Kali Yuga

Hehe, it's all good man. no harm done as long as no one takes it personally, its nice though to see the different views coming out. Since I'm not too sure on the whole taoism and karma thing its better to get the opinions of those who know better than I do. Some good will probably come of it. Even though the folks here on the thread do not concur at the moment with ChiDragon, I appreciate that he's been straight-up with what he knows, and has been the first one on the thread to objectively take a stab at my question. I might learn quite a few things on this thread about traditional taoism vs the "popular taoism" that I first studied.

Hey Guys.. I am wondering, is anyone else an adept at the methods of dreamwork, lucid dreams and astral traveling? These are also the things that I would love to work with and learn, seeing as methods in books haven't helped me a whole lot. Is there any way I could have TaoMeow when you're done Lerner? or maybe someone else who is also pretty good at these things that i've mentioned above. I am very much interested in lucid dreams and astral travel. also, the skill that I can teach: I am very skilled in the technique of restoring balance to the body caused by common ailments, through a certain kind of meditative technique that I've developed. It speeds up vastly the recuperation period required for the body to bring itself back to healthy vibrancy. Where other people's colds , soreness and other common ailments tend to bog them down for days, my recuperation for anything has always been cut down to the minimum through my mastery of the technique. My technique is very simple, yet incredibly effective at curing small stuff throughout the day, but what is required is at least 10 minutes in order for it to be effective. You always want to have the small stuff handled because they tend to build up into one big thing if you don't address them. This technique is more effective than most prescription medicine, much healthier, and does not cost a dime. I'm willing to teach this most prized technique of mine, provided that that person is serious about learning it and will put it to good use, and won't just keep it on them as book knowledge, because to not utilize and practice it in daily life is to squander it. if karma's good, then I'll learn something cool from the things I mentioned above. If not, that's fine as it's always good to pay the kindness forward. Kali

I was not asking for personal advice as so many of you have given. I merely am curious to what the tradition of Taoism has to say about karma and reincarnation and if it believed in such things, to what extent. No more, no less.

Taoism is not new-age. Taoism is Taoism. I think the failure you make here is that you fail to make a distinction where as here I do. I am not interested in what is the amalgamation of entirely different cultures, traditions from very different backgrounds. I'm not interested in someone's personal belief about what it is or what it should be. I am interested in this single tradition alone. Hence why I am asking about Taoism alone, and not about what someone is trying to correlate based on their own prejudices like some hack who thinks that the I-Ching and 2012 are connected through prophecy etc. I know the good and bad about the new-age, I have been there, so you don't have to try and tell me about it. I do know however, that in the "new-age" there is a lot of unnecessary mixture of tradition and belief in such a manner as to put to shame the original pregenitors of the traditions. A bunch of mexicans doing peyote in the middle of the desert's traditions are not the same as a Taoist monk's monastic traditions. Even though they might have similarities, they will also have very large differences in their world-view and beliefs, hence why I think it is a disgrace to just mix and mash anything that suits your fancy with no regard for how the old tradition viewed it. There is much distinction between different traditions, and that is what "new-agers" so often fail to grasp, hence why I am asking for something explicitly Taoist and not something that is Buddhist, new-age or anything Castaneda-ish because that's not what I'm looking for. I am not talking about Buddhism. I am talking about Taoism. I'm not interested in hearing about Buddhist scripture. Please quote something from Taoist scripture or canon to back up your belief.

Well what you lack is focus. The greatest benefit of a disciplined mind is that these old conversations and memories do not rise up and bug you. A trained mind has the ability to silence the thoughts because a disciplined mind rests in emptiness. This article has been invaluable in my training to tame my mind. please take it quite seriously because it's the real deal. http://www.successconsciousness.com/index_000004.htm if you notice in part two of the article, the very last exercise is the complete silencing of the mind. when you attain this part a great burden will be lifted from your shoulders. you will be able to turn of the mind at will - an insanely valuable tool for well-being.

