's intention to change the rotation of the energy center to induce it to rotate towards the opposite direction to induce awakening of the energy dormant there. I find this very interesting as it is supposed to be the precursor to a sensation of an "eggshell breaking" at your sacrum and the activation of one's kundalini. It may not be exactly relevant to the discussion, yet it is an interesting coincidence nonetheless and his books are interesting reads.

I want to know the answers to 2 specific questions which only Kosta is capable of answering. 1.What is the nature of your disbandment why John Chang and you did not get along? Jim McMillan, also former student of Chang, has told me that John refused to teach him any further due to the "Headmaster Spirit" being angry there being foreigners in the school? Is this relevant in your case? What is the real reason why you are a "former" student of Chang and not a "current" student pursuing fusion and beyond? As anyone on this forum would give their left gonad to be a lifelong student of that man. 2.As to your knowledge, has there ever been any Indonesian to ever complete the base training of mopai to the point of "Fusion of Yin & Yang"? or not? Is there anyone in the Indonesian school to have achieved likeness like Chang with electrogenesis and pyrokinesis etc, or have all the students not been able to fuse their yin and yang? Peace Profound.

Brilliant! Makes much sense.

Finally someone on this thread gets what I mean. This is what I've been trying to say earlier. and what I was trying to dig at was whether traditional taoism be it philosophical or religious had anything of the sort. I felt that people love to cherry pick things from all over but dont actually bother to examine the inconsistencies in the cultural and philosophical concepts that they try to mix. Which is why I wanted to know if there really was anything from an old Taoist point of view that actually mentioned things of this sort head-on. People talk about karm-this-karma-that, throwing the word around like it was some kind of jelly spread. But the word itself is sanskrit. Which was part of the Hindu culture later absorbed by Buddhism. I wanted to know, "what is the validity in all these people claiming to be taoists talking about karma and so-and-so when they refuse to even acknowledge that the word they use (karma) has strictly one cultural stream from whence it came?". It's like people don't even know how words that they choose to use influence the way that they perceive the world. It's like having Hindu's going around talking people about wu-wei. "Of course it's completely natural for a hindu person to use the words wu-wei in their everyday occurences!". Well, not. Of course, one may argue that these things are present in both culture, as "karma-yoga" and "wu-wei" are similar in meaning. However, it is a completely moot point to assume that this is the case for all words which pertain to one culture's viewpoint that they will have an equal equivalent in all other cultures and hence is something universal. The problem that is present however, is, what is this word? What is the exact taoist terminology for karma? Are we just assuming that the concept exists when it may not for them? Where is it found in the writings? How can we be sure? Sure you can be some crack-hippy throwing the word "karma" around like it was candy and saying "it's all the same, duuude." - but it does not prove that this concept is something present or relevant. Hence which is why I am curious to find evidence that it did (or did not) exist. Most of the things here have been own people's eclectic opinions on how life should be handled etc, which I don't very much mind. A few of us though have been brave enough to take a proper stab at it and answer the question properly. Chidragon says "NAY"! 5ET says "YEA! to be an immortal it's said you have to be reborn until you're chosen etc!" (claiming knowledge of his sect etc) (which I am also waiting for a reply from for more info), and Marblehead says "NAY!" and says that it's not in the TTC, and that ZZ only toyed with it.

Well, if you have an aversion to Religious things or things similar to it which speak of things of a spiritual nature (Heaven, Immortals, Deities etc.) then of course Religious Taoism will show you things you don't like. However, if you are practicing alchemy and trying to practice their so-called methods of "immortality", then it shouldn't be that one is trying to shun it, but at least to be open to the experience. Who knows if these things are true or not true? Why assume that there is no celestial beings or men who have become immortal right away? I think it is the assumption that is the sin and not the tradition itself. John Chang is a master of alchemy, and if even a small portion of his videos were true, would that not push the limit of our understanding? I wish I could use Wang Liping properly as an example here to, but unfortunately he has not subjected himself to scrutiny to other people, but many people here attest to that he's the real deal as well. If you've done any amount of proper alchemy you would have experienced some things that by all means modern science would be baffled to explain. Science is limited because it is a very young discipline and it does not hold the wisdom that is inherent in older traditions. The sin here is that one assumes that all that can be seen with one's eyes are the whole of existence. There is so much more that we can not see that is going around than what we can see. I think that the point here is that it is alchemy that will separate the real stuff from the chaff. If you aren't actively trying to cultivate the different energies that exist inside of you, then it may be that you'll never experience things which you can't explain, and which is why it will be premature to make an assumption about these things. Although there is much dogma within religious Taoism there are things which are very true - but to only those who have practiced the alchemical methods. It is in achieving alchemy where you will find the answers to the questions you're looking for. Only those who have crossed the river will be able to tell you of the promised land.

