sheng zhen

Its a stong word Peace out!

So you think I dont understand what you do. This can only mean that you dont understand what I try to tell you, so right back at ya No, seriously, I experimented with scanning for 5 years before I got it as a profession and have been working with it for the last 7 years. Im well trained in "clinical" scanning with a 4 years education in a system that is heavily based on scanning peoples energy systems and layers of consciousness, as well as many weekend courses, initiations and things like that. On my way Ive experienced a lot of the problems that arise from scanning and many subtle subconscious sideeffects. I dont do it anymore unless it is under therapeutic conditions because I know of all the subtle, or for the conscious people not-so-subtle, effects both for the scanner and the scanned. In the beginning everybody experiment with these things, but that is mostly because they where taught by people who still experiment themselves and dont have a solid knowledge of what is really going on in the sideline, if I can call it that, during the communication. It is no different than what you do here in the physical world, or what doctors do as surgeons, its just more subtle. But for the subtle aspects of our selves it is not subtle, it is very real. And because of that the need for ethics, respect, purity and non-interference is even more important than ever. Im certain you dont go up to strangers and start touching them with your hands just to satisfy your curiosity on how their body looks like. This is what happens on a subtle level when you do things like this. I have stopped doing it to satisfy my curiosity or get information other people cant get, just to put me in a special position. Would you like people to dive into your subconscious and personal sphere, whenever they want, just to get a feeling of how you are, where your problems lie or what level you are at? I certainly dont want that. And whenever I notice something like that I kick them right out and distort what they get from me.

Hey, thats cheating! Is David and Max real according to the scanning you have done?(I guess you have done it allready, haven't you...) But I would also add an argument that these kinds of techiniques can be pretty invasive. I wouldnt encourage people to try on everyone they are curious about. Many subtle communication lines are opened and many unwanted sideeffects can appear. And if you dont have permission it would ethically be close to rape. Would you like people to suddenly pop up on you, scanning you, searching you, touching you everywhere, disturbing your focus and energy?

Did you loose your male jing on this thread?? ugh!! thats gross...wipe it off! Hahaha, like David or Max owes us that for all the trouble they made here! Yes! and they NEED to do it! It is Max and David that has caused this forum so much trouble! And if they dont do it personally we will just have to ask Buddy to go and "drop him like a stone". Gosh, we are not the center of the universe you know. If they have done anything to this forum, we should thank them for presenting practices that create so much activity and interest.

It is so simple. But if everybody knew that we wouldnt have fun discussions like this one. So shhhh, dont say it out loud

And then how do we get rid of the karma we already have accumulated? Do we just stay that karmically fat the rest of eternity?? At what time in our evolution do you think we get the chance to make up for the karma we have accumulated? I think the time is right here right now, in the choices(conscious and subconscious) we make everyday, every second. Every detail plays its part in representing the karmic play throughout the incarnations. And depending on our level of awakening we raise the level, or amount, of resolving karma. Oooh, those number could really blow my mind and my participation in this discussion away... but to me it still sounds like its rumors. Where you there Gamuret? Do you have a friend who was there? Or is it information through a friend of a friend who has heard it through some unknown poster on an other internetforum?

And how then is karma erased?

Yes, but still, karma is piling up if we dont learn and do the same mistakes over and over again. If we learn, adapt and evolve, karma is erased. So if this was something happening many years ago, and now only an argument, what are we actually discussing here? The ethics of someone we dont know based on a rumor of something happening years ago? Its getting pretty vague...

Sounds like a really fun weekend!

No I didnt. You know my issue here is with the beliefsystems that teachings should not cost money. I dont know much about Verdesis history or anything else about the relationship he has to other people I dont know. And I dont trust rumors, especially those put forward on internet, so I want to wait with my judging about his ethics until I meet Verdesi myself.

This is not true. It is not like that "now". There are many masters you dont need a credit card to see. And if you realize this, it is not so sad after all... And then, if it is not so sad...where does your argument go? Would you even feel the need to comment on people charging money for what they offer? This whole discussion about Verdesi charging too much money is so childish. Who cares!? (...other than the people that WANT his teaching but WANT HIM to teach them for free) If he charges too much money then just dont go goddammit! Go to someone you feel your money is worth. Or someone that teaches for free. Its not like people shout about jewlery that costs too much money. They just buy something they can afford. But some people will allways think that anything spiritual should be free just because they have been brought up to think is should not be associated with money or materialism. But this view is actually a way to keep it all closely connected to money. And it is a way to make your money a sin, or something coming from the devil, something that makes us loose focus on the spiritual(so give it all to the church instead!). If we only were free of the money and materialisim all would be fine. But I think it is the other way around. If your not able to keep your spiritual focus within the world of materialisim, youre not able to keep your spiritual focus outside of materialism either. One of my friends got really angry because he felt the Kunlun workshop was WAY to expencive and therefore those guys must be fraud, he said. Its just not a very refined view on what spirituality is. As if it is something completely different than what we experience everyday. One thing that the critics of Foundation Training should remember is that no one who actually has been taught by Verdesi feel they have been tricked or not got what their money was worth. This is an important point to remember in this discussion.

