passenger1980

I've been a vegetarian for almost 4 years i think. To me veganism it's more like an ideal or some of activism. Yes, the cows and chickens that are not free range suffer, so what? You are not making them suffer, it's not your choice, you should fight the people and demand they treat animals well not stop eating eggs. Perhaps the best thing is to buy eggs from a trusted local and organic farm. Also finding vegan products (not only food related) is a pain, and companies can actually lie to you about what they use. To me we have to learn to live WITH animals, not without them, killing them and torture them is out of the question, we have to be grateful and respectful of them, for what they provide us and what we provide them (food, shelter, medicine, etc). We have to cherish them as our own pets or even more. The life of a free range farm cow is much more peaceful than any other species fighting for survival each day. I love nature in all its forms but to me we are giving the cow a favour. And most likely, that cow has a much more better karma than a lion or a seal. Similar to dogs, cats and other animals that are closer to the confortable human experience than to cruel nature. Perhaps when all population becomes vegetarian and eating meat is closer to cannibalism than a pleasure, then we can consider veganism. The world as a whole will understand more about nutrition, foods will be enriched with vegetarian issues in mind, etc, so the change to veganism would sound more logical and practical. So my suggestion is to become vegetarian, at least to try it out and see how you do. Going full vegan can actually make you go back to meat in a month and never give it another thought...

I think most of us here (each of us with their own spiritual background) will survive with less goods, with just enough food and shelter to get by. Lack of material possesions and luxuries won't drive us crazy or make us loose our mind by any means. However, the problem is what happens if the world eventually becomes a dog eat dog scenario, where people come after you and your family, and food and shelter become the more precious things? That would be a terrible scenario and a test of our own morality and cultivation. What should we do? defend our family and friends, killing other men? Kill to get food and shelter if you don't have them? Die trying? Kill ourselves because we don't want to be part of that world? Clearly a very sad situation and no easy answers...

I think you should all check "Collapse", even if the guy is a little out there, every thing he speaks sounds true and will happen eventually, that's a fact. Oil will run out sooner or later and our civilization is not prepared. It's terrifying and we can only hope that we have time to find a new system before all hell breaks loose. I don't think the transition will be peaceful and quiet...

I meant the genre in general, but i love Mono too, plus that song in particular is great also

No problem, i thought it was a very interesting speech by Iggy and completely answered this thread's question even if it's not heavy-metal related. Post rock and post metal are definitely great genres in terms of more spiritual leaning music. A lot of buildup and layers going on (arpeggios). Being mostly instrumental it also leaves room for meditating and contemplation. All those bands you mentioned are awesome of course, but if people are not into the heavier side (i can add God is an Astronaut into this group) perhaps they should try more post rock oriented bands like giants Sigur Ros or Mum and Explosions in the Sky. I don't know, i've always hated the whole new age stuff in terms of "spiritual" music, sounds extremely lame and cheezy to me. This on the other hand really lift my spirit.

It doesn't apply to heavy metal, but here's a very spiritual example of powerful music via scottish band's Mogwai sampling an old interview with Iggy Pop : "I'll tell you about punk rock: punk rock is a word used by dilettantes and, uh... and, uh... heartless manipulators, about music... that takes up the energies, and the bodies, and the hearts and the souls and the time and the minds, of young men, who give what they have to it, and give everything they have to it. And it's a... it's a term that's based on contempt; it's a term that's based on fashion, style, elitism, satanism, and, everything that's rotten about rock 'n' roll.'I don't know Johnny Rotten... but I'm sure, I'm sure he puts as much blood and sweat into what he does as Sigmund Freud did. You see, what, what sounds to you like a big load of trashy old noise... is in fact... the brilliant music of a genius... myself. And that music is so powerful, that it's quite beyond my control. And, ah... when I'm in the grips of it, I don't feel pleasure and I don't feel pain, either physically or emotionally. Do you understand what I'm talking about? Have you ever, have you ever felt like that? When you just, when you just, you couldn't feel anything, and you didn't want to either. You know, like that? Do you understand what I'm saying, sir?" Here's the full version of the interview :

