sheng zhen

Yes, thank you Lin. If you have a good dreamwork method, like is shown at www.dreamyoga.com, you can see the wonderful light, clearity, intelligence, and "hidden" nudging of the soul to point you in the right direction for your evolution. But you need a way, or the ability to see behind the illusory images. But I totally agree with you on the concept that there is no difference in working the dreams or with waking life. Its the same thing. Only small difference is that in dreams our normal conditioning and limitations is a little more fluid.

I did it seated. I practiced only for about 5 months. In Falun Gong thay do hold the ball in full lotus. They also say they have the highest practice. I dont believe in anyone saying these kinds of things anymore. I just do a practice that feels good for me to do.

Happy birthday both of you!

It probably means that Kunlun is the first practice, and all other practices comes from Kunlun. Kunlun is the root and the rest of the worlds practices is the flower. When I practiced Kunlun it made sense to me because I felt I could better understand the other practices. Also from my spontaneous movements I could recognize movments of other practices. I did some movements one day, I remember, and the next day I saw Ken Cohen do it on a DVD. So it made sense to me at the time. But Im not shure anymore, there are so many people claiming their practice is the root practice of ALL other practices. I guess they have to do it for marketing. "umm, its nothing special with this practice" isnt really something that generates interest in people

It seems that the taobums are in a constant flux with new people coming in discussing things with new inspiration and frustration, while the old people drop out and discuss other things. If it werent for people like Edward Richards, Dao Zhen, Lin and all those of their caliber I didnt mention, who suddenly steps in and gives something of great value, this would be a normal forum. But thanks to them it is not a normal forum, its a great one. I dont think the topics on retension, David Shens prices and Kunlun debunking will ever stop being discussed. Even though its a long time since Ive seen a new Kunlun debunking thread. Or maby its just because I didnt read it...

Thank you for setting things straight regarding chinas current economic culture. Most people have very romantic views about money and spirituality. I find the concept of believing that money dosent have anything to do with spirituality as an argument that spirituality should be free very strange. Money having a negative connection to spirituality is still having a connection. If money truly dosent have anything to do with spirituality, then who cares who charges how much for what...really? The only thing that matters is how are you going to direct your life so that you can learn what you want to learn. But Edward, I have some more questions. How much does Jiang charge? And how is your trainging with him? Is it consultations, where you learn the method one time and then come back to learn more when you are ready or is there a program you follow? Can anyone learn from him or does he say no to some people?

Wonderful! Thank you so much. You are Master Sharer of Taobums, Dao Zhen. No one shares as well as you do As usual in your posts there is so much to absorb I cannot comment on much other than what I immediatly recognice. Or what your words awaken in me, so to speak. My experience with lucid dreaming, and pellucid dreaming, is that when I meditate before I go to sleep it is much easier to wake up in the dream. I used to do that a lot many years ago and had full control of my dreams every night. I had sex with everyone I wanted, could fly everywhere I wanted, change the dream in every way I wanted, I did all kinds of things. I even died at one point by choosing not to wake myself up in the middle of a falling dream. It all got boring after a while. So I started getting pellucid dreams, where I just let the dream go on and only interfere occationally. From there Ive deteriorated back to regular dreaming like I do now. From what I can gather, based on my own experience and others teachings, the no-dream state means that you dont dream, you are still awake even though the body and brain is asleep. You do inner work as usual, cultivate your self as usual(meaning not like we do now, but like a master do it when he is at the level where he reaches the no-dream state..., I can only dream to imagine how it is done). And when you wake up you dont "return" to wakefulness. You dont awake, or go to sleep, because you are in the same state of awake awareness 24 hours a day. I guess the only difference from sleeping and waking is that while sleeping you dont do dishes or wash clothes with the body. Dr. Joseph Dillard, creator of Dream Yoga(not Tibetian Dream Yoga, no), wrote me a letter a while ago explaning how enlighenment is not enlightenment if one is not enlightened even in ones dreams. Makes sense to me. Its about transcending duality, both this reality and the dream reality, and enter into onness, where the awareness is never asleep or awake, just completely aware. This does not have anything to do with the psychosis many people experience from doing lucid dreaming techniques where one dont know what is real and what is not. It cannot be achived with one technique, but only though a totality of developement of ones entire being. It seems to be a natural state to enter at some point in our awakening evolution. We wouldnt be fully aware if we go to sleep, would we. I would say that if we get fully aware, but then at some point go to sleep again, we werent fully aware in the first place. Only partial, still limited to space and time.