Hi scualo blanco. If I felt your taiji class was worth 5000euros I would gladly pay you and be even more happy after class. I would do anything I could to get the money to go to your class. So if you feel your taiji class is worth 5000euro, man, why dont you do it?? I know most people have a hard time hanging on in everyday life. So do I. But when there is something I want to do there is nothing more than my own stupidity that can stop me. And if I realize Ive been stupid I would learn from it, try again, and at the end get it anyway. We are really never stuck in anything other than those things we subconsciously (or even consciously) choose to be stuck in. Its a sad fact. Anything can be dealt with if we work with it smart enough and dedicated enough. Most things can even be done for free. To learn from your own mistakes, evolve and adapt is totally free. And if you do that there is not much that can stop you And I agree with you. Money does not have anything to do with spirituality. Still people believe that all spiritual teachings should be for free, hahaha

People living in ewstern society should not have any trouble getting money. If they are willing to not be so lazy. And get a little disipline. Which is two things that are needed in serious practice anyways. So if you are not able to get the money to do what your want, you wont be able to practice what you want either. And an other thing that should be killing the discussion on the stupid master that charge too much for their teaching is the fact that if you think its too expencive, go to someone you can afford or someone who teaches for free! That shouldnt be any problem, should it? After learning Xing Shen Zuang I would say that it was worth every penny! And if the rest of what David teaches has the same quality, money certainly is not an issue for me.

So do I! Wish I could be there but Im with my girlfriend on the other side of the country, so Im still happy Maby if Im lucky they will do other workshops in Oslo an other time.

Right. Science is no more than religion. But that should maby be another discussion.

There has been a study showing that placebo-acupuncture actually works BETTER than placebo-pills, hahaha. Thats how good acupuncture is! Also, most studies on acupuncture where they put needles outside of acupunturepoints measure the pain-relief effect. That is endorphine release. So if you have a headache you can stick a needle anywhere on your body and the pain fades. It say nothing about acupuncture as a placebo-method. Just that a needleing releases endorphins that works as pain relief. The other thing is that in scientific studies they need to reproduce the same study. They dont take individual treatment into account and use a finished set of points, like in the pailrelief study mentioned above. At least the studies that disproove of acupuncture do it that way. Any good acupuncturist know that every individual has to be treated differently.

Jumping into full lotus looks like a real nice trick. Drew, that would be something to impress the young females!!

...very uninformed(and a little... well...). I used to work at a medicine company called Pharmacia(now Pfizer), they have a lot of urology medicine and actually used several studies of acupunture in their marketing. That is scientific studies prooving acupunture as effective in treating urologic diseases. Later I have seen hundreds of studies prooving the effect acupunture. And there is probably thousands that I havent seen, haha. And only a few that prooves it is placebo. But the few that prooves it is placebo is blown up in the media because they reflect the common beliefsystem that anything that cant be explained by molecular interactions is bogus.

My teacher compares the reality of entities to the world of microorganisms. They are there to break down the trash we create, and they are represented on every level of existence. He say that we have two major strands of beings; creative and destructive. Humans are basicly part of the creative. And what is normally regarded as negative entities is part of the destructive, toghether with bacteria, virus, mushrooms and beings that break down other things. In our body most of our cells are bacteria, both good and bad. They have their own agenda and do their own thing. That means we consist mostly of beings who are not really "ours". We are a grand orchestra of beings, good and bad, and different levels of consciousness that cooperate. If we get "attacked" by entities eating us alive there is no need to play victim because we are a just as important part of the whole game. If we create a lot of crap, the crap needs to be destroyed. When we dont create crap the destroyers go elsewhere to find crap to eat. I totally agree with Vortex that shiny happy people full of love still attracts entities with the crap they create from their blindspots. Being full of love is no safeguard against crap-production, hahaha. Our blindspots are still active. I am actually very happy that there are beings to destroy the things we do wrong. Its just as an important job as creating.

seandenty and buddy could compare to Jerry Springer in making entertainment

The latest? Does he have any books after Magus of Java and Nei Kung? Im reading Magus of Java now and enjoy it a lot! Its very well written and contains a lot of entertaining stories. And also a lot of theory. To me its a good intoduction to taoist alchemy, although John Chang say he dosent consider himself a taoist. He have never read Tao Te Ching, but thinks Lao Tzu is a very wise person!

Im not so shure about the connection between the two, but developement through the levels are seen in almost every school of spirituality, and if I remember correctly Aurobindo has also mapped out the higher levels, so has Gurudas and a lot of other teachers. They are just calling the levels different names. The way they are presented in Spiral Dynamics, which Ken Wilbers uses, is nothing new. Im not shure if Ken Wilber presents anything new at all, he just has a wonderful way, and the intellect needed, to integrate all the different points of view. And all that without denying anything, just integrating. I read in a book critizising Andrew Cohens methods that his connection to Ken Wilber is a part of Cohens marketing plan. Its a nice trick. I guess Cohen gets a lot of people to look into his own stuff just because they see his name in relation to Ken Wilber. I did it too, but couldnt see anything special. Yea, its proof of the pudding.

I did yoga for hips for about three months, then I started doing just the first strech, called sleeping pigeon or something, before doing full lotus. And I did that for a few months. Now I dont need to strech anymore. I just spend some time, 5-10 min to relax my hips and knees sitting cross-legged, and then I get into full lotus. I used half a year with streching and practicepracticepractice every day before full lotus got comfortable.