To me the concepts of the elements are all very relative. Each tradition has its own take on what everything is "composed of". To me I just throw out all the "five elements" or "four elements" thing and just focus on what is being said - the processes of the consciousness and its reaction to reality, and to other parts of consciousness as well. One is apt to become overly confused if you take what is said as being literal because different traditions have different views of the elements. Just take what you can use, throw out the rest.

I was under the impression that the concepts of hun and po were purely Taoist terms? or are these more of folk Chinese concepts which you're trying to work into Buddhism? I find it odd that you associate Buddhism with these things, as Buddhism as a whole does not generally deal with concepts like these. Maybe you're trying to integrate the Taoist view of the body and organ-element-spirits with Buddhism into some sort of comprehensive system of the sort? Still I find it a bit awkward when people try to do these things though. I generally like it better when people stick to a single tradition and the terminologies associated with it. The problem with cross tradition amalgamation is that there are differences we fail to see. for example, even though both traditions are mystical, and both heads of the tradition were considered "enlightened", I would not dare to compare Buddha and Lao-tzi. In my personal experiences with Buddhist members on this forum, Buddhists have tended to have a much more rigid worldview than Taoists, and from the way I see it, it is probably due to Buddhism having a completely codified view of reality in which one should see it that way - they believe all of reality down to a science, which why they leave no room for error and believe they know it all. However with very taoist members here I've seen that this dogmatism and overly rigid worldview becomes markedly more absent, and much more conducive to fluidity, flexibility and looseness that I believe comes with the Taoist view of "silencing the mind, and cultivating the virtue of harmony". In short, I think it's the taoist way of "letting things go their own way" and "flowing like water" which puts it at a distinction with the very technical and precise worldview that one finds in Buddhism. There is deep wisdom in both traditions although I would not dare so far as to put the two together and mix Taoist terminology with Buddhist terminology. I can understand that from a Chinese cultural perspective it is not uncommon to see both Taoist and Buddhist deities in homes and that there is a cultural acceptance of the two almost blending in with each other, but I just want to say that the two are not exactly synonymous which leads to the difficulty of mixing the two completely despite the two having overlapping in certain areas. Are you taught under the Complete Reality school of taoism or maybe the Wu Liu Pai? Or are you a formal student of Buddhism? from my understanding these two schools have quite a mixing of these two paradigms however I am not so entirely familiar with them. best, Kali

No I believe it is you who does not have his facts straight. ATP is still a potential form of energy which is converted into a kinetic energy upon the breaking of the third phosphate group. key word here is potential. the ATP is still further worked on to release that energy into a kinetic form of energy utilizable by the cell. there is a difference. the third phosphate group has to be broken off for that energy to be realized. the cell of the human body does not use ATP directly. the kinetic energy gained from the breaking of the ATP is the energy that is being utilized. it is like gasoline. the car does not utilize gasoline in itself , the car uses the kinetic energy released from the combustion of gasoline to generate movement. if the gasoline is not acted upon it is not kinetic energy. it is only a potential form of energy. it is the same with ATP. if the third phosphate bond is not broken there is no energy generated. there is a difference. page 5.