hahaha

Thanks, but do you have link for the website? I did a search the website was down or gone or something. Ive done quite a lot of lucid dreaming, and pellucid dreaming, and would like know more about the daoist sleep practices. I know Wang LiPing explains in his book that he uses dreams for learning. And Ive heard people report he uses it for teaching too. I also have a teacher who uses dreams to teach so Ive payed attention to my dreams and worked with them for many years. Maby I can pm Dao Zhen and see if he would like to share a little about it.

But is the no-dream state like meditation while lucid dreaming? (without making any comparison ) One more question, is there anything that replaces the dreaming? Any inner work, practice or things like that? Or is it just emptyness?

Thanks. But I guess this no-dream state is not the same as not remembering any dreams. Is it more like the tibetian lucid deraming where you enter meditation while you are lucid in dreaming?

I believe it is called pellucid dreaming. Much more fun than controlled lucid dreaming. But YMWong, could you explain more about the "no dream" phase? I have seen Dao Zhen mentioned it here too a while ago. Do you mean that we actually dont have dreams, or that we are just as conscious in dreams as we are in waking life, meaning no difference between the two states?

What makes you so shure the reason teachings will get lost is because all the master with the valuble information charge too much money?

Im shure you think your attitude is fine Shidoing, we all think our own attitude is fine. But does Wang LiPing or John Chang think the same of us? If you visit them, learn from them and come back and tell me they thought your attitude was great and really helping in bridging the gap between east and west, Ill back down and admit I was wrong to comment it. Ill even adapt your attitude and start demanding! But personally I dont think "demanding" is ever the right attitude. And Edward Richards, that came here to share, didnt exactly express joy from meeting that attitude either. And the point is that it is Wang LiPing and John Chang, or any other eastern master, that should decide if that attitude is fine because it is their information you want, right? Not the other westeners that already agree with you and want everything for free through an internet forum.

Do you bridge the gap between east and west if you went up to Wang LiPing with your attitud saying "Hey Wang LiPing, give me your secret teaching NOW or I will think you are a fraud! We dont hold secrets in the west you know!!!" Hahaha, please show us how your attitude briges the gap between the east and west. It seems you mean to shut the traditional east out and replace it with the invasive part of the west. Drew, you've had enough chocolate!

These things would only be an issue if you are a kid on a sugar high... But there is also people on this forum that want to talk, like normal people.

You must have more than enough interesting stories to tell to write a book(or four), like Drew say Thanks for sharing! Im wondering, what do you think is the reason Jiang has so many successful students while John Chang dosent? Is it because of the lineage? But youre also saying that John Chang still teaches westeners? Many people have claimed that he has stopped all teaching. Are you studying with all three? Isnt that a lot of methods to deal with at the same time, or do they work together?

So its much better to have little siddhis, done with just a little ego, than the big ones that need a big ego Yoda, maby my text contained a little transmission!

What a great topic! If I notice I have air in my stomach I can move it through the intestines at will and fart it out at command. Thats a pretty small siddhi isnt it?

Great reading that letter you posted Smile! It was long but really worth it. It totally agree with him on everything.

Rain, I remember you once said this: Im not shure, but that dosent sound nice... Mr.Jang poop from behind Mr.Raindeer??? hahaha

Yes Im with you on that one. But I think the "doing nothing" is more in terms of wu wei, action in accordance with the tao, the natural movements of the universe so to speak. And the game I refuse to play is the game of my own reaction patterns, fears and limitations. When you are faced with your karma in everyday life you act upon it pro-actively instead of re-actively. If you have learned your lesson the karma begin resolve and you have become more awake. But then you have to re-confirm you new awareness every second of the day, in every situation you are in. Thats a challenge. To not reconfirm and remanifest karma based on our usual patterns, but rather reconfirm and remanifest our new and evolved awareness in a way that reaches beyond this incarnation.

PM is on the way. Some people pointed out a few times earlier in this thread that this is stricktly for discussing John Chang, nothing else