sheng zhen

Quiet breathing listening to silence. Very simple, but its my favorite.

I feel wind blowing through my body when in full lotus.

I guess its a little of both. First, to get into it in the first place you really need to build flexibility. But then, to STAY in full lotus you need to work on the energy issue. When I loose focus and dont meditate while in full lotus my legs start to hurt right away. But when I relax and just do my meditation I can sit longer. I dont use innocent young maidens though. Maby I should? Its a little challenging to my ethics...dont think I ever will be able to suck the yin out of them...sounds horrible...poore little girls...

Put up or shut up: hehe, Im still working on it. I do full lotus but cant stay in it for long. Sometimes longer than others though. It goes up and down. But I still need to warm up first. I totally understand and appreciate your reminders on full lotus. There is nothing like it...

Rent-a-Samurai, the real deal Kung Fu Dunk: http://www.dagbladet.no/tv/index.html?clipid=25654 (its in Norwegian, but you get the message anyway)

I'm not shure if you already have bumped into this guy in your search, but I guess it is just what your looking for. Books and stuff you can order. http://www.daoistmagic.com/ There was a thread here on taobums not long ago about him. Ive been a little into western magic many years ago. Alistair Crowley and the like. Fun stuff, but also pretty dangerous to play around with if you are not aware of the more subtle realms. I have several friends who suffer from nightmares and generally bad sleep and mood-problems. Typical of thoughtless experimentation with invocation of spirits and energies they have no foundation to deal with. Im not shure if its the same with daoist magick, but westen occultism is not always the safe way

HAHAHAHA

Yea, your right. My point with my rambling was to disarm the belief that it is possible to die from meditaton by doing it home alone or by going deep enough. Ive heard from many people that they get afraid when they enter the meditative state and "loose themselves". This is ofcourse connected to the fear of dying. But I dont think this has anything to do with the real death-process explained by Wang LiPing. And I think that peoples subjective experience of going deep in meditation dosent nessecarily connect with the true decrease in brainwaves. But this is true only for beginners. This thread is for the experienced. I am sorry I hijaked this thread with my misunderstanding... got a little lost and blind in my own agenda. Carry on with your interesting links!

Yes, it is only a far out theory. You know, many people dont even get to alpha-level because they get afraid of loosing themselves to the void. To believe that it is possible to die from meditation is really just far out theory and dosent happen. Unless one has some aid like magical pills or poison, but then again it is not meditation that kills you.

I knew this statment would come in this thread! I wrote something about it but erased in my other post. No you cant die. You can try! but you wont be able to do it. Not even if you go into delta-wave levels of meditation. The bodys instinct of survival is too strong. You might THINK it is possible, but in real life it simply is not possible to kill yourself by doing meditation. You might have fear of dying when you do deep meditation, but that is not the same thing as really doing it. You might feel like "if I go deeper now Ill die", but in reality you wont. It is just fear, not real. This is the same as the illusion that you might loose your body if you go to far or too deep in astral travel. It is simply not possible. It is created by fear of loosing one self, but it is not the same thing as really doing it. When I was a kid me and my friends held our breath till we faded to get near death experiences. We where gone mabe 30 seconds, but to us it felt like ages. We went through dream-like journeys that seemed to last forever, or saw ourselves from above and things like that. But we never died! we fainted! After a while we all got such a bad headache that we decided to stop it. If you believe that deep meditation is the same as dying, then you really dont need to be very expereinced to die, hahaha. But I think there is a lot more to what Wang Li Ping experienced than just deep meditation...

It sounds like it is exptremely risky, especially if you try to do it with some aid like pills or anything. From what I read on the foundation forum that Wang Li Ping was carefully looked over by his masters who actually was a little afraid he wouldnt make it. They also worked very hard to guard him from external influences like ghosts and the like. I also think he ate a pill that induced the experience, isnt that right? My guess is that the masters would say "do not try this at home" Maby you could write a little synopsis of how this process was explained in the book? I havent read it yet...

Ive been looking for information on Prof. Pang He Ming on the internet, but it is not much out there, even though he has a very popular qigong form that is represented in almost every country in both west and east. Does anybody know anything about this guy other than what is found on every Zhineng gong site? Or has anybody gone through his lectures? Using Yishi He seems to be a very interesting and popular who has manged to keep his integrity intact all the way.

hahaha, no its not impressive I see your point...thanks. But Pang Ming is still an interesting guy though.

Really? But what about the hospitals in china healing cancer with only zhineng gong? Maby you learned it from someone who couldnt do it properly? I dont know. I tried a little zhineng gong from what they wrote one the malaysian site. It was very little, and probably very wrong, but still I felt a very good effect on the whole body. Maby not so much qi- or spiritual effects, but I noticed my whole body was a lot more relaxed, and my neck-pain got a little better. A money form of qigong could sound nice though. A form of qigong cultvation my money

I think the whole thing is a lecture on xing sheng zhuang. There is also links that take you to other lectures. Lots of videos out there in china!

Here is a lecture from Prof. Pang Ming. I really need to learn chinese... Pang Ming

Thanks! But Ive seen this site. I guess Ive seen every site that is written in english, french, dutch, german, norwegian, swedish, etc. But they all say the same things. I havent been through the chinese sites through. Maby there is more information there? Need to learn chinese first so it might take me a few years...

...and hallucinating or dead Science has actually confirmed that meditation gives us better circulation especially in the periferal parts, better oxygen uptake, better metabolism, more blood through the brain, etc. etc. We need less air, but the air we get is used a lot better in meditation than not. EVERYTHING in the body works better when we are meditating. If a scientist or doctor says otherwise it is just because he is not to up to date with the research he relies on If the science community, the doctors and health authorities has really been up to date with the research being done on meditation, they would have more than enough documentation to make it a mandatory part of ANY treatment.

I agree with you. I think religion is harmful. Not because of the religion, but because of all the projection done by the religious. They have a need to make everyone else join their religion. And that creates conflicts. But I also think we need to give the religious some slack. They dont know any better and do as good as they can. I like Ken Wilbers explanation of human developement: We have the prepersonal, personal and transpersonal stages. Most people in the world are at the prepersonal and personal levels. In relation to religion we have the prepersonal which is where belief and dogma is dominant. The personal is where doubt and denial is dominant. And the transpersonal is where both dogma and doubt is transcended and personal experience is dominant. And if we take reincarnation as a fact, if we dont identify ourselves as prepersonal or personal, we certainly must admit we have been there! So I think we need to accept that things are what they are, and notice that in the longer perspectives, it really isnt hurting us. Its just something we grow out of.

Dont think the book said anything about holding it in the dan tian. It just said to hold the breath.

K3 is about absorbing the mist from a waterfall, right? So negative ions really have some relevance here, even though it is "just" a visualization.

I did level 2 for about one month before I dropped out of practicing kunlun. That was after doing level 1 for about 4 months. Level 2 felt great! It really lifts the practice to a whole new level. But it was hard. And it was very difficult to know if I did it correctly based on the descrption in the book. I did write to Mantra but didnt get an answer. Guess it got lost in all the level 1 questions. I dont mind. Max said in the book that most people drop out here, but that their curiosity gets them started again after a while. I guess Im one of those

Speaking of negative ions, has anyone done sweatlodge? There you get lots of negative ions and its very cleansing to the whole body. You get a little wired in the head aswell and you recieve visions and opening experiences, things like that. Its a lot of fun! Negative ions are great!

I say: sugar and oil. ...with a touch of karma.

I have already attained carbon-body