I have to agree with you when you say it is definitely not adenosine triphosphate that is running through the orbit pathways. I think this would be self-evident because ATP is limited by its physical form, whereas chi is most definitely not. ATP is the physical bond which has first to be broken in order to release energy - it is not the energy in itself. I think anyone with a third year highschool background remembers that it's the third phosphate bond which is broken through hydrolysis to achieve the extra energy. ATP is a physical form - a potential form of energy with a physical form. We all know chi is not limited by the physical form , the closest we can describe it is something akin to electromagnetism, however this is still definitely not it. But it is still not it. Remember the John Chang video? They could not identify the chi energy on the electromagnetic spectrum despite their efforts. But you see this is exactly what I'm trying to avoid this kind of useless drivel by assuming that it is such and such that moves through the orbit. The only use for such a discussion is merely a hypothesis and nothing more. In order to say what is and what isn't you have to have sound experimentation on it, however the hypothesis by itself, and hence the conjecture we make here proves nothing really. I am not arguing that materialism and spiritualism be exclusive, far from it. I am arguing that western science is too young and backward to readily accommodate such things into itself. No doubt in time this will be the case, but that will take a very long time, and it will take a reworking of the very model of which modern science is based on, not to mention overcoming the vatican-like resistance of the traditional science orthodoxy that has always placed itself as head and judge over what is "legit" science and what is not. The times will change, but people however remain the same. You could provide the most thought provoking and incredible sound data to people but however if they choose to be skeptical then they will remain skeptical. I know this will be the case in the future, however until that day, we have an incredibly long way to go before we start saying what is defacto understanding of the chi science through western eyes. this is why I suggest that it is at best, just talk, and just that, and the fact remains that from a western standpoint we don't really "know" anything, hence clashing with the title of the thread. which is why I'm suggesting that we stick to the experiential viewpoint or at least if it has to be backed up by books, something that has roots in experience itself. because if not so, then I fear this thread will just be turned into another one of those trashy threads full of armchair chi guys telling people about what they dont know. Like for example it is quite deceiving to a newcomer to the techniques of MCO to believe that a simple deep abdominal breath concludes the whole practice of MCO. this is not true at all.

I disagree with what you all are trying to do here. You guys are trying to physicalize this daoist esoteric science into a mundane biochemical mindset - which is very shoddy to say the least to handle something as profound as what we have here. It is very inadequate at describing the real processes and happenings within the human body. You guys are going off thread into which does not reflect the topic itself is which is "what do we know about the microcosmic orbit". Key word: KNOW. The only way to have knowledge of this sort of thing is to experience it. you guys are debating pure conjecture here which is off topic and rather pointless. This whole matter is incredibly simple. Either you have a credible teacher who has mastered the training regimen you want to undergo, have experimented yourself and achieved some experiential knowledge(of which hopefully you don't screw up), or are just a book worm with none of the actual experiential knowledge that comes only through practicing the techniques in deep meditation. You could try to explain everything within the western mindset but it will always fail at some point. You can't achieve anything here. How can western science explain the creation of the immortal body? It can't. Why? Because it isn't equipped to deal with disciplines such as this, because by fact these things exist outside of the limited materialistic and mechanical framework of western understanding. Its a moot effort.

Theres nothing to be sorry for Stig, if in the moment of your doing things you were sincere in your intentions, which I believe undoubtedly you were and still are. You can't apologize for fighting for the things which you believe in. If others do not see it this way then it of course is not your fault. You don't have to apologize for being true with yourself even if others may disagree. I myself support and agree with many of the things that you say, and I've seen many of my own sentiments echoed exactly the way you've said them over the past few days. I feel that there should be no apology for this. There are others who feel and agree with you about these things. No need to shuffle feet and other things for this. Never apologize for having the higher moral ground. Kali

Ralis, try as you may (and I know you will ), I quickly came to that realization about a few dozen of his threads back. The man doesn't listen to reason, nor does he subject anything he says to actual scrutiny of logic. He will pretty much ignore everyone's most poignant points like they never existed. He lives in his own world, a world where everyone else except him is "ignorant and deluded" (oh and did I mention subhuman losers?). Have a good one.

Ahh the sense of vertigo. I think it is either that you are going deeper in meditation than usual, or your body isn't used to it yet. If you don't like it you might want to try focusing on the ground and your legs during the meditation and see what happens. Weird little things like that happen when you meditate hard after coming off of a break. Also have you done any intoxicants a few hours or the night before the meditation? I usually get that, along with some pretty awesome closed eye visuals when I am meditating to remove a hangover using my own technique. Have fun while it lasts, it probably won't.

Heat in the dantien is pretty much foundation level alchemy - but when you do get it, it makes you realize the enormous potential of inner alchemy. Many practitioners will be bouncing off the walls up and down when they get it, because it's not easy for everyone - for some people it takes a long time to arrive at the correct meditative state to reach that level of creating heat at the dantien. I assure you many people here have been there already - but not all of those who talk about it.