5ET, do you have any specific daoist texts referring to this concept of karma and/or rebirth? since you're talking about the "shanching" sect here. It would be nice to read something in a specific text relating to this. i haven't read anything stating something to the effect of "and he was reborn and then became an immortal throguh the grace of the gods etc" within any texts that I have read, but then again they may be in some more obscure texts that I don't know of.

Book is nice. Much better than some books out there claiming to have "nei gong" in them. It's legit neigong. I would definitely recommend it to anyone trying to learn neigong. Just don't expect to go running around burning stuff with your hands like John Chang. because thats something that wont be found in this book. lol

The Javanese Indonesian occultists practice this, in their terminology it is called "mutih". "Mutih" refers to the color white - which generally means that they only eat rice and abstain from everything that has any taste whatsoever. Of course they don't limit themselves to just brown rice though. they practice it to purify themselves and to summon spirits or djinni. They will do this for weeks on end until the success of a ritual, it's very hardcore. but just one of many difficult practices, another is keeping oneself in complete darkness meditating in a hole in the earth. Why on earth would you want to have such a difficult diet though? That would be the only reason i'd think of attempting to do such a thing. it's very hard to live just on tasteless food.

Looks like for some reason looks like he's trying to delete his own thread. Except he can't cover up the things already said by others. Just look for "nicholas cage vampire" etc, he's claiming that a photo that was claimed by some people to be civil war era with a nicholas cage lookalike is evidence that Nick is a vampire. He seems to think that Cage really is a vampire of some sort. as the man said, to me it looks like a poor photoshop hoax which became viral. who remembers the bit about Justin Bieber being a 51 year old pedophile? this isn't the only piece of evidence!

Lol what kind of troll are you? Any hack can see that that the whole man's body along with his head is facing the camera dead on, while the Nicholas cage face on the head is nonproportional to the head it's on, and is facing the camera at at least a 15-30 degree slant. Clearly a sloppily done photo edit not worth anyone's time.

Reputation is the whole basis for choosing the people we choose as teachers. Would you want to enter into a relationship with a person who had a shitty reputation and always lied consistently to people about his services and goods? Would you buy food from people who were reputed to put poisonous chemicals into the food? Leave your car in an area reputed to be full of thieves and criminals? Reputation translates into economic power when a person is offering something, and so when you destroy it through slander or other means, you are damaging a person's ability to make a living and live the lifestyle that he so desires to. Don't you see that without reputation no one can possibly ever make a living at anything? The whole reason people want teachers like Wang Liping or John Chang etc is because of their reputation. No one wants a shitty hack teacher who steals stuff from other people and lies consistently about everything. The same goes for an employer who is hiring someone - a person's reputation is examined. If you really believe that reputation is something that should be forsaken then have a good one. Good luck getting a job or doing business. No one hires a reputed serial killer over a morally decent fellow. Reputation is very important for living in today's society. It may be ephemeral but it's implications are incredibly real.

It's much more 5ET's reputation at the stake here than just simply a matter of ignoring people. One person ignored=no harm done. Irreparably damaged reputation=quite the opposite.

Lol! I love wine or booze, I find alcohol to be a great social stimulant and quite relaxing - I don't generally behave bad with a little booze even though the stereotype of drinkers is... meh. Wine is even better. I wish also that I ate less. When your lifestyle is all cultivation your metabolism tends to lower as a result of being more efficient at utilizing the energy sources it has. If you eat a lot and sit around most of the day you get fat. Lol!