Buddha warned against nihilism (annihilation) if that's what you mean, but i guess it's the nietzschean concept. You are advocating to pursue our desires and passions and that's what basically got us here, although it's not actually bad, it's something we must experience AND overcome it to regroup and enter the next level. We can all agree that life has mundane pleasures and joys. However, anyone with some degree of spiritual development also knows that passion and desire in any form are bad at the end, because they are not the true source of happiness, they are not permanent. The problem is not lying to oneself of course and force to not feel or want this, if you want and need to have kids and reproduce, well, it's your divine right of course and there could be plenty of joy, i can't deny that. It's not something horrible by any means, i love my parents and i've been blessed with their love and unconditional support since i was born. It just that some people are at different stages i guess and to me an spiritual life completely contradicts a typical family life (at least how it's set up in this world). I can also see how many proud parents can actually gain a lot of wisdom from having children. However, that how monks and wise men lived across the centuries, in any religious traditions, including hermits, philosophers and mystics, not many had children...i wonder why and how they would justify their decisions. I tend to believe they felt the same way as me, but of course i'm not sure and i can't even fathom the idea of comparing myself to such wise men, haha!

Some random thoughts and personal opinions on these subjects : 1) I can't believe someone wants to have kids nowadays, to me it's just not ethical, in any way. Overpopulation is my main concern, but i also feel that the need to have a child is based on pure ego, of course every proud parent will try to disguise it. Then comes the "teaching" part, which we all know it's a failure from the start, as we all been there as sons. To me all these is further develop attachment to the world and nothing else. If you think you can handle without attachment, then you have another thing coming my friend. Adopting a child is the most noble thing one can possibly do, but that just my opinion. We won't be running out of kids anytime soon. On the other hand, i can relate to how having a child becomes your priority and somehow lessens your ego driven life. You can still experience that adopting a child though. 2) People don't seem to understand what is karma and no self is. You are only the results and consequences of someone's else past lives's actions and thoughts. You have no relationship whatsoever from past lives except from this, there's no soul or identity that migrates from body to body. At least, this is what Buddha taught. Unwholesome deeds creates future unwholesome states, but usually it's not as clear or perfect as we could understand it or accept if with our logical yet biased mind, it's not "an eye for an eye" concept.

Amazing article, very moving and inspiring. We should all be thankful for not been exposed to those type of situations and/or crossroads in our lives.

Very interesting article : http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/12/science/12psychedelics.html

Well i don't think the idea is to encourage drug use but one wonders how the current legal and medicine drug market is handled, while other drugs like lsd are completely in the dark. Same goes to illegal drugs, but that's another whole debate. Anyone who has taken lsd or similar drugs knows what the article is all about. To many people, spiritual experiences are completely foreign due to how they live their lives and how they feed their ego. While many of us have experienced meditation and practice effects on our lives and can understand there's more to reality, many other people - who are let's say more "spiritual challenged" - could definitely benefit for a different (artificial yes...) perspective with psychedelic drugs.

Earthlings should be shown in schools. It's a little biased of course, but nothing compared to PETA's videos and stupid tactics. It's more information based and unveils what really goes on with dignity and powerful arguments, not only in terms of food, but in our relation with animals as a whole. I was a vegetarian before watching it, but everybody i know who watched either became a vegetarian or started supporting vegetarian lifestyles and animal rights after that (before there was just mockery or indiference). Well all this is a little offtopic, although dolphins (sadly) are also a included in Earthlings.

Great doc indeed, i didn't find it too shocking though, i've been a vegetarian for some time now, and compared to Earthlings and similar movies this is a walk in the park. Still, the suicide part was pretty interesting, i didn't know dolphins could do that, well actually i don't know if they are actually capable of doing it or if was just an opinion from its owner. Anyway, i still think whales, dolphins, pandas and polar bears are getting MUCH more attention than pigs, cows and chickens, but it was sad to see these kinda of massacres going on. I really can't understand how can authorities say that wales and dolphins are overeating with a straight face. Humanity is a virus, really. I'm not just saying it as in a nihilism/existencial sort of way. Our objetive in life is to f*ck it all up. The problem is that we are aware of that and we can't really help it...