If there was no love we would have killed each other all off, a long, long time ago. I think you underestimate the power or love to raise consciousness and create good karma. Also you refuse to even differentiate between love and desire - it could be that you haven't learned to tell the two apart, oh mighty tulku master. Even enlightened beings are always streaming down their love and their light. It is love that heals karmic wounds, that raises vibrational consciousness of a being from one of unhealthy vibrations to one of healthy vibrations. Do you think that the Buddha, Jesus, or any other high master refuses to shine down his love on other people? Or are they like you, who are too haughty and "too superior" and just scoff at the rest of us because they are so called "better" ? Do you think gaining some nice powers and entry into Universe B is going to make everything all right? You'll find that the same dynamic exists anywhere you go - that there are those who have power, and there are those who have love. There are endless worlds you could go to with powers - but without love it does you no good because it is the only thing separating one person's cleanliness of energy and being versus a polluted entity, trapped in suffering and delusions regardless of the world or dimension. It's not easy to help another being to guide him to not indulge in the behaviors that cause his suffering, but I tell you without love you are all out of luck. Love is the most basic teaching. Without it you are hopeless. You love to talk about Buddha, but you shun the most basic precepts of right speech (broken by you calling us here subhuman losers and the like, when a real aspirant does not resort to insults so easily), right conduct (broken by you conducting yourself in such a condescending, unbecoming, and NON HUMBLE behavior of a true aspirant), and LOVING COMPASSION for all beings. You have NO HOPE WHATSOEVER of becoming a true boddhisattva if you can not even master the most simple precept of them all, love. You can't just cherry pick the shit like you've been doing for so long, so as to make things look like "all the masters support my point of view etc" and then abandon the very same masters when they say something that doesn't fit your point. You have such a long way to go, it's crazy. Oops did I just wound your ego again? Come quick give another insult. Tell us we are ignorant losers. Are you becoming tired yet? You just barge in here and think that you're going to tell everyone else the ABC's of the universe when you fail to recognize even the serious cultivation that many of us on here have done - you can't even show respect or kinship to other people, or recognize the difficulty of achieving what they have done, to become who they are - and then you are going to demand that we take you seriously? You are only lucky that many of the folks here on this forum are much higher than your childish behavior has exuded over many of the threads you've made, which is why they don't resort to the same kind of cut and paste rhetoric and condescending demeanor that you choose to behave with. Do you think the monks in REAL monastic communities will take you seriously if you can't even behave properly, or scoff at their most fundamental teaching of love? You've shown that there is no humility in you - and that you can't even post without having the need to act like you're a boss and a know it all. You are what I call a spiritual materialist - someone who talks about being spiritual, and then acts like they have the authority to teach others while at the same time looking down upon them. You're no accomplished practitioner - you're no better than the pharisees in the synagogues that Jesus talked about - the ones who talk like they know it, quote verses by the book, suppose to teach others and look down on those who are not like him. The prideful hypocrites. He warned us of your kind a long time ago. Go home, you are no tulku. You're just a wanna be.

"Self-deluded clowns"<============SO MUCH LOL! Oh, the ironies that people exude sometimes. if only he knew.... if only he knew.

this thread is so full of FAIL

Theres a part about Earth Stepping somewhere in this vid. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1325805851224851246 The whole thing is a bit sarcastic but at the same time I think they make incredibly good points on how this whole earth-guilt thing is also well, a scam.

Hold on it's this one right?

Large testicles require turbelence? LOL! haha respect to the mods for having a sense of humor. ... I've just come to an epiphany! To become a superior being one must lose all sense of humor, cut his balls off and go into the wild. Do crocodiles have testicles?! LOL

ahh. well... then tulku is a reptile now? Crikey mate!

*wonders how tulku can get away with speaking so derogatorily towards other members*

Both of you are WRONG. tulku is.. A SUPER MAMMAL! *laughs with witch and anamatva* *simulataneously sighs at tulku*

Sorry but in my experience Chia is nice for a beginner to internal arts but as a practice its worthless crap.