That's awesome, thanks!

I've been invited by a friend to a Diamond Way Buddhist center to check it out. I don't know if anyone is familiar with them, so here is some information : http://www.diamondway-buddhism.org/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ole_Nydahl I have read some stuff about Ole Nydahl's teachings and it's ok, although his students seem a little too fanatic about his persona and the whole thing, which is not very buddhist in my opinion. Anyway, i would like to know if there are any members here, and also what is the opinion about this from more experienced posters and general buddhists. Thanks!

I didn't know Jesus used to meditate.

I don't know, i believe true art (being literature, films, music, etc) teaches us and uplift our spirit, even if it contains violence or harsh despictions of the human condition. Love, humour, joy are wonderful things to experience, perhaps one of our best qualities as human beings. To me, the problem lies, not in deny all these things, but in observe them as the phenomena they are. To not make them our own, that's where the ego lies, and it always wants more. I don't blame the ego though, after all, we are not really sure what will come next, and sickness and death is around the corner. We just want to be happy in our own particular way. But i get the message about a simpler world, which is very much at hand if humankind unites and do it right once and for all. We have all the technology and knowledge to do it. Sadly, this kind of thought has been around for ages, and evil thoughts, egoism, hate & inflicted pain seems to always be present and conspire against the idea.

I knew about this AWA book and Ramana Maharshi meditation for some time. The problem is that it seems like a personality disorder if you understand it in the wrong way. It's easy to fall on the awareness watching awareness watching awareness watching awareness....etc, haha. But once you "get it" it's really the most profound meditation i've tried. It's like you are really experiencing the real self, similar to mindfulness but without the effort of keeping focus. Maybe it's just mindfulness done perfectly. I mostly do metta, vipassana and samatha styles of meditation, i guess i will have to do more of this, perhaps i'm not really ready to experience the self, so i tend to procrastinate this method.

Yes i know what you mean, it happens to me too, well at least in a similar way. It's like you are aware of you being aware, another level of mindfulness. The problem is that it's very difficult to maintain in regular situations, it seems i can keep the sensation just in quiet places while i'm being mindful/in the present or during meditation, of course.

Thanks a lot man, i'll try it.

I completely agree. Also that "ego" is very similar to the concept of "soul" to the average christian.

Really cool!

Since last Wednesday, i started seeing more vivid colors. Yes, just like that, i was working in my office, and suddenly i started noticed how reds, greens, yellows, blues and all those strong looking colors came alive. It's an amazing experience, i don't have any double vision or blurring, in fact, i see even more sharper than before (i don't have any eyes problems either, don't wear glasses). The whole visual world looks stunning, i'm like a child again. However, it's really making me anxious, because i'm clearly seeing the difference between before and after. This is not normal. Will this going away anytime soon? What if tomorrow instead of seeing perfectly vivid colors and textures i just don't get to see anything anymore?. I checked for medical symptoms like this on the net, and of course, they don't exist... Now, i'm not on drugs, i did experiment with Marihuana and LSD (smoked less than 10 cigarettes in my life, and i took LSD once, like more than a year ago, and not that much, just enough to get this kind of visual stuff, plus the whole euphoric experience, with a couple of friends. I haven't used drugs for more than a year, and even then, i didn't anything that hard or that much as i mentioned. Anyone had a similar experience, or would like to give me some advice? I meditate using vipassana and samatha techniques, for about half an hour or an hour a day, before going to sleep. I also practice mindfulness during the day. It also seems that lately i've been able to go deeper and get more clarity in meditation, which i don't know if its related. I would really appreciate any input on this, thanks.

Thank you all for your replies. Well it still continues, and seems to be permanent (remember it started on Wesnesday last week). The difference is notorious as i'm constantly remainded of my clear vision, but i'm still very anxious because like i said, i'm experience something weird, and for a lot of days now. I've already checked my pupils and are not dilated, they are normal i guess. I'm still pretty clueless about this, as many of you. I guess time will tell, if it goes away or if i get used to it... I haven't been doing any power meditation in particular, just samatha and vipassana as i mentioned, although i did notice achieving more profound and deep